laying your cue on the table and lifting up the shaft to strike the cue ball....

justadub

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Yes, I know it's an old manuever. It came up this past weekend, and I was told by the person running things that it was legal.

I clearly remember reading here that it was not a legal shot. I know I read about it here at one point in the last year or so. Now my curiosity is bugging me, and I'd like to find the reference. I don't even know what to call that particular "shot", so utilizing the search function won't help.

My guess is that it was in reference to BCApl. (I wasn't playing in a BCA event, regardless). Anyone have some suggestions for me, so that I can at least get it straight in my mind? At this point it certainly doesn't matter, it's more a matter of me putting it in proper perspective.

Thanks
 
There is an official definition of 'legal stroke' somewhere.

Somewhere in that definition there has to be a 'forward movement' included in the wording.

Lifting or dropping the cue tip to make contact with the cue ball IMO, shouldn't be considered a 'legal' stroke.

But, if the Ruling orgs cannot produce the rule or even a definition, why would anyone say this is illegal? Different, yes, but illegal NO.

Just my Opinion.
 
justadub said:
Yes, I know it's an old manuever. It came up this past weekend, and I was told by the person running things that it was legal.

I clearly remember reading here that it was not a legal shot. I know I read about it here at one point in the last year or so. Now my curiosity is bugging me, and I'd like to find the reference. I don't even know what to call that particular "shot", so utilizing the search function won't help.

My guess is that it was in reference to BCApl. (I wasn't playing in a BCA event, regardless). Anyone have some suggestions for me, so that I can at least get it straight in my mind? At this point it certainly doesn't matter, it's more a matter of me putting it in proper perspective.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Good question. I have heard it both ways, legal and not. I have never done it because of the problems it would cause, plus I dont really care for it.
 
DaveK said:
http://www.playbca.com/Leagues/Rules/GeneralRules.aspx

Diagram 5 – Illegal Stroke by Lifting or Brushing with the Cue Tip

Dave
Click to expand...
:p

Thanks. I knew I had read something regarding this at one point or another, I just couldn't recall the context. Nice to know I'm not totally losing it.

To everyone else, I realize its a matter of jurisdiction, so to speak. I hadn't seen it done or even talked about in our local scenario, and I knew it wasn't legal in some situation. I'm not even interested in debating its worth, or whether it should be a legal shot or not. I just couldn't remember... Getting old.
 
and btw...I had heard the bump attributed to Parica, but I have a vid of him playing Schmidt and it it Schmidt who uses the bump.

Izzzz confused- Parica acted like Schmidt was on the moon.
 
Kelly Fisher shows this shot on a regular basis to locals. She swears up and down it's a perfectly legally executed shot. I tend to disagree, but I suppose the rules differ just enough that is indeed a legal shot sometimes....sometimes not.
You can always tell when she has shared this shot, you will see numerous attempts at it on league night. ;)

Steve H.
 
This laying a cue on a table and picking it up happened in a Miz Senior
tournament.
Scott Smith called it a foul.....I agree.

I think it should always be called a foul...I'm not going for the
'bar rules' argument.
 
sjharr said:
Kelly Fisher shows this shot on a regular basis to locals. She swears up and down it's a perfectly legally executed shot. I tend to disagree, but I suppose the rules differ just enough that is indeed a legal shot sometimes....sometimes not.
You can always tell when she has shared this shot, you will see numerous attempts at it on league night. ;)

Steve H.
Click to expand...

I would be highly surprised to see her get away with it in a WPBA event, but maybe it's legal under their rules.
 
i would say its legal cause your tip is touching the cb no matter if its going forward or not longs the cb don.t hop on the stick
 
UP illegal DOWN legal ???

Just wondering from everything I've just read some Masse shots would not be legal then. Because according to the statements just made a shot only starts with a forward motion of the tip hitting the cue ball. If bringing the tip up off the table does not constitute a forward motion then conversely bringing the tip down from above shouldn't either. Just saying I know that masse shots are legal and I like them where as the laying of the stick on the table thing doesn't sit well with me.
 
itsfroze said:
Just wondering from everything I've just read some Masse shots would not be legal then. Because according to the statements just made a shot only starts with a forward motion of the tip hitting the cue ball.
Click to expand...

Forward is "along the direction of the cue stick". So, if the cue stick is vertical for a massé shot, the shot begins as the stick comes down towards the bed of the table and the cue tip makes contact with the CB.

This prevents placing the tip under the equator of the CB and then bringing the tip upwards to scoot the CB forward by lifting the front of the cue or dropping the back of the cue and using a finger as a fulcrum. (This is a legal shot in league APA for some reason/rational.)
 
Shot ???

I think it was the next to last year at dcc at ex-west when efren pulled that shot in a match. Afterwards bob jewett said it was an illegal shot because it was not a foward stroke. I'm sure it was posted on az.
 
Along the same lines...is the intentional miscue legal? Forward motion of the cue but skimming over the top of the CB
 
About the forward motion rule, you could always rest the butt of the cue on a mechanical bridge so that the cue tip is technically moving forward when it is hitting the cue ball. If the center of the radius that the cue forms is above the point that the tip contacts the cue ball, the cue tip will inevitably be moving forward during contact (although only very slightly). You would probably have to figure out some way to prevent the cue from slipping off of the bridge when you actually do the shot.

Of course, you would also probably have a lot of arguing to do with your opponent and the tournament director, but you would technically be correct according to the rules.
 
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mjantti said:
Intentional miscueing is always a foul.
Click to expand...
Even better, it is considered unsportsmanlike conduct:
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately​
.
 
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