League players are strange people

pogmothoin said:
There are many threads on here that bemoan the death of pool and what can be done to save it. Yet whenever a thread about leagues come up people tend to kill them on here.

From where I sit leagues seem to be pretty successful. Once, twice, three times a week many people go to their local bar or pool hall and plunk down their cash to have some fun.

People are just messed up no matter what the sport. You have your cheaters and whiners, you have some really terrible players, you have some very good players but overall what you see is a microcosm of our society.

I think that leagues, whether it be APA, NAPA, TAP or any of the others, deserve the support of the top level players and anyone interested in seeing pool succeed. It's where the masses are, the very market that needs to be engaged for the industry to grow.
Click to expand...

I'll be yet another that likes this post.

I started in APA right about 9 years ago and still play in it. It's my hobby after work and if I'm not having fun, I'd just as soon find something else to do. That's how I expect my teammates to be as well. My current team likes to win, too, but they're also aware that they're just there to have fun and play pool.

Our LO's area had some pretty good finishes in this year's singles/doubles tournament. I know most of them and that their s/l's are accurate. I also know a few people that play BCA with the attitude that they're too good for APA.. not many are willing to put up the cash against an APA player. Some of the best in our area also play APA in one format or another.

Anything will improve your game if you go about it correctly - APA certainly improved mine.
 
poolguy4u said:
You obviously are on the wrong team. You need to play on a team that don't want to win money and don't want to go to Vegas. You need to play on a team that don't mind being in last place.

You should get off that team right away. All teams that win money and win in Vegas have at least two players that are under handicapped. On these teams, players need to be a team player and keep their handicap as low as possible.

It is a real art form to keep your handicap down and win without people noticing. You can call it cheating or sandbagging if you want, but it's not all for just a trophy like you say. It's about winning some cash and going on vacation in Vegas. People shoot all year around for this.

If you don't care about winning cash or a trip you should play in a bar league where there is a trophy and banquet at the end of the season. APA, TAP, and other handicap leagues is all about winning money and trips. You are fooled if you think otherwise.

If you don't know this by now...well maybe you never will. Paying $7 dollars a week plus $20 for a yearly membership, it's nice to get something back for your investment.

Be a team player and keep you handicap down and win at the same time. You need to think about the rest of your team or don't play in a team event.
Click to expand...

This is why we cant have nice things :p

And its this specific attitude that gives the APA the reputation it has.

For better and for worse. Fortunately, not everyone feels this way, and many have integrity. I would far rather pay my own way to Vegas than have to cheat to get there.
 
DAVE_M said:
I did report him about half way through the session. Nothing that I know of was done. I told him it didn't fly with me. He pulled me to the side one night and said I need to sandbag or I'm off the team, that's when I reported him.

I'm not the best 8-ball player by far, but I'm not an SL3 or SL4 either. I'm currently an SL5, but the session is over, so it had no effect. The APA handicap system seems to do it's job. I understand why I was ranked low in the beginning, new guy, new town... makes sense.
Click to expand...

Oh my bad. Well you did the right thing. Sucks nothing came of it. Hopefully the new team is cooler.

We've had multiple players on our team go up a rank just from people writing in,
and they weren't even sandbagging. Sometimes the computer just gets it wrong.
And of course sometimes people overreact... "omg he made 3 hard shots? That's not a 4!!!!"

A few LO's do keep a handle on it. But it's gotta be clear cut and obvious because
they field lots of complaints from sore losers who think one good night =
the player has been laying down his whole life.

And they always hear crying if they move someone up manually even if
(like in our case) the person probably was underranked.
 
I had the same experience. Started shootin APA 11 years ago with my girlfriend but only played cash before that. When the captain saw I could shoot well he tried to talk me into sandbagging. Long story short I became a 7 in 8 ball and a 8 in nine ball. Switched toVnea and never looked back. Sandbagging in any league will never make you a better player obviously and my goal has to always become the best player I could.
 
Ah, the truth comes out, in the first few posts. It is okay to hustle (sandbag) for money, but not for league play.
Very funny.

The great part of league play, is that it gets a lot of new players in the game. They have the potential to have a lot of fun, meet a lot of other good people who play well, and to learn a lot.
The bad part of league, APA in particular, is that as you learn to play, you boost yourself out of competition. Since there is a handicap points system and a point system that can't be exceeded, if your team gets better, they will eventually not be able to stay under the points system. This is a great business plan, and APA is a business. To survive, better players have to break off, and form their own teams, while new inexperienced players are brought in to meet the numbers. In a perfect World, teams will keep core players in three slots, and bring in bottom players to fill the gaps. Unfortunately if you teach those players to actually play, they quickly move up and the teams can't field 5 players, frequently at playoff time. No subs or replacements, so it's over for your team.
What's the answer?
Well, some people try to make a career out of the APA, and that requires sandbagging. It's simply a matter of survival.
The better answer, is to support the leagues like APA, and encourage new players to join, and learn as much as they can. Let them know, that there will be a time to leave. You can only stay until you reach the top tier. It is then time to move on, so you can improve. The alternative it to sandbag, which will not help your game as much as hurt your integrity.
I had a great time in the APA when I started out. I moved up to a 7 in 8-Ball, started a team, and we won the league. Did crappy in the last playoff game for a trip to Vegas, and then I turned to team over to the next guy, and moved on.
Now I'm an old guy, I 'm back in the APA because I have cataracts, can't play consistently anymore, and am stuck as a 5 in 8-Ball, and a 6 in 9-Ball. Even though I can't do what I have to, to be top ranked anymore, doesn't mean I can't help the young players. I never hide my disdain for sandbagging, and I fully expect those I help, to move up in the ranks. You can bad mouth APA all you want, but it has a place in the pool world, if you invest your time, for the good of pool, instead of just running your mouth. It sickens me to see some of these posts about the APA, because it does have a huge place in the pool world, bringing in, and teaching new players. Don't blame the whole concept because of a few losers that try to beat the system. In reality, most of those guys are only fooling themselves, and don't play well enough to be able to effectively sandbag anyway.
 
Last edited:
poolguy4u said:
You obviously are on the wrong team. You need to play on a team that don't want to win money and don't want to go to Vegas. You need to play on a team that don't mind being in last place.

You should get off that team right away. All teams that win money and win in Vegas have at least two players that are under handicapped. On these teams, players need to be a team player and keep their handicap as low as possible.

It is a real art form to keep your handicap down and win without people noticing. You can call it cheating or sandbagging if you want, but it's not all for just a trophy like you say. It's about winning some cash and going on vacation in Vegas. People shoot all year around for this.

If you don't care about winning cash or a trip you should play in a bar league where there is a trophy and banquet at the end of the season. APA, TAP, and other handicap leagues is all about winning money and trips. You are fooled if you think otherwise.

If you don't know this by now...well maybe you never will. Paying $7 dollars a week plus $20 for a yearly membership, it's nice to get something back for your investment.

Be a team player and keep you handicap down and win at the same time. You need to think about the rest of your team or don't play in a team event.
Click to expand...
Winning is good, but it does not mean someone shall lose their integrity in order to win.

In my opinion the public has a bad perception of pool because of stories like this. When I tell someone I am playing pool, the first I hear is "Oh, you are a hustler, a pool shark! I need to be careful with you!". Even if they joke, this is the image people have about pool. They view pool as a gambling playground where people try to con each other and grab a quick buck.

Fortunately, not all teams are like that.
 
poolguy4u said:
You should get off that team right away. All teams that win money and win in Vegas have at least two players that are under handicapped. On these teams, players need to be a team player and keep their handicap as low as possible.
Click to expand...

I am not saying there is no sandbagging in the APA leagues I play in. I do have to agree that a winning team does need players under handicapped. But low level players moving up in hdcp will alway be at some point where they are under handicapped, before being raised. Keep your 7, 8s and 9s. Find a couple of 2s or 3s that really takes an interest in pool, help them they when you can. If lucky they will be peaking at their current skill level when the money is down.
 
I must be blessed

Not much choice to play pool in my area in Rockland County N.Y. Only one pool room left. APA league play or play yourself. the league here has been around a long time with many of the same players. I only play 1 nite a week. 16 teams on that nite in 8 ball. league play however is 5 nites a week. I would play more but for work and family.
good thing is since there is so much familarity amongst the players no one can get away with sandbagging.
Everyone plays to win and puts their best game on.
Have quite a few teams making it to Vegas every year as well.
Guess I am lucky.
 
Yep. As in life, there are going to be people who have absolutely no business interacting with others. Some people just aren't built to socialize, the kind of people that work in HAZMAT suits or lone outposts monitoring equipment. It's not their fault... its just the way they are. They attempt to integrate into society mid-way through their lives thinking that something will change or that they can sneak their character / emotional failings past a few dozen people in the real world. (things are goona be different, I can feel it.)

Best thing to do is to recognize these people for what they are (and will continue to be) and move on. Smile, waive and enjoy your game. Secure in the knowledge that "There, but for the grace of God (and genetics), go I".
 
krupa said:
Because league experiences vary based on the people in it, I'm going to confine my comments to the structure...

I really like my NAPA league.

We play no-limit (skill-wise) lagger's choice so on any given week, you may play 8, 9 or 10 ball. The rules are mostly BCA with a couple of small tweaks (e.g., 9-ball is slop, but you do have to call the 9 except on the break.). Also, there are only three matches a week (5-man teams) so we start about 6:30 and are done by 9.

We don't have free trips to Vegas but there are a lot of ways to qualify for the National tournament. I haven't been to it yet (I'm going for the first time this year) but I've heard good things about it from some friends who have.
Click to expand...

i am with you about napa. i play apa twice a week and napa once a week. i have also played bcapl a few years ago. in my opinion napa is the best by far.

i played in the napa nationals last year and have to say it was the best ran tournament i have ever played in.

i am qualified for next years nationals which will be held in atlanta and hope to go.

we also play laggers choice except we have 5 matches.
 
JoeyA said:
Does anyone have amy thoughts on which league to start them in (AND WHY)?

JoeyA
Click to expand...


Start your Son in the APA Masters where the races are even. Otherwise have him try a scratch BCA league.

He will appreciate the game more if he plays in a non handicapped league. Leave the handicapping to when he matches up.
 
APA 8-ball is a league targeted at beginners and intermediates. Sandbagging in a beginner league is like the school bully who got left back in the 7th grade a few times. Yes, you're physically bigger than the incoming 6th graders, but kids your age are getting ready for high school.

In my neck of the woods, an SL7 is likely a C+ or higher level player. If you're higher than a C+, there is no need to sandbag, because the handicap scale works in your favor because the league can't raise your handicap any higher than a 7. I have a player on my double jeopardy night who is a SL7 in 8-ball, and SL8 in 9-ball. Everytime he wins in 8-ball, I keep reminding him of that. In APA 9-ball where he can still be raise, we put him out sparingly. :-)
 
ctyhntr said:
APA 8-ball is a league targeted at beginners and intermediates. Sandbagging in a beginner league is like the school bully who got left back in the 7th grade a few times. Yes, you're physically bigger than the incoming 6th graders, but kids your age are getting ready for high school.

In my neck of the woods, an SL7 is likely a C+ or higher level player. If you're higher than a C+, there is no need to sandbag, because the handicap scale works in your favor because the league can't raise your handicap any higher than a 7. I have a player on my double jeopardy night who is a SL7 in 8-ball, and SL8 in 9-ball. Everytime he wins in 8-ball, I keep reminding him of that. In APA 9-ball where he can still be raise, we put him out sparingly. :-)
Click to expand...

i have an 8 that went up to a 9 a few weeks ago.... thankfully my 2 went down to a 1 or i would be hurting to fit my 9 in .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top