learning position play

fasted71465 said:
Loose money to better players and pay attention when they are at the table. When the two of you get to know each other and after his turn is over ask him how he got on so and so ball. If he won't help find someone else to give your money to.
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Or better yet, watch two good players battle each other. You will be more likely to see their full speed, and you will probably learn more without the distraction of watching your money disappear. ;)

Aaron
 
Once you have an understanding of where the CB will travel after contacting the OB and rail(s) the you can start to manipulate those paths with vertical and horizontal spins so the CB travels along the line of the next shot, and not accross it. This almost completely takes speed out of the equation and you can sometimes over run on a shot by 3ft and still have perfect shape for the next shot. Watch the pros, that's why they never seem to get out of position ;)

Another good tip, which others have mention is watching a match on Youtube and pause after the break. Set the balls up as close to this as you can then try run out, then watch the pros version then try it their way. Notice how much easier it is to run out. Also film your self, watch it back and you will quickly realise what you could have done differently.

Finally you need to learn patterns to get you back to center table. This comes in handy when you can't get perfect position on your next shot, but having a shot from center table will either give you a chance of making a ball or leave you with the chance to play a telling safety. I can't stress this enough...ALWAYS pick a spot on the table (CB sized) where you want the CB to stop and don't just play for an area, regardless of how easy or difficult this may be, you will suprise your self how often you land on the specific spot.

Good Luck,
 
There are many facets of position play, some great posts already. For every general principle or pattern there can be an exception as well. The key is learning the general patterns and principles, working on speed control, planning ahead, and knowing when you need to concentrate a little harder or be a little more precise, or when you need to violate one of the standard principles and get a little creative.

I think Phil Capelle's books do a great job at explaining and diagramming these concepts. His first book (Play Your Best Pool) has sections for all the games and a general section on position play, I remember reading it back in the day and he does a nice job of talking through the principles, diagramming the zones, etc. If you play more 8 or 9 ball you could also get the specific 8 or 9 ball book, they both contain great position info as well but expanded and tailored to those specific games.

Scott
 
Target pool is great. The target itself was 20" x 20", consisting of the center (5 pts), the inner circle (3 pts), then the outer circle (2 pts). There was also a 1pt consolation prize for landing on the square bits of the target sticking out of the circle, but it didn't make much sense.

I think priority one for anyone wanting to learn position play is to actually figure how to effectively
draw, follow, and spin the ball. There's no point in saying "the best way to play position here is to draw
back 4 feet" if you can only draw a ball 2 feet, or draw very inconsistently.

Spinning off the rails when doing rail cuts also needs lots of practice, because there's
a sweet spot for the speed vs. the spin. Too much speed and the spin doesn't grab the rail.
Too little and the ball doesn't travel far enough to reach the intended area.
And how much action you get from the CB depends on how fat or thin you hit the OB.

Gotta first know what's possible and how to do it reliably, before worrying about position drills and such.
 
Learn how to hit exactly the right amount of the cue ball you want to.......

semoquer said:
What's the best way to learn how to play better position? Drills? Shooting the same shot over and over?
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Position play can be a number of things combined.

But if you don't hit the exact amount of the object ball you want the cue ball will not go where you want it to go.

Position is controlled allot by aiming correctly.

If you can't aim correctly you can't adjust properly for the english because you don't have the exact aim to start off with.

Like I said many things are involved but you first have to aim Perfectly...........

Good Luck gene
 
semoquer said:
What's the best way to learn how to play better position? Drills? Shooting the same shot over and over?
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According to the game your practicing for. With rotation I believe in "start with 3 balls" method until you get 10 times. Don't move up a ball until you succeed . For 8b you will need to watch matches and get yourself an instructional DVD that covers it. I think you can be taught to play good 8b up to certain level ...... Or at least quicker improvement than someone explaining how to run rotation.
I don't know your skill level, Bob Jewett might check in. Dr Dave has a ton of good information also. Maybe someone will post a link
This is my thoughts on it anyway
 
semoquer said:
What's the best way to learn how to play better position? Drills? Shooting the same shot over and over?
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For anyone who hates instruction, hates reading books, hates youtube, and wants to learn things the old fashioned way, what helped me is: throwing 3 balls randomly on the table, taking BIH and running them in order (aka 3 ball ghost).
Plan your position play before placing the CB on the table. If you dont make all 3, set it up the exact same way and repeat as many times as necessary until you make all 3. (then move on to a new random 3 ball set up).

Its almost impossible to do this for more than 1 hour and not learn A LOT about position play.
 
peteypooldude said:
... Dr Dave has a ton of good information also. Maybe someone will post a link
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Here is a good approach for learning position play:

First learn and practice all of the concepts and principles on the position play resource page.

Then practice all of the drills demonstrated on the drills for practicing cue ball control and position play resource page.

Then use the Billiard University (BU) playing-ability exams as a regular pool "workout" to identify your strengths and weaknesses and to monitor your improvement over time.

Regards,
Dave
 
You want to know the real way, senoquer?
Play lots, and lots of pool, and then play lots, and lots more.
Good position play comes from good shot memory. You can't develop a good shot memory by banging drills because they don't come up in the games you play. Besides, they'll bore the hell out of you and you'll quit them, anyway.
Watch the very best players in your local pool room and notice how effortlessly whitey falls into position for the next shot. Were you to ask one of them how he was able to gain such good ball control he'd probably say something like: "I don't know. I've been doing it so long it just happens."
Forget taking tests. Play pool, and lots of it. :smile:
 
Sounds a bit strange, but start talking to your self (not out loud of course) so you become avare of what you are doing and not just relying on luck.
Stuff like:
Ok I`m gonna do 8 in the side, soft stop shot, 15 left corner pocket, medium follow through and come up for position on the 7 etc.
If you really become avare of how you are playing and really take the time to have a "dialog" with yourself.
Allow room for experimenting with english, draw etc.
Straight pool is great for this, sometimes you get a difficult break shot and more often than not, there is many ways to solve the problem, typically the break ball is glued to the side cushion and you can get from the break ball to the pack in many different ways.
 
If you could take ball in hand, that's where you want to learn to play shape too, and looking ahead at least two balls, three is much better.
 
Learning stun/stop shots from diff angles and speeds will get you 50% there. Learn the rails with just the CB first, then off a ball. Table speed is the hardest to get right, although now a days almost all tables play the same...like playing on ice. Johnnyt
 
Tramp Steamer said:
You want to know the real way, senoquer?
Play lots, and lots of pool, and then play lots, and lots more.
Good position play comes from good shot memory. You can't develop a good shot memory by banging drills because they don't come up in the games you play. Besides, they'll bore the hell out of you and you'll quit them, anyway.
Watch the very best players in your local pool room and notice how effortlessly whitey falls into position for the next shot. Were you to ask one of them how he was able to gain such good ball control he'd probably say something like: "I don't know. I've been doing it so long it just happens."
Forget taking tests. Play pool, and lots of it. :smile:
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Oh, Tramp, you have the wrong attitude about drills! Yes, if you are just banging drills, they won't help you unless that exact shot comes up in a game, which is not too likely. But, doing drills is NOT just about making that shot and getting position off that shot. Drills are about learning what it takes to make the shot, and learning what happens with the cb after making the shot.

If you learn those two things only, then you are miles ahead. The idea is to learn, not just perform. Not just learning that 1+1=2, but leaning how to come up with the number 3 from what you have learned. Recognizing that if 1+1=2, then it stands to reason that 1+2=3, and 3-1=2 or 3-2= 1. When you start doing that, whole new worlds are open to you.

And, don't underestimate the power of reference shots, or as Ekkert calls them, reference lines. They fall under the premise of knowing one thing, and being able to extrapolate what you need from what you do know.

Drills can be like having a car to go cross country utilizing only known land marks, or having a map so you know where you are actually going. Make drills your map, not known landmarks.

And, you may not like this, but to your comment about "forget taking tests", that's for people that don't want to face where they really are. And, after facing their weaknesses, doing something about them.
 
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Neil said:
Oh, Tramp, you have the wrong attitude about drills! Yes, if you are just banging drills, they won't help you unless that exact shot comes up in a game, which is not too likely. But, doing drills is NOT just about making that shot and getting position off that shot. Drills are about learning what it takes to make the shot, and learning what happens with the cb after making the shot.
If you learn those two things only, then you are miles ahead. The idea is to learn, not just perform. Not just learning that 1+1=2, but leaning how to come up with the number 3 from what you have learned. Recognizing that if 1+1=2, then it stands to reason that 1+2=3, and 3-1=2 or 3-2= 1. When you start doing that, whole new worlds are open to you.
And, don't underestimate the power of reference shots, or as Ekkert calls them, reference lines. They fall under the premise of knowing one thing, and being able to extrapolate what you need from what you do know.
Drills can be like having a car to go cross country utilizing only known land marks, or having a map so you know where you are actually going. Make drills your map, not known landmarks.
And, you may not like this, but to your comment about "forget taking tests", that's for people that don't want to face where they really are. And, after facing their weaknesses, doing something about them.
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Oh, Neil.
How many players, and I mean good players, do you see around your pool room doing drills? None, right? That's because it's an absolute waste of time. They know it, I know it, and you should know it.
1+1=2? 6+9=69? WTF? This is your idea of opening whole new worlds in pool play?
Ask any A (or higher) player how he got to be an A (or higher) player and he'll tell you it's because he's played a zillion, or more games of pool. Ask any C player how they think they will become an A player and they'll tell you they'll need to play a zillion games of pool.
Bangers do not count in this discussion. :smile:
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Oh, Neil.
How many players, and I mean good players, do you see around your pool room doing drills? None, right? That's because it's an absolute waste of time. They know it, I know it, and you should know it.
1+1=2? 6+9=69? WTF? This is your idea of opening whole new worlds in pool play?
Ask any A (or higher) player how he got to be an A (or higher) player and he'll tell you it's because he's played a zillion, or more games of pool. Ask any C player how they think they will become an A player and they'll tell you they'll need to play a zillion games of pool.
Bangers do not count in this discussion. :smile:
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Sorry to say, but the attitude you have is exactly why so many don't get any better. They can hit a million balls and still not figure out the obvious because they think each shot is different from any other.
 
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