Hi all. I'm interested in hearing from people who have successfully leased commercial space for use as a private billiards club. Is there anything special you have to do to do this? Any common roadblocks or problems one should expect to run into? I'm a total newbie on this subject, so any and all advice is welcome. Thanks.
Leasing commercial space for private billiards club
- Thread starter 1pktfool
- Start date
Right, but this would be for a very small private club, like 1-3 tables. Something like $1000/month rent, breaking down to $60/month for about 20 members to cover rent and overhead. I would imagine the 2 most difficult issues would be finding the space to rent and then finding loyal trustworthy members to pay dues every month, but it'd be great to hear from people that know more about doing something like this (either successfully or not) firsthand.
if you can rent a climate controlled wearhouse, if its not to far out of the way, you get far less attention.
putting a private club in a retail area makes no sence what so ever, your paying extra $$$ for visability you dont want, more code enforcement BS. it will be problematic from day one,
In a good climate controlled wherahouse you can find one with a shower, office, apt built inside it, for your personal use as well. That wont ever happen in a strip center,
Get good PTZ cameras and a DVR that will keep everyone in line, so if something goes bad you have them on film, and a zero tollerance policy, outside cameras too. Members must agree to sign a personal agreement to pay all costs of damage they cause to the club in the event of a incodent, there is alot of boiler plate agreements online that you can modify to fit your specific biz.
but most importantly stay away from shopping centers.
I have more ideas, but have to go right now.
oh yeah forget selling anything, let them bring their own stuff to eat and drink, and they have to clean up or they are gone, its self policing, it will work just fine, if they dont you dont want them anyways. trying to sell things opens up a can of worms too,
putting a private club in a retail area makes no sence what so ever, your paying extra $$$ for visability you dont want, more code enforcement BS. it will be problematic from day one,
In a good climate controlled wherahouse you can find one with a shower, office, apt built inside it, for your personal use as well. That wont ever happen in a strip center,
Get good PTZ cameras and a DVR that will keep everyone in line, so if something goes bad you have them on film, and a zero tollerance policy, outside cameras too. Members must agree to sign a personal agreement to pay all costs of damage they cause to the club in the event of a incodent, there is alot of boiler plate agreements online that you can modify to fit your specific biz.
but most importantly stay away from shopping centers.
I have more ideas, but have to go right now.
oh yeah forget selling anything, let them bring their own stuff to eat and drink, and they have to clean up or they are gone, its self policing, it will work just fine, if they dont you dont want them anyways. trying to sell things opens up a can of worms too,
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Thanks for the replies, especially Fatboy's. This would be near the Boston area, so I think warehouse space will be tough to find, although it's an interesting idea. To be honest, any decent space will be hard to find or too much $$$. I certainly agree that good retail space is not something worth paying for as the visibility and high traffic is not something we'd want or need. I was hoping to find more of an 'odd' commercial/office space, like a basement, that wouldn't fit most other people's/business's needs. This may never happen, and I'm not going to rush into anything, but I have just gotten sick of not having any decent place to play pool/billiards in this city. There are plenty of people with money here, and because real estate is so expensive, most people do not have the room at home for a table, so there should be a good enough market to support at least one real pool hall, but no one wants to open it. Hence, my interest in a private room.
Definitely would not be selling anything in the place, just have drinks and whatnot on the honor system, pay as you go. Camera(s) are a good idea. I know of one club south of here quite a bit that rents a basement space in a little commercial strip. Been there for 10 years or so I think, so they must be doing something right. Of course, I want something closer to Boston, so rent will surely be more $$$, but we'll just have to see what's out there.
I'm hoping this thread will be useful to others interested in opening private clubs, so any and all information is appreciated.
Definitely would not be selling anything in the place, just have drinks and whatnot on the honor system, pay as you go. Camera(s) are a good idea. I know of one club south of here quite a bit that rents a basement space in a little commercial strip. Been there for 10 years or so I think, so they must be doing something right. Of course, I want something closer to Boston, so rent will surely be more $$$, but we'll just have to see what's out there.
I'm hoping this thread will be useful to others interested in opening private clubs, so any and all information is appreciated.
I'm not so sure you are getting all the best advice here. In todays market there should be a glut of space available. I know in Los Angeles, commercials rentals have dropped by near 50%, making space very affordable. I don't think Boston is that much different. Of course to make it pay, you must get people to patronize your establishment. Going totally private might be tough. Fatboy is correct, high visibility space will be too expensive. a free standing building somewhere might fill the bill. You only need a few thousand square feet of usable space.
I think it can be done, if you set up a really nice room with four to eight tables, nice furnishings and make it more of a billiard country club. Billy Incardona tried it in Dallas and lasted less than a year. I think you must sell food and drinks too, both for the convenience of your clientele and for your bottom line. Plus an ATM and any other income producers you can think of. I'd be selling medium to high end billiard equipment as well. It's not a bad idea, but it would take some doing to make it work. It could easily take a year or more to get enough members to make it pay. It's all about word of mouth. You should do some research first and see how many people would be interested that you know.
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Not for me..
All I can say to the idea of a private club is that I would get very bored very quickly playing with the same group of folks over and over. Just not what I go out to a pool hall for. I prefer seeing and playing different folks all the time, just my opinion..
All I can say to the idea of a private club is that I would get very bored very quickly playing with the same group of folks over and over. Just not what I go out to a pool hall for. I prefer seeing and playing different folks all the time, just my opinion..
Thanks for your reply Jay. Yeah, it would be nice to have a place with more tables, and more of a real pool hall, but this is something that would be done on the side, and so I don't have time nor do I necessarily know anything about how to run a pool hall. I also understand that owning the building is better than renting over the long term, but again, this will not work if we need to take out a bank loan to do it. I would also much rather spend my time in a quality pool hall in Boston than have to play in a private club, but there are zero good rooms in Boston right now, so that's not an option. I have a buddy who is considering opening a real pool hall here in Boston, so if he's lurking, hurry up and do it before I do something stupid... 
As for existing private clubs, this place seems like the nuts:
http://www.minneapolisbilliardclub.com/
However, I don't know if they own the space or rent, and if they have some 'angel' investors that either sunk a bunch of money into it up front or continue to help pay the bills on a regular basis. Either way, it sure would be great to have a place like this in Boston.
As for existing private clubs, this place seems like the nuts:
http://www.minneapolisbilliardclub.com/
However, I don't know if they own the space or rent, and if they have some 'angel' investors that either sunk a bunch of money into it up front or continue to help pay the bills on a regular basis. Either way, it sure would be great to have a place like this in Boston.
but this is something that would be done on the side, and so I don't have time nor do I necessarily know anything about how to run a pool hall.
Been looking at myself for about 2 hears up north end of 495. Having been a former pool room owner, I recommend that you not do something like this if you feel like the statement above. The first thing is the sharks will eat you alive. If you don't control EVERYTHING that goes on in your room you are a goner for sure. You have to be willing to chop the eventual card games, make $15 bucks on each pizza you bring in and not let outside people play "the machines". If you are not creative you won't survive. IMO, be prepared to live and survive in the gray area.
That being said, you can do it. You will have some good times but you can never be "one of them". If you have a more affluent clientele that would be the best. But IMHO it could only be pushed as a cigar friendly environment. If it is just playing pool in leagues, without smoking, hell what better place can you do it than a club like the Elks in Billerica. What would they need you for?
Bob
Been looking at myself for about 2 hears up north end of 495. Having been a former pool room owner, I recommend that you not do something like this if you feel like the statement above. The first thing is the sharks will eat you alive. If you don't control EVERYTHING that goes on in your room you are a goner for sure. You have to be willing to chop the eventual card games, make $15 bucks on each pizza you bring in and not let outside people play "the machines". If you are not creative you won't survive. IMO, be prepared to live and survive in the gray area.
That being said, you can do it. You will have some good times but you can never be "one of them". If you have a more affluent clientele that would be the best. But IMHO it could only be pushed as a cigar friendly environment. If it is just playing pool in leagues, without smoking, hell what better place can you do it than a club like the Elks in Billerica. What would they need you for?
Bob
I'm part of a small private club, 15 members. $100 a month/member and there are two gold crown IV's and one heated billiard table. We have a poker room, full kitchen and it's always fully stocked with supplies (toilet paper, water, utensils etc). It's in a commercial building located in a quiet residential area.
It's a great idea, gives players like me who are drill sargeants a place to go to practice and hang out with the guys. The equipment is always perfect, the conditions are great and believe it or not, we rarely run into each other throughout the week except for Friday nights. One thing I've noticed is I haven't been in much action since I started. I go there for about 15 hrs a week and just practice or play with someone, no gambling. No pressure. however I'm not playing well in tournaments like I used to.
Also from a cost perspective, if you plan on playing more than 4-6 hours a week, it's well worth it unless your home room has a good practice pass.
We each get a key and have unlimited access to it. Mostly everyone there has been vouched for by someone, however you are on probation for the first two months, and after that they decide if you can stay. These guys that started it have been there for exactly 10 years. Ironically, there was a fire in the building recently and we've been temporarily displaced. But that's a different story.
Christian
It's a great idea, gives players like me who are drill sargeants a place to go to practice and hang out with the guys. The equipment is always perfect, the conditions are great and believe it or not, we rarely run into each other throughout the week except for Friday nights. One thing I've noticed is I haven't been in much action since I started. I go there for about 15 hrs a week and just practice or play with someone, no gambling. No pressure. however I'm not playing well in tournaments like I used to.
Also from a cost perspective, if you plan on playing more than 4-6 hours a week, it's well worth it unless your home room has a good practice pass.
We each get a key and have unlimited access to it. Mostly everyone there has been vouched for by someone, however you are on probation for the first two months, and after that they decide if you can stay. These guys that started it have been there for exactly 10 years. Ironically, there was a fire in the building recently and we've been temporarily displaced. But that's a different story.
Christian
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I hate to sound negative, but there are pool rooms all over the country closing down, that are being run by people that actually do know the business. It's just that the business is too tough for a small operation to survive. I've owned 2 sucessful poolrooms and a pool bar but I'd never do it again. Way too many hours required to stay on top of things, too many outside influences that can be detrimental to your business. Not nearly enough return on your investment. You're struggling to keep the doors open, instead of trying to get rich. It's like "buying a job" that has no benefits except free pool time! I guess that's enough to start with, but that's the tip of the iceberg! Good Luck!
Interesting
It's quite a coincidence that I read this today. Yesterday I was thinking and came up with the idea of buying a small warehouse or vacant building and walling off as many 18'x24' rooms and renting them to the type of people who would love to have a pool table in their house, but don't have the space. I haven't done any researching to determine what monthly rate would be needed to cover overhead. I'm easily spending $200/week in table time. Has anyone on here ever tried this?
Ron F
It's quite a coincidence that I read this today. Yesterday I was thinking and came up with the idea of buying a small warehouse or vacant building and walling off as many 18'x24' rooms and renting them to the type of people who would love to have a pool table in their house, but don't have the space. I haven't done any researching to determine what monthly rate would be needed to cover overhead. I'm easily spending $200/week in table time. Has anyone on here ever tried this?
Ron F
Thanks again for all the contributions to this thread. I do think there's some confusion here as to opening a private billiards club vs a pool hall. This thread is not about opening a pool hall. I know there are some similarities between the two, but I don't think they have as much in common as some people may believe. A private billiards club would most likely only have 15-20 members, and as the monthly rate seems like it would need to be $50-100, it would be a very tight and dedicated group. Non-members would only be allowed as guests of members, and would have to pay $5-10/visit. Nobody would be making a profit, it would simply be about breaking even, paying the bills and keeping the equipment up to snuff. Sure, you'd have chips, drinks, etc., but they would be more or less at cost. Poker games are possible if you have the space, but you wouldn't really want any big money games there that would draw too much attention and that would also distract from the pool and billiards. For me, the club would also need to be non-smoking. Sorry, but ain't no way I'm going to pay a monthly fee to come home reeking of smoke.
I don't think a private billiards club is ideal for a rail bird, or someone who wants a lot of action. Rather, I think the private billiards club is really for people who either don't have space to have a table at home and/or don't have a real player's pool room close to home. I also think it's not a coincidence that most private clubs I've heard of tend to have a majority of billiards tables vs pool tables, as billiards players tend to be a more passionate bunch, especially if there aren't any/many billiards tables nearby.
I don't think a private billiards club is ideal for a rail bird, or someone who wants a lot of action. Rather, I think the private billiards club is really for people who either don't have space to have a table at home and/or don't have a real player's pool room close to home. I also think it's not a coincidence that most private clubs I've heard of tend to have a majority of billiards tables vs pool tables, as billiards players tend to be a more passionate bunch, especially if there aren't any/many billiards tables nearby.
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the club i belong to has a few key rules:
no gambling, no alcohol, no smoking
i think that's pretty wise, cuts down the on the likelihood of trouble....
it's mainly a place for people to practice on their own and casual games between a bunch of friends
if you could break even, that would be good. but most places probably don't get that far. usually a core group of 'owners' take a on more of the cost, and the members help offset that. i don't think people who own these clubs are looking to make money. usually they just want their own table and dont' have room for one at home, so they create their own little man-cave.
no gambling, no alcohol, no smoking
i think that's pretty wise, cuts down the on the likelihood of trouble....
it's mainly a place for people to practice on their own and casual games between a bunch of friends
if you could break even, that would be good. but most places probably don't get that far. usually a core group of 'owners' take a on more of the cost, and the members help offset that. i don't think people who own these clubs are looking to make money. usually they just want their own table and dont' have room for one at home, so they create their own little man-cave.
I, personally, like Eric's approach to opening a Private Billiards Club.
However, back in 1999 a few close friends and I were considering purchasing a large vacant house with enough room for 2 - 4.5 X 9's and a Snooker Table plus
utilization of smaller rooms for rest and relaxation, poker, and a well-stocked
bar and kitchen.
We would all be equal partners in the venture with 24 hr. access and guest
privileges (on a limited basis).
Our initial outlay was estimated at 50k - 75k each and we were all comfortable
with those figures.
Before we could get-the-ball-rolling (so to speak), two of the investors/partners developed serious medical conditions and, eventually, dropped out of the deal.
After that, most of the remaining investors/partners interest seemed to wain and the Private Club idea faded off into the sunset.
I am now 68 yrs. old and would still like to put something together, but finding
enough people who can happily co-habitate in that type of setting is near impossible, let alone finding enough guys with the "funds" to make it happen.
I wish you well in your endeavor IF, and when you put it together.
However, back in 1999 a few close friends and I were considering purchasing a large vacant house with enough room for 2 - 4.5 X 9's and a Snooker Table plus
utilization of smaller rooms for rest and relaxation, poker, and a well-stocked
bar and kitchen.
We would all be equal partners in the venture with 24 hr. access and guest
privileges (on a limited basis).
Our initial outlay was estimated at 50k - 75k each and we were all comfortable
with those figures.
Before we could get-the-ball-rolling (so to speak), two of the investors/partners developed serious medical conditions and, eventually, dropped out of the deal.
After that, most of the remaining investors/partners interest seemed to wain and the Private Club idea faded off into the sunset.
I am now 68 yrs. old and would still like to put something together, but finding
enough people who can happily co-habitate in that type of setting is near impossible, let alone finding enough guys with the "funds" to make it happen.
I wish you well in your endeavor IF, and when you put it together.
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Some of you may not be aware, but there is a room just such as this in San Diego right now. It is owned by Pro Player and regular poster Louis Ulrich. 4-5 tables snacks on an honor system, small library of books and videos, and of course in house lessons. Now his location is in a strip mall, and mostly gets action matches in the evening and practice in the day. But if you are serious about this, you might shoot him a PM. Im sure he would be happy to give you an overview of the pros and cons he has experienced.
Imagemker
Imagemker
1pktfool I just thought I would let you know that I don't see any reason why your idea shouldn't work because we have a club here in Edinburgh, Scotland that operates like a private member club, here is the link:
http://www.hawkeandhunter.co.uk/thegreenroom.html
So if this type of exclusive club can work in the city centre of Edinburgh I don't see why yours would somehow fail, don't let others put you off.
Good luck mate
9 Ball
http://www.hawkeandhunter.co.uk/thegreenroom.html
So if this type of exclusive club can work in the city centre of Edinburgh I don't see why yours would somehow fail, don't let others put you off.
Good luck mate
9 Ball