Legal trickshot, physically possible?

michael4 said:
looks like pushing through the CB to me, which is why he starts out with the CB so close to the OB. If you could do this shot legally, he would start with the CB in the center of the table (and the OB where it is).
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I agree with this ...
 
Mrdodd72:
The shot is hit so hard that it travels a few inches forward before the low/right English catches. This is not uncommon with hard and low English.
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It's not uncommon... it's nonexistent. No matter how hard you hit the CB, if it isn't heavier than the OB and doesn't have forward spin, it will not travel forward of the tangent line.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It's not uncommon... it's nonexistent. No matter how hard you hit the CB, if it isn't heavier than the OB and doesn't have forward spin, it will not travel forward of the tangent line.

pj
chgo
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As you already know the exception to that is if the cue ball is airborne when it hits the object ball. As with any other hit the cue ball starts out following the tangent line which in that case would be pointing up and forward (as well as left or right if the object ball was being cut). You almost always will see the cue ball deflected noticeably into the air after contact though to clue you in as to why it may have gone forward of what would have been the tangent line had the cue ball never left the table.

For those unfamiliar with what I am talking about you can see the principle at work in the following shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utA5DplH6nk

I believe this effect is also shown and/or discussed in many places on Dr. Dave's site such as during the referee quiz, in instruction for how to determine a double hit on the cue ball, and in explaining how to use this effect to jump over an interfering ball to obtain position by "jump cutting" in the object ball with the cue ball then hopping over an interfering ball, and potentially in other places on the site also. Don't know the exact links but they would all be in here, maybe someone else can point to the more direct links:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/

As others have mentioned, this doesn't appear to be the effect at work in the OP video as the cue ball doesn't really seem to leave the table. In the OP video either the cue ball was heavier than the object ball or it was double hit.
 
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Hard yes

Mrdodd72 said:
The shot is hit so hard that it travels a few inches forward before the low/right English catches. This is not uncommon with hard and low English. That is why sometimes when the object ball is deep in the pocket, and people use extreme low to keep it from scratching, the cue ball slides right into the pocket, after the object ball, before the English takes. This guy is just taking advantage of this phenomenon. The "double" click people are hearing is the tip hitting the cue ball, then the cue ball hitting the object ball. This is because he hit it so hard. Great shot!
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It is called low follow. If you played on slow cloth you would be very familiar with the shot. It is easier on longer shots because you can stroke on out. Hard and low with no pop is a follow stroke. You just have to have a good enough stroke to know it.
Nick :)
 
nick serdula said:
It is called low follow. If you played on slow cloth you would be very familiar with the shot. It is easier on longer shots because you can stroke on out. Hard and low with no pop is a follow stroke. You just have to have a good enough stroke to know it.
Nick :)
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I sure hope you are joking and just being sarcastic. Just in case you are being serious though, well, here we go again... Unless the cue ball is heavier than the object ball, or the cue ball jumps, or there is a double hit on the cue ball, the cue ball cannot go forward of the tangent line if hit with draw (that hasn't worn off yet), ever, period.

If you claim you can do it (which you did) then post an uncut video of you weighing the cue ball and object ball, and then show yourself shooting the cue ball full into the object ball and then having the cue ball go forward of the tangent line before drawing back. The cue ball is not allowed to become airborne, and make sure you put enough separation between the cue ball and object ball so that a double hit will not be possible or will at least be more obvious (a diamond or more should suffice). We will be waiting for all eternity for such a video from you or anyone else because it simply can't be done.

Not trying to sound harsh but it gets tiring watching total nonsense get repeatedly perpetuated to the detriment of the people who fall for it.
 
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book collector said:
Well done sir and thanks for sharing it with us!
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While his shot is indeed a good one, it is not the same as the shot that was being debated because his cue ball did not go forward of the tangent line. Even if it did go very slightly forward of the tangent line, it would be due to one or more of the following in this case: a double hit, the tip still on the cue ball at the time the cue ball made contact with the object ball, or because the cue ball was slightly airborne when it hit the object ball (as evidenced by the small hop the cue ball takes after hitting the object ball).

Again, you cannot make the cue ball go forward of the tangent line and then draw back unless the cue ball is heavier than the object ball, the cue ball is airborne when it hits the object ball, the cue ball is double hit by the tip, or the tip is still on the cue ball at the time the cue ball hits the object ball.
 
Player said:
In this video the science guys finally figure out stroke shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3NoBeNwfk


Well, almost...
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Your insinuation seems to be that you believe it can be done and that the "science guys" just haven't figured it out all these supernatural tricks yet. If I am correct in understanding your insinuation then please go ahead and film yourself doing as I laid out in post #92 and then post the link to your video in this thread. Or film anyone else on earth of your choosing doing it. You must obviously think you have seen it done or can do it yourself to have the belief so it should be easy to get filmed right? Now let me tell you what is really going to happen. We are never going to get the video from you or anybody else because you can't film the impossible. Please stop helping the perpetuation of nonsense.
 
this shot is a derivative of a "classical" artistic carom shot called "coulé-rétro" (french being official language of artistic carom discipline) , in english ya could translate it as "follow-draw".

-> look in this vid at 0"50 : https://youtu.be/clZvIZsQiM4?t=50 . each player plays it, and look to the 2d player who makes it , you see the cue ball jumping.

yep, the CB ball jumps "a bit" (ROFL) , a little "forced follow", then the draw starts ... as you can see with the 1st player in this vid, it goes farrrrr away the tangent line ! that's why it' called a "coulé-rétro/"follow-draw" in artistic carom .

that's a legal shot in the artistic carom discipline ... no need of a heavier CB , that's simply an uncommon/special shot . . training required, but not a magical shot ... "almost full" hit required (<- that's the recipe) , and good speed in the stroke, stable bridge, a good follow and hop , done .... not so easy but not really difficult to achieve .

2 other examples of "coulé-rétro"/"follow-draw"/low follow, other shots where you see how it goes farrr away the tangent line ROFL :

-> https://youtu.be/clZvIZsQiM4?t=815

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clZvIZsQiM4&feature=youtu.be&t=648

NOTA : on those vids , no silicon on the balls or on the cloth ( <- simonis 300 ) . the 3 balls (aramith) are identical, except the colour, of course :) ...


Of course, on those 3 vids you see the ball jumping , 'cause the shots are more extreme than on the pool vid at start of this thread https://www.facebook.com/juan.sanchezmoreno.31/videos/812512275523090/?pnref=story .
but that's the exact same principe. even IMHO i wouldn't be surprised if this guy has put some silicon on the CB , because to me it looks to slip a little more than i would expect on a pool table ... Florian K. could help about this doubt, but unfortunatly he seems to have decided to refrein to post on AZ anymore ;( , so ... the doubt will remain ...
 
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Poolplaya9 said:
Your insinuation seems to be that you believe it can be done and that the "science guys" just haven't figured it out all these supernatural tricks yet. If I am correct in understanding your insinuation then please go ahead and film yourself doing as I laid out in post #92 and then post the link to your video in this thread. Or film anyone else on earth of your choosing doing it. You must obviously think you have seen it done or can do it yourself to have the belief so it should be easy to get filmed right? Now let me tell you what is really going to happen. We are never going to get the video from you or anybody else because you can't film the impossible. Please stop helping the perpetuation of nonsense.
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Uhhhhh... See the post right after yours. #97. That makes about 6 examples. How many do you have to see?
 
Player said:
Uhhhhh... See the post right after yours. #97. That makes about 6 examples. How many do you have to see?
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Uhhhhh, do you read? The argument is whether it can be done without a double hit, or heavier cue ball, or without the cue ball being airborne when it hits the object ball and jumping forward because of it. Did the guy in those videos do that? Nope. Not once. Not even close. Everybody agrees that you can get the cue ball to go forward of the tangent line and draw back if you jump it off the top of the object ball. Every video in this thread had either a double hit or a jumping cue ball. Seriously, did you bother to read anything in the thread?
 
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