I believe Rick was COMPLEMENTING Mr Drexler.
If ANYONE gets over 1g for a PJ they have earned it some how. Never begrudge someone else's successes.
I once ate Chinese food with Jerry McWorter......but I had to pay....:smile:
Let's talk about some precision machining...
- Thread starter Monstermash
- Start date
I believe Rick was COMPLEMENTING Mr Drexler.
If ANYONE gets over 1g for a PJ they have earned it some how. Never begrudge someone else's successes.
I once ate Chinese food with Jerry McWorter......but I had to pay....:smile:
I APPLAUD guys that can get even 600 for a simple PJ.
In my mind,that means it's either made very well to the point of looking nice and inspires a feeling of quality,plays good to a larger number of players,or in the case of those that get 12-1500 for them,BOTH.
There are even cuemakers here that although they haven't been in the door long enough to have a lot of time-tested cues in the field,they are still selling PJ's for 350. I know one that has sold 11 in the last few months,with pretty limited equipment to boot.
I'd gladly accept that,even though I believe the stuff I sign my name to will sell itself better.
Paul gets all the respect I can give,because he's great at what he does,he's innovative,obviously smart,a prolific maker of high quality instruments,and obviously an astute and respectable businessman. Tommy D.
In my mind,that means it's either made very well to the point of looking nice and inspires a feeling of quality,plays good to a larger number of players,or in the case of those that get 12-1500 for them,BOTH.
There are even cuemakers here that although they haven't been in the door long enough to have a lot of time-tested cues in the field,they are still selling PJ's for 350. I know one that has sold 11 in the last few months,with pretty limited equipment to boot.
I'd gladly accept that,even though I believe the stuff I sign my name to will sell itself better.
Paul gets all the respect I can give,because he's great at what he does,he's innovative,obviously smart,a prolific maker of high quality instruments,and obviously an astute and respectable businessman. Tommy D.
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I'm impressed that Mr Drexler has the class to stay out of this thread,,,,,,,,,
![P271011_09.43_[01].jpg](/data/attachments/149/149456-8170cedcdc3e29b36ae0879af87e5cf9.jpg?hash=gXDO3Nw-Kb)
Really? Why is that exactly? Or, better yet, why do you feel the need to even mention it?
Yes, this thread has taken a turn for the worst because like always, people can't seem to keep their opinions to themselves but feel it's NOT ok for someoen else to have an opinion that differs from their's. I am not without fault in this but I have chosen to step back from it in hopes the thread would die but some people here have nothing better to do than to post a 100 times a day whether it's constructive or not.
The original post was designed to make people aware of some of the newer technology that is becoming available for cue makers and was done in a way that was tongue in cheek. Unfortunatey, it seems that some didn't think it was as funny as others.
I'm partly to blame for the way the thread turned because I mentioned that I didn't think a certain cue makers cues with worth the inflated prices he seems to get for them. I mentioned it because I find it very funny that people will spend all that money for a cue that while I'm sure plays well, is rather boring in my opinion especially when compared to the offerings by PFD and a lot of others that seem to be forgotten because of all the hype thats done here on this forum. I find it amusing that all these others can come on here and act like cue makers A, B, or C is the second coming when all they are trying to do is sell you something. If they actually owned the cue for their personal use and did a fair review I wouldn't have an issue with it. When they do it for monetary gain it kind of pisses me off.
Additionally, while I sometimes have a difficult time keeping my mouth shut, I refrained from mentioning the makers name but did throw a big hint as to who it may be. With that, another member decided it would be ok to call me out on it even though it's none of his business. I take exception to that because of all the hype. Why is it ok for someone to come here and tell everyone how great something is (which is an opinion) but I can't state how crappy I think they are?
Please enlighten me.
I feel it is ok to post your opinion or feelings about any cue maker. Just be prepared for others's opinions as well. I'm pretty sure there are people that love my cues and others that don't. I accept that. So, if someone posts an honest review, I'm ok with it. You questioned the cuemaker's prices by comparing it to another cuemaker's prices. I think some took offence because it puts, not his cues, but his integrity in question.
Again, you can post that too if you want. No one is saying you can't. Just be prepared for response.
<~~Likes and appriciates both PFD and unnamed cue maker's cues.
The post you are referring to in your quote was over 29 hours old, I can let it go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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MM - How do you know how much Eric Crisp (there, I said his name) charges for a PJ? I have tried to explain this to you in the past but you seem to forget. He charges between $750-850 for a PJ depending on materials and ringwork packs with two shafts. The $1200 figure is what they generally sell for on AZB. That is what the MARKET dictates. That seems like VALUE to me.
I have a receipt from PFD Studios for a PJ I paid $1,000 for. The cue was already preassembled in his shop. The wood was Masur Birch which is very unique. He added a pigskin wrap and a single Predator shaft with ultra simple ringwork.
Very comparable in my opinion.
To compare cuemakers and their style is futile...
I have a receipt from PFD Studios for a PJ I paid $1,000 for. The cue was already preassembled in his shop. The wood was Masur Birch which is very unique. He added a pigskin wrap and a single Predator shaft with ultra simple ringwork.
Very comparable in my opinion.
To compare cuemakers and their style is futile...
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No, not value. Just because someone sells you something for a specific price, that doesn't mean it's worth it. It may be worth it to the buyer, but in this case it's probably because there are a bunch of people that create the hype. It's funny, I noticed there wasn't anyone who refuted my point about the difference in value you get with each maker. I do find it funny that YOU responed to this because you own two of Eric's (I never said it was him, you are speculating) cues. Got to keep that hype going in case you ever want to sell them right?
As far as your $1000 PJ PFD, I think you may need to look as why it was $1000. Do you think the pig skin wrap is free? Do you think that adding a predator shaft isn't going to add to the price of the cue? Did it have an ivory joint or buttcap or Hoppe ring? Because all those things add to the price of a cue, it doesn't matter who makes it.
So, if you're going to make a comparison like this, please compare apples to apples. Additionally, buying a cue from a Hall of Fame cuemaker such as Paul should cost more than someone that doesn't have half the experience or who doesn't have the creative edge or the advanced equipment to ensure that every one of his cues is built to the same quality standards.
Did you conveniently miss the part where I said Eric's cues are $750-850? That is for a PJ DEPENDING on the ringwork and materials used.
The reason I replied now was because I was bored at work and read this thread. I found it fascinating that YOU decided to show Paul's "new" technology. And then other people called BS with your .0005 statement. The simple fact that Dennis Searing and Tony Scianella use .005 endmills should tell anybody where the technology stops.
Getting back to the PFD cue. Here are some pics:
No Ivory, the wrap was $125 and a Predator shaft was $200. Like I said before, very similar cues. Except the Sugartree gets you two shafts and wrapless.
Like I said, I prefer not to get into the value of each cue. It comes down to which cue plays better. It is as simple as that.
The difference between you and I is that I have actually played with both cues. I just made a decision to sell my PFD cues and buy/play with others. My money. My choice.
Here are some pics of the 20th Anniversarry cue Paul made me. This was before he started using smaller end mills. This cue was $3500. He told me it was worth over $5,000. I sold it for $2200. Never could figure out what those dark spots around the inlays were.:
I will ask you one more question - Does Paul make his own spliced points?
Wow. Looks like the speculation is over. Man you cant say anything about Eric's shop or equipement unless you have actually been to his shop and seen his setup. On top of that, what about Tim Scruggs? He didnt have the latest greatest equipement, and he could build a cue that most would value just as much if not more than almost any other maker out there. If you want to compare apples to apples, you might wanna go look at the orchard. I really like the way Paul's cues look, and i really like the way Eric's do. Its my opinion, and thats all that really matters to me. One thing is for sure though, bashing Eric is in no way going to make me or anyone else on earth think higher of Paul. I can appreciate your opinion, but you must also accept other peoples opinions as well.
Joe
Joe
As you mentioned, here is a PFD / Davis Blank cue. However the cost was slightly higher than your estimate. This cost $1550:
Best playing PFD I owned. Love the full splice hit...
Yes that cue would be a little higher. It looks like you got a good deal.
That cue would be $1200 as a base price for a Davis blank. The ivory joint is $200, leather wrap $200, ivory Hoppe ring $50 and then add for the .030 ivory ringwork.
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Are you a salesman for PFD Studios? I know the prices too, or used to know them. That leather wrap is $100. Not that it matters now. In the end, it is still a conversion cue.
Why do you avoid my questions? You keep harping that a PJ from Eric is $1200. The price from him is $750-850. Supply and demand dictate that they sell for north of $1000. Eric makes the entire cue. Often times he cuts his own wood. Definitely for his shaft wood. He works in a tiny shop without the aid of technology. He doesn't do inlays yet. So what? Do they make a cue play better? I don't think so. Isn't that the purpose of a cue? To play good. Instill confidence? His point and butterfly work is as good as anyone except maybe Barenbrugge and Fanelli.
All while being a stay at home Dad and part time cuemaker.
You really need to let it go. I don't understand why you have such a hard on for him. So what you don't like him. That doesn't mean he is not a good cuemaker. You have even greater distaste for John Barton. He's nuts. He knows. Yet he builds a fantastic case.
Life is too short...
In all seriousness, I'm glad you found a cuemaker that you like. But to put other cuemakers down is just not cool. It makes you look petty.
Actually if you have had the pleasure of exchanging PMs with the Golden Boy, you would see things a little different.
GB is very giving of his knowledge. Lots of cue makers are like this, you just have to get to know them. He isn't afraid that someone will take his knowledge and maybe out do him. He doesn't tell you exactly how he does thing s either but he does point you down the right path and let you learn from there. And if you read between the lines, he actually is telling you how he makes cues, techniques and wood combos, he just lets you experiment and figure out the finer details yourself.
Can't get much better than that. IMHO, of course.
GB is very giving of his knowledge. Lots of cue makers are like this, you just have to get to know them. He isn't afraid that someone will take his knowledge and maybe out do him. He doesn't tell you exactly how he does thing s either but he does point you down the right path and let you learn from there. And if you read between the lines, he actually is telling you how he makes cues, techniques and wood combos, he just lets you experiment and figure out the finer details yourself.
Can't get much better than that. IMHO, of course.
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Most truthful post in this whole thread imho.
You know Steve, I used to think you were ok. My actions, are just that, MY actions. I have my own opinions, and I have every right to have them. If I think someone charges too much for something it's well within my right to say so, so long as I don't crap in someone's for sale thread.