I got a super pro on my gilbert j/b and like it:thumbup:
Lift the ban bca!!!!!!
- Thread starter rbpwrd240
- Start date
I got a super pro on my gilbert j/b and like it:thumbup:
I think more tourneys and room owners should ban all tips but leather. and ban jump cues too. ive used em, dont like em. do they work sure.. so what. i feel you should learn how to play. not buy somthing that makes one facet of the game ezer for you. if i learned to play you safe you should LEARN how to get out of it.
being safed and going to your case to pull out a jump cue, in my eyes, is the same as if you were bowling and someone on the other team had to hit a 7-10 split, goes to his other bag and pulls out a 4 effin foot wide bowling ball and says " wow im sure glad these 7-10 split balls arent banned.."
and as for break cues: having a seperate break cue was primarily to keep from mushrooming the tip on your player. If you really break soo badly that you feel you need a tip as hard or harder than the ball maybe billiard sports arent for you. besides most people who feel they need a phenolic break tip dont realize they are harder to break "well" with. if your break sucks with leather then its gonna suck with phenolic.(it might just sound a little louder).
i have an x-breaker shaft and put a leather tip it (hercules) and it breaks better now than ever b4. and as for jumping, im all for jump shots but do it with your playing cue. I do.
being safed and going to your case to pull out a jump cue, in my eyes, is the same as if you were bowling and someone on the other team had to hit a 7-10 split, goes to his other bag and pulls out a 4 effin foot wide bowling ball and says " wow im sure glad these 7-10 split balls arent banned.."
and as for break cues: having a seperate break cue was primarily to keep from mushrooming the tip on your player. If you really break soo badly that you feel you need a tip as hard or harder than the ball maybe billiard sports arent for you. besides most people who feel they need a phenolic break tip dont realize they are harder to break "well" with. if your break sucks with leather then its gonna suck with phenolic.(it might just sound a little louder).
i have an x-breaker shaft and put a leather tip it (hercules) and it breaks better now than ever b4. and as for jumping, im all for jump shots but do it with your playing cue. I do.
Sorry but your analogy doesn't really match up.. The 4 foot wide bowling ball would be a sure shot even on a new turn in bowling with every pin on the spot.. there would be no need for the regular sized bowling balls anymore. It doesn't really translate to the playing cue/jump cue scenario..
Although I completely believe you when you say you've seen cue balls with tiny cracks (as I've seen them myself), I've also been to multiple quality billiards rooms where they don't cheap out on their balls and every ball in each of the pool rooms (with about 20-25 tables each) including their cueballs were in perfect to near perfect condition. There are tons of regulars and nearly all of them powerbreak with their phenolic tipped break cues daily with no issues.
Rooms with owner complaints about phenolic tips damaging their equipment is a moot point next to the general customers that come into pool rooms abusing their equipment by either leaving drinks on tables or tossing cues around when they miss shots etc. etc. Competition players, at least in my experience, take much better care of pool room equipment.
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yeah how would you roll a 4 foot wide bowling ball anyways. LOLSorry but your analogy doesn't really match up.. The 4 foot wide bowling ball would be a sure shot even on a new turn in bowling with every pin on the spot.. there would be no need for the regular sized bowling balls anymore. It doesn't really translate to the playing cue/jump cue scenario..
BVal
I HAVE BIG HANDS.
anyway my example wasnt meant to be taken literaly. it was meant to give the reader a mental image in order to help get across to others how i feel. i guess mrgoochio didnt get that part. BVal that's funny im throwin ya some greenies
My point is that the mental image you are portraying has no relation to the playing cue/jump cue or leather tip/phenolic tip situation. I got your analogy.
I think Phenolics are simply another tip IMO. I know a couple of players that actually play with phenolic tips as their shooting tip(not just for breaking or jumping). I am older and grew up learning how to kick. The advent of the stubby jumpers with phenolics, I have been always opposed to. I spent years learning how to kick and now a player can learn how to jump with a stubby in like a half an hour. I know the phenolics tear up cue balls but we as players have had to put up with lousy barbox cueballs for years. Was the BCAPL as quick to respond to players complaints about cue balls as they were to make their decision to ban phenolics, I don't think so. With all that I have said, I will side with the BCAPL on this one, as I value the tradition of what one can reasonably do with a cueball from practice and experience than what one can do with a cueball because of a piece of phenolic resin.
What did you do before phenolic balls?
and before rubber rails?
and before worsted cloth?
and before billiards was played on a table....
Sports and sports equipment evolve, no point on trying to stop it.... no point on trying to go back in time either....
Phenolic make jumping easier but at the same time makes good safe shots harder.
breaking a 9ball rack and running out is easier with today's equipment so maybe it's the game's fault on not the equipment... 9ball is a hustler game, it was design to make more money and fast. The only reason it became the "pros game" is because it looks better on TV... BUT hey there isn't really pool on TV anymore so why not go back to play 14.1 or 8ball.
To be honest we really have to look at things with the correct prospective... with the current state of the BCA, who cares what they do? how many BCA events do you have in a year? is there a BCA tour?... really who cares?
The big scenes that influence the pool world today is the Asian and European scenes and as long as phenolic is OK to use over there and as long as most pro events in the USA are private then really, who gives a f.... about what the BCA does?
Kinda sad as the BCA used to be the industry leader and all other pool governing bodies tried to be like the BCA.
Played in 3 tournaments in the last year in Asia, phenolics were accepted every time as well as jump cues. Everyone was OK with it and seemed to like it as well.
Skor,
First, you must separate BCA and BCAPL. They are two separate entities. Why should you care about BCAPL? Go to their website and look at how many events they host regionally. My guess is in two years BCAPL will be completely replaced by CSI anyway to aleviate this confusion. BCAPL's connection to Diamond tables is another. If Mark Griffin decides to ban phenolic at all his events, the list of available tournaments for you will sure shrink! Remember, we are talking about amateur pool anyway. Specifically BCAPL amateur events.
Lyn
Rules and equipment evolve in any sport.
It's up to the rules committee to make the determinations as to whether a particular item will be allowed or not, IN SANCTIONED EVENTS. What you do out in the world, outside of sanctioned events, is up to you and what you feel you can get away with.
Would golf be a better sport if a guidance system were embedded in the ball? Would the sport be elevated if NIKE gave Tiger Woods a ball that he could drive 500 yds.?
IIRC, it's been tried and promptly rejected, BY THE RULES COMMITTEE.
Let's not dismiss the concept of a level playing field.
I don't believe that the impetus for the recent ruling was initiated by the players but by those that provide the equipment for sanctioned events. Personally I think this is the right ruling at the right time. This ruling makes pool a better sport. Isn't that a noble enough objective?
I have to admit, this ruling will affect me on a personal level and not because it will hinder my jump game. I don't jump.
I fabricate phenolic tips and one piece tip/ferrules. I see this source of income going away. That's fine by me, I'm a 'player' and will adapt. The ones who should be crying the loudest are the 'big dog' manufacturers who have designed & built some of their products around the use of phen. tips, etc.
I don't hear them whining. They are successful in business because they have the ability to change. That's an admirable quality.
"Sports and sports equipment evolve, no point on trying to stop it." Quote Skor.
Actually there is. If it's proven that said evolution results in damage to the equipment then it's time to re-evaluate the ruling. Sometimes this isn't done at the speed that some people would like.
In this scenario, the end justifies the means.
It's up to the rules committee to make the determinations as to whether a particular item will be allowed or not, IN SANCTIONED EVENTS. What you do out in the world, outside of sanctioned events, is up to you and what you feel you can get away with.
Would golf be a better sport if a guidance system were embedded in the ball? Would the sport be elevated if NIKE gave Tiger Woods a ball that he could drive 500 yds.?
IIRC, it's been tried and promptly rejected, BY THE RULES COMMITTEE.
Let's not dismiss the concept of a level playing field.
I don't believe that the impetus for the recent ruling was initiated by the players but by those that provide the equipment for sanctioned events. Personally I think this is the right ruling at the right time. This ruling makes pool a better sport. Isn't that a noble enough objective?
I have to admit, this ruling will affect me on a personal level and not because it will hinder my jump game. I don't jump.
I fabricate phenolic tips and one piece tip/ferrules. I see this source of income going away. That's fine by me, I'm a 'player' and will adapt. The ones who should be crying the loudest are the 'big dog' manufacturers who have designed & built some of their products around the use of phen. tips, etc.
I don't hear them whining. They are successful in business because they have the ability to change. That's an admirable quality.
"Sports and sports equipment evolve, no point on trying to stop it." Quote Skor.
Actually there is. If it's proven that said evolution results in damage to the equipment then it's time to re-evaluate the ruling. Sometimes this isn't done at the speed that some people would like.
In this scenario, the end justifies the means.
Skor,
At this moment, I do not know of a single event sanctioned by the BCA. They have become strictly a billiards industry mouthpiece. The BCAPL sanctions tournaments and leagues. They also write the rules for those events. VNEA and ACS essentially use BCAPL rules for their events with some modifications. Again I suggest looking at the playbca.com or playcsi.com websites under events for event listings. There is no connection between BCA and BCAPL other than three letters.
Lyn
More of my opinions.
The game of billiards is a game with jump shots. If you dont like it then you probably cant jump. Some of these people argue they spent time learning how to kick. Well I spent time learning how to correctly jump with a slew of tips and now some of my favorites are illegal.
The BCA's goal is to figure out how to better elevate and excel the game in the states. Here I think they might want to see more money get poured into the industry by all of us going and getting new cues and tips and shafts.
The BCAPL argues that these tips fracture and crack cue balls. The funny part here is that most rooms that hold leagues already pay there own costs and normally have degrading 10 year old equipment anyway. The BCAPL would only have to purchase tables from Diamond on very rare instances. These tables would then be resold back to the public above cost and under retail. So the BCAPL isnt loosing money here!!!
Diamond and the BCAPL have a long standing friendly relationship. I believe the owners may even have stock in each others seperate entities. This means that BCAPLs owner makes money by buying the diamond tables that his league plays on. LOL It would make sense that he does this with league member dues.
So where is the cost hurting the BCAPL? I just dont see it. I think their maybe a connection here.
The game of billiards is a game with jump shots. If you dont like it then you probably cant jump. Some of these people argue they spent time learning how to kick. Well I spent time learning how to correctly jump with a slew of tips and now some of my favorites are illegal.
The BCA's goal is to figure out how to better elevate and excel the game in the states. Here I think they might want to see more money get poured into the industry by all of us going and getting new cues and tips and shafts.
The BCAPL argues that these tips fracture and crack cue balls. The funny part here is that most rooms that hold leagues already pay there own costs and normally have degrading 10 year old equipment anyway. The BCAPL would only have to purchase tables from Diamond on very rare instances. These tables would then be resold back to the public above cost and under retail. So the BCAPL isnt loosing money here!!!
Diamond and the BCAPL have a long standing friendly relationship. I believe the owners may even have stock in each others seperate entities. This means that BCAPLs owner makes money by buying the diamond tables that his league plays on. LOL It would make sense that he does this with league member dues.
So where is the cost hurting the BCAPL? I just dont see it. I think their maybe a connection here.
