Lil John's Big Stakes
- Thread starter DoomCue
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onepocketchump
Guest
chefjeff said:Here we go again...someone else has again started trouble where before there was none.
"Must be a subscriber"???...lol...Unless someone steals it and illegally post it here.
So people here give thanks for receiving stolen property while there's moral indignation about Kevin and his past, and now this thread's pissing about a $200 apparent cue ripoff! And then there's complaining about lack of good media coverage for pool! DER! Geez...look in the mirror! We're trying to clean up the image of pool to attract good attention to the game???? Yeah, right.
To me, this theft is grounds for being removed from the AZ board as it is a direct violation of the agreement with SI and with the agreement with AZ. I won't be waiting for this to happen of course, as it seems that just being a loud mouth gets ya barred but being a crook doesn't seem to matter.
Btw, I started no trouble, to those here who will mindlessly and cowardly slam me for this ethical revelation. Before you start more trouble, think about that fact of reality. I'll go through the facts again and again if I must, but it won't be fun, that's for sure. I'm donning my hardhat.
Jeff Livingston
Jeff, everybody has their own sense of what's right and wrong. For a forum member to paste the article here is probably not intellectual property theft. If Mike had taken it and posted on the main page of AZ then it would have been. Pasting in a forum is no different than passing the magazine around to three thousand people or having a magazine at the doctor's office. Once something is in the public domain it is free for pubic consumption as long as no person other than the property owner is profiting financially off of it.
Nor, is there any absolute right and wrong. Everything is framed in context of intent. The intent here as I see it is to share a story about something our particular group is interested in. That is good intent, with no real harm to the magazine. In fact, although they would probably prefer to have everyone subscribe, they proabably don't mind the special interest use of their articles in situations like this. It does lead to more exposure for the magazine and potentially more subscribers. I bet that SI would be pleased to get just a few more subscribers for what is essentially free advertising.
So, in the end we all benefit, it's a win/win for us and SI. It's the information age, if it's out there then we all share in it.
What will we be when information is freely shared. Will we become better people through the sum of our collective experiences or will we simply be entertained without retention?
John
onepocketchump said:
JB,
I wonder if Chef-man may be interpreting the law incorrectly. My best friend across the street (a lawyer, go figure) says that no laws were broken. As long as the poster does not financially benefit, or "intend" to financially benefit, then no problem. This is what allows those sleazy doctors and libraries to leave their magazines lying around. The music issue is different, there has been special legislation passed in their case - though the issue is still quite controversial (see the electronic freedom websites). I think for now I'll continue to leave the magazines in the waiting room (since SI gives me a special discount to do so - go figure again).
Colin Colenso said:
Life is about choices. I think that anyone worth their salt only wants to be happy. And for their family and friends to be happy. It's not about money. Being broke or being rich is not the issue. I've been both, and I prefer happy. It seems that some people think that only their lifestyle or belief is good for everyone. What a boring world this would be if that were the case.
I would venture to guess that anyone who posts negatively about Lil Jon doesn't know him. From all that I have ever seen he's a stand-up, honest guy. And you can tell when you speak with him that he is happy in his shoes. That's more than most people will ever accomplish.
And I don't know what Jack is pissing about. He has been in pool for long enough to know that sometimes people go broke. He made an extra $100 on the case by selling it on Ebay, so it can't be the money issue. And I'm sure that this is not the first time that he's been left with the balance on a case. His shitty post couldn't be anything except a cheap shot at Lil Jon. Even if he did get stiffed on the balance of a case, I thought that he had a little more class than to take cheap shots. At anyone.
As was stated before, this is a public forum. That's my opinion.
Mike
Mike Templeton said:
Mike,
I would suggest you go back and read post#38. I didn't make an extra $100 and yes this is the first time I got stiffed. You can call it a cheap shot or whatever you want but the fact remains I didn't get paid for the case and ended up losing $200 for having to put it up on Ebay. Busted or not busted, I am sure LilJon could have come up with the $200 if he had wanted to. The article just hit me wrong about LilJon's lifestyle, living on a golf course in a classy neighborhood, playing for $20,000 sets and yet couldn't come up with a lousy $200??? You make it sound like I should relish the fact that getting "stiffed" by LilJon is OK. I would like to forget about this ordeal but if you keep bringing up excuses why he didn't or couldn't pay up, then I guess it will keep on going. Having an opinion is fine, just make sure you get the facts straight.
Jack
Jack Justis said:
There is no excuse not to come up with a crummy $200 for a custom case WITH YOUR NAME ON IT that you ordered. Anyone with just a touch of honor would pony up. Especially when you got a huge verifiable discount to begin with!
I know from many many experiences that magazine articles are mostly BS. A while back there was an article in a NY mag about this "pool hustler" who made an average of $1200 a week. This guy was dead busted 99% of the time.
His actions and words regarding the case situation tell me alll i need to know.
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Jack Justis said:
Jack,
Here is the post in question. Maybe I am reading it wrong. It says that you told him that you would sell him the case for $300. He gave you a $100 deposit. That leaves $200 you should have been expecting as a balance. You sold the case on Ebay for over $300. The $300 from Ebay, plus the $100 from Lil Jon makes $400 for a case that you told Lil Jon you would sell for $300. I don't understand why you say you are losing money. Is it because you didn't get full retail? It seems to me that you agreed to sell the case for less than full retail at the time of the sale. Correct me if I am not comprehending this correctly. And you have gotten much more publicity for your product from this thread (and the "Unclaimed Freight" thread in the Wanted/For Sale section) than you could ever have expected from Lil Jon.
And as far as letting the incident die, your first post in this thread belittling Lil Jon is what started these responses. Apparently you are the one who wants to keep this episode fresh in peoples minds. You were the first to fan the flames.
Mike
Mike,Mike Templeton said:
If you read all the details posted here, you would see that the $300 price was discounted considerably, for in return of the discount it was expected that Lil'Jon would provide some degree of exposure / marketing for Jack's product.
But as promises were broken, that added value also went astray and the re-sale of the item for $300, with extra work to cover the player's name, resulted in around $300 less than what Jack usually gets for his cases. Hence, his opportunity costs resulted in a loss.
Response!!!!!!!!!
All I can say is "WOW." This is unbelievable. I've got Sarah apologizing to Jack for refering me to Jack,(like im a deadbeat) You've got "Extreme Billiards" basically saying that, "anyone who doesnt do what they say is no good for pool or business, and then Ive been called a "stiff" and everthing else. Since you three understand business so well and are aware "completely" of what happened please answer this: WHAT CAN I DO NOW TO MAKE THIS RIGHT THAT I HAVENT ALREADY DONE? Please, Im dying for an answer.
Mike, man these guys are tough! Right before Vegas when I was supposed to originally meet Jack and get the case is when I got robbed in Boston,(which I have never gotten but 300.00 back). Things happen and when a gambler does not have a bankroll to keep gambling on then it makes it even harder to pay for and live in a "luxurios neighborhood" and bet that big money any more. Since then I havent played anything but tournaments with the best players in the world and the best Ive finished is 5th,6th. I must agree with you when you said hes got his advertisement out of this.(4800 hits and counting) The only advertisement Ive got is this. No case, Negative comments about Lil Jon, and a 6 page forum making me look like my "word" is no good and I do not appreciate it at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One things for sure and that is I would never have disrespected you Jack if something happened and the case wouldnt have been on time or if anything would have happened that might have prevented you from keeping your word.... People down south respect me b/c they truly know me and they pay attention to what I do. By saying this if I show up with a Jack Justis case they want a Jack Justis case. If I start breaking with an "Extreme Breaker" you'll start seeing the locals break with an extreme breaker. The point is you would have gotten your money eventually, at the US OPEN, in Orlando, etc. Its not like you were never going to see me and whats so ridiculous is the amount wasnt even enough to worry about but at the time I had "NOTHING" all my money was in BOSTON. Why do you think I didnt go to the BCA this year and could not meet you? The point is we both lost but the "disrespect" was not necessary. How many cases have you sold from the guy who bought it off ebay? Probably not many. I wanted one because I saw Shannons and Sarahs and both were awesome. They were your advertisement to me but if you werent looking for advertisement from me then why did you offer a discount? I didnt ask for one but I was very apprecative that you recognized that I was up and coming and offered one. I wish this hole discussion would not have gone public and Im sorry the article rubbed you the wrong way. When your a gambler and you want a nice house you better have a big down payment. Between my down payment and Boston that was it, sorry again that you caught me at a bad time but the disrespect was not necessary!!!!!!!!LilJon
All I can say is "WOW." This is unbelievable. I've got Sarah apologizing to Jack for refering me to Jack,(like im a deadbeat) You've got "Extreme Billiards" basically saying that, "anyone who doesnt do what they say is no good for pool or business, and then Ive been called a "stiff" and everthing else. Since you three understand business so well and are aware "completely" of what happened please answer this: WHAT CAN I DO NOW TO MAKE THIS RIGHT THAT I HAVENT ALREADY DONE? Please, Im dying for an answer.
Mike, man these guys are tough! Right before Vegas when I was supposed to originally meet Jack and get the case is when I got robbed in Boston,(which I have never gotten but 300.00 back). Things happen and when a gambler does not have a bankroll to keep gambling on then it makes it even harder to pay for and live in a "luxurios neighborhood" and bet that big money any more. Since then I havent played anything but tournaments with the best players in the world and the best Ive finished is 5th,6th. I must agree with you when you said hes got his advertisement out of this.(4800 hits and counting) The only advertisement Ive got is this. No case, Negative comments about Lil Jon, and a 6 page forum making me look like my "word" is no good and I do not appreciate it at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One things for sure and that is I would never have disrespected you Jack if something happened and the case wouldnt have been on time or if anything would have happened that might have prevented you from keeping your word.... People down south respect me b/c they truly know me and they pay attention to what I do. By saying this if I show up with a Jack Justis case they want a Jack Justis case. If I start breaking with an "Extreme Breaker" you'll start seeing the locals break with an extreme breaker. The point is you would have gotten your money eventually, at the US OPEN, in Orlando, etc. Its not like you were never going to see me and whats so ridiculous is the amount wasnt even enough to worry about but at the time I had "NOTHING" all my money was in BOSTON. Why do you think I didnt go to the BCA this year and could not meet you? The point is we both lost but the "disrespect" was not necessary. How many cases have you sold from the guy who bought it off ebay? Probably not many. I wanted one because I saw Shannons and Sarahs and both were awesome. They were your advertisement to me but if you werent looking for advertisement from me then why did you offer a discount? I didnt ask for one but I was very apprecative that you recognized that I was up and coming and offered one. I wish this hole discussion would not have gone public and Im sorry the article rubbed you the wrong way. When your a gambler and you want a nice house you better have a big down payment. Between my down payment and Boston that was it, sorry again that you caught me at a bad time but the disrespect was not necessary!!!!!!!!LilJon
liljon said:
I understand your position and hopefully you will understand mine. I have told you personally, I have no hard feelings toward you at this time and am ready to move on. I think we both have learned something that will help us make the right decisions in the future. I hope you do well on the IPT.
Jack
The Baby's Arm
Banned
Jack Justis said:
I'll give you $100 for a case with my name on it.
And I will give you $100 for a case with the baby's arm's name on it.The Baby's Arm said:
onepocketchump said:
Thank you, John, for a reasoned reply.
Your example of passing around a mag or in a doctor's office doesn't apply here. Here, two legal contracts were violated and yes, someone could claim that isn't wrong. But it canNOT be the one who first, freely and willingly entered into the contracts and then second, violated same.
Jeff Livingston
liljon said:
Me too. I've known Jack for a few years, and recently met Lil Jon. I cannot say one bad thing about either gentlemen. Jack is as good of a human being as I've ever met. And Jon was as polite, gracious and humble as anyone I've ever met.
It's obvious the situation was unique and it sucked. Leave it at that.
Fred
O
onepocketchump
Guest
chefjeff said:
Which contracts were violated? And breach of contract 'may' be wrong depending on the circumstances. If the contract violates the law then it may be invalid and not binding. I doubt that someone could enforce a contract that prevents one from distributing information that has become part of the public domain, if in fact it is part of the public domain.
John