Little discussion thread about selling

manwon said:
JV, in my opinion, you should not be in the business of authenticating or selling antique cues unless you are able to do the job correctly and honestly. By this I mean, that speculation on what something is must be out the window, and the item can only be sold for the quality that was put into making it, without a name attached if you are uncertain.

Honesty is the best policy, an honest person would sell something as Unknown rather than speculate and attach a false label. It really matters not if you are educated on the subject or not, when you attach a name to any item to increase it's value, you have responsibility after the sale.
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This is all very true. Which is why a smart (reputable) dealer gets his cue authenticated BEFORE he resells it. Had a cue I had been flagged in a forum I would have pulled the cue immediately from the site, instead of some lame a$$ lie about selling it because of the thread.

manwon said:
I think way too many people forget the value of ones word. People who are intentionally deceptive or even just ignorant are viewed in the same manner where their reputation is concerned. We all see those people who's world gets smaller and smaller everyday due to their dishonest behavior, and dirty business deals right here on AZ.

I think an honest man would take a measure of responsibility if they authenticated an item that was proved to be a fraud anytime later. Also in my opinion if you sell an item and attach a name to it, whether you realize it or not you have just offered an authentication.

If you are the first seller who brings an item into the market, that is proved not to be as described later at a minimum, you should take responsibility and buy the item back until the dispute can be settled.

If you get stuck, thats the chance we all take, because we all take a loss once in a while, it is just the nature of the beast, and your reputation is worth far more than the lost money.

Just my thoughts!!!!!!
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All this is true and again if I had an item and one of the owners told me an item was not how I described it, I would have taken the item down before I looked like more of an a$$ than I already was.

JV
 
I think the best solution is to start a dedicated trust, to deal with cues over a set price range, even Escrow can be manipulated, so in my opinion your start this ring of trust and you only deal with members, before you can put your cue up for sale, it must be aurhenticated.. Im speaking of cues that go for 10k and higher, what will happen is that sellers will loose buyers unless they themselves become members. it may take some time but it would happen.


it may sound a little silly but is taking the chance on 10's of thousands of dollars any less.....silly?


just my .02


SPINDOKTOR
 
I wonder who the seller of the cue in question was? :D Seems as if this is part of a on going feud between the two of you.

Don't understand why. I have bought cues from both of you and give each a high rating.

Nothing like a little cat fight to keep the ratings up. It works for NASCAR, WWF, and everything else so why not cue sales?

Watched a HBO special the other day about the "big" rivalry between Michigan and Ohio State. It was a war between Woody and Bo. They were so called bitter enemies but in reality they were best friends.

Keep it going, as it is all in fun.
 
classiccues said:
This is all very true. Which is why a smart (reputable) dealer gets his cue authenticated BEFORE he resells it. Had a cue I had been flagged in a forum I would have pulled the cue immediately from the site, instead of some lame a$$ lie about selling it because of the thread.



All this is true and again if I had an item and one of the owners told me an item was not how I described it, I would have taken the item down before I looked like more of an a$$ than I already was.

JV
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I could not agree more, and what I have written above is exactly the way I run my Pool Hall, Pro-shop, and Cue repair/ Cue Building business.

Oh and by the way, I think this is the secret to sucess in any business!!

Have a good night!!!
 
Selling Cues

It seems to me to be very simple. You buy an expensive/rare cue from a "DEALER" this implies "Expertise and Authenticated Cues". When you represent yourself as a Dealer you better know what your talking about.
 
TheBook said:
I wonder who the seller of the cue in question was? :D Seems as if this is part of a on going feud between the two of you.

Don't understand why. I have bought cues from both of you and give each a high rating.

Nothing like a little cat fight to keep the ratings up. It works for NASCAR, WWF, and everything else so why not cue sales?

Watched a HBO special the other day about the "big" rivalry between Michigan and Ohio State. It was a war between Woody and Bo. They were so called bitter enemies but in reality they were best friends.

Keep it going, as it is all in fun.
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It was just a general thought that arose from the other thread. No specific cue or circumstance in mind.. If I had a friend like that I would kill myself.

JV
 
Chris Byrne said:
I thought about doing the escrow for az'ers but decided against it because of the potential problems that could arise. To use the above example, Someone sells a southwest and ships a KC. They could blame the switch on me. Anyone who knows me knows I believe reputation is all you have and I would never do such a thing. I just decided the potential risk was not worth the few bucks.
As for the original question I believe the responsability lies on whoever sells the cue. I pay someone for an item that was advertised as x it needs to be x. If it was misrepresented to the seller that is his problem to go back and get his refund from his seller. Just my 2 cents. Chris.
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I wondered how an escrow service goes about protecting their reputation...if liability is all on them...
 
it is the sellers responsibility!! 100% its kinda like a cue comes up stolen and the person that has it, should return it to the rightful owner! it just happened to me last year on a barry i bought i was out 4050.00 but the correct owner got the cue with no money to me! and i did not drag it out in court, I stand behind everything with a buy back policy ! ;)
 
great subject

manwon said:
JV, in my opinion, you should not be in the business of authenticating or selling antique cues unless you are able to do the job correctly and honestly. By this I mean, that speculation on what something is must be out the window, and the item can only be sold for the quality that was put into making it, without a name attached if you are uncertain.

Honesty is the best policy, an honest person would sell something as Unknown rather than speculate and attach a false label. It really matters not if you are educated on the subject or not, when you attach a name to any item to increase it's value, you have responsibility after the sale.

I think way too many people forget the value of ones word. People who are intentionally deceptive or even just ignorant are viewed in the same manner where their reputation is concerned. We all see those people who's world gets smaller and smaller everyday due to their dishonest behavior, and dirty business deals right here on AZ.

I think an honest man would take a measure of responsibility if they authenticated an item that was proved to be a fraud anytime later. Also in my opinion if you sell an item and attach a name to it, whether you realize it or not you have just offered an authentication.

If you are the first seller who brings an item into the market, that is proved not to be as described later at a minimum, you should take responsibility and buy the item back until the dispute can be settled.

If you get stuck, thats the chance we all take, because we all take a loss once in a while, it is just the nature of the beast, and your reputation is worth far more than the lost money.

Just my thoughts!!!!!!
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manwon, great thoughts sir! and this thread reminds me of forgeries in art worth in the 10's if not 100's of millions, previously authenticated works, but realized later as forgeries. i believe that in most cases the auction house or seller is left responsible.

buying from a 'dealer' then, would therefore make the dealer responsible. though when buying from an individual, my gut feeling is 'caveat emptor', unless deceit is, or can be proven clearly evident.

just my thoughts.
smokey
 
If as a buyer, I paid for a SW, and found out I didn't get a SW, I would try to get my money back from the dealer saying that a mistake has been made so lets start over. This should be done ASAP. A dealer intent on doing good business should have no issue with this. A dealer who doesn't want to resolve the problem ain't a good business person. As buyers, we should make efforts to educate ourselves as well. This example isn't about a 1973 chevy caprice sold as is (which should be a buyer beware). It is about getting what you pay for. If you buy something to resell, you should authenticate before reselling, and if you have been lied to, take it up with who tried to scam you. Not a easy thing. Good luck to all.
 
As SELLERS we own what we say. We ARE accountable.

Acknowlged and corrected errors are forgivable.

Intent, or lack thereof, is key.
 
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smart (reputable) dealer

classiccues said:
This is all very true. Which is why a smart (reputable) dealer gets his cue authenticated BEFORE he resells it. Had a cue I had been flagged in a forum I would have pulled the cue immediately from the site, instead of some lame a$$ lie about selling it because of the thread.



All this is true and again if I had an item and one of the owners told me an item was not how I described it, I would have taken the item down before I looked like more of an a$$ than I already was.

JV
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Just my .02 here.

In dealing with people on this site since I have joined, I have learned to follow many threads (this is an extremely good example) and have begun to develop a "feel" for the character of the posters involved. Having done business with several of the posters of this particular thread, I can easily vouch for their integrity (my I-trader gives up their names), however, had I never had dealings with any of them, this thread as well as others they have posted in would indicate to me that their character is such that I would feel safe in the event of a deal not quite being what was perceived at the onset.



good rep points to all of you.

Danny
 
I'm surprised this thread didn't get more mileage. It is a subject that has deep and meaning merit to it. I would like to have the sellers speak directly as to what they would do in this situation.
 
I'VE SOLD AT LEAST 20 KC CUES AS SW'S..... IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS LOOKED DOWN UPON????:eek: :D :eek: :D JUST KIDDING GUYS.

THE SELLER NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT HE HAS AND STAND BEHIND IT, ERRORS ARE FORGIVABLE.
 
This are tough questions, but it boils down to 2 things:

1. Only deal with people you trust, and

2. Know what you are buying...
 
Dawgie said:
I'm surprised this thread didn't get more mileage. It is a subject that has deep and meaning merit to it. I would like to have the sellers speak directly as to what they would do in this situation.
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Which situation? Unfortunately we aren't living in a Utopian society. Ideally there should be no error's in reselling. Someone at sometime in the lineage of a cue has decided to improve the selling status of the cue by inserting a fabrication. How far back, number of buyers, will the cue travel upon a return scenario?

How many dealers, or anyone for that matter, get the name and phone number of every person he buys a cue from? You're at a trade show and buying / selling / trading is done on the spot, fast paced. Sometimes that dealer, or person, has traveled many miles so backtracking a sale might be a pipe dream.

Lets take a bad deal scenario.. KC gets sold as a SW. Buyer is 6th down the line. Finds out it's fake and whats the chances of him getting restitution from A- private person, B- dealer? MY bet is if A is a friend or someone he knows chances are good. If A- is unknown pool player the buyer is SOL, IMHO. B- Any good dealer would take it back, BUT what if it is at a show and the buyer doesn't see the dealer till the next show? So many ugly things can happen, people really need to stop taking chances.

People can only retell the information they are told when buying and selling. However there are some that taint that information into a more sale friendly scenario. You know the listing, work done by cuemaker A- when it's really cuemaker B-. Cue has never hit a ball, yet the cue is clearly shown on a known cue-refinishing site as having been refinished. Get clarification when buying a cue. Never hit a ball? Since when, yesterday, since a restoration, since Kennedy was in office? Mint condition. Who's mint? Remember grading is subjective. Did someone work on the cue other than a cuesmith. Believe it or not there is someone that considers his own touch up as not a big deal. But believe me, if I buy a Boti and someone took a marker to it and didn't tell me, they would look awfully funny walking around with a piece of delrin protruding from their a$$. Look for people (dealers) that have a money back guarantee and DO NOT BE AFRAID TO USE IT. If you don't like it, send it back. Don't be afraid to clarify the deal via e-mail before the purchase. E-mail is considered in writing, so in essence you have all you'll need once you pull the trigger.

JV
 
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