Look what one of our fellow Az'rs did

P

pimp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I'd like to show all my fellow Az'rs what one of our own BPG24 did to us. I ran a fair raffle in which everyone had a chance to win. Well now he has complained to paypal because he didn't like how the raffle was ran. Anyone on here that has done any type of buisness or met me in person will say I'm a stand up guy. Guycrunch even sent me an expensive cue to try and see if I liked it before I paid for it. I tried it out for a few days it wasn't what I was looking for so I had a new Moori installed on it and sent it back. How many people could you really trust to not screw you over if you did that. The only thing I did do wrong was when I went to mark paid beside one guy I wrote his name in bold print a second time by mistake. I stated earlier we'd do the raffle as soon as everyone was paid. Everyone was paid on fri night so the raffle went off on sat.

Here is the exact complaint he filed with paypal trying to get this site to ban raffles which are a fun way for all of us to sweat a little something from time to time.

From Buyer - Nathan Hogue
11/9/2008 15:01 PST

Where do I begin? First of all I have had several conversations with the seller, we will not be able to come to a resolution on our own.

This dispute will begin a much bigger investigation by Paypal, I am sure. The website www.azbilliards.com has a sub page that is their "forums" page. They hold raffles there for pool related items. They use the lottery websites to determine the winner of these raffles. If you do a little research you will see that Paypal is being used for payment on all of these transactions. I have been told recently that these raffles are illegal and the owners/moderators of the website know this and let it continue. Here is a link to the specific raffle page with many raffles that are open and already completed. Paypal is used in every one of them.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73

there have been several raffles that have been rigged or somewhat unfair and that is why I want a refund. i was in a raffle that was not run correctly and I am not interested in losing my money this way.

Please look into this and make sure these raffles stop and refund my payment.

Thank you


Does anyone think this guy would be complaining if his number had been drawn?
 
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Well.. I guess that all depends on how the # was pulled...

I dont really see how you could rigg it if you used a lotto number...

I am going to guess that he saw, or thinks he saw, some number switching or something.
 
I knew this would eventually happen with the raffles. I'm completely against the raffles and would never participate in one, but I guess it comes down to if you're going to hold raffles, be prepared for situations like this to arise. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, just saying that many people on this forum said problems would come along due to the raffles. I don't think this thread belongs in the main forum, it belongs in the "Raffle" forum. Alot of people on here have said they don't like or approve of the raffles and AZ even gave the raffles their own sticky, so I, and i'm sure many others, would appreciate keeping threads like this in that forum.
 
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BPG24 is the user and he thinks I can control the powerball numbers. HMM lets think about this. I'm not to sure what would I do..HMMM win the lottery or screw over a few guys in a phoney raffle. Yeah thats a tough choice.

I personally think raffles are a great idea. there are alot of people that might not ever be able to afford a $1000 plus cue and raffles can give a person like that a chance to win something they may cherish forever.
 
I like the raffles. but not only that paypal is used for alot of other things on here and I would hate to see it ruined by 1 person. I hope this gets resolved.
 
I never pay for raffles because I always assume they're all rigged. I DID like, however, how you used the powerball. That kind of takes the BS out of it, right? Doesn't the buyer pick the #? How on earth can it be rigged?

I'm not jumping to conclusions because I don't know everything, although it looks like you did the right thing.

I got robbed at the local Jiffy Lube out of $30, but it's not even worth my blood pressure to go and fight for it. Solution is simple: If you don't like the raffle, just don't play again. Don't ruin it for those who like it.
 
pimp said:
Well I'd like to show all my fellow Az'rs what one of our own BPG24 did to us. I ran a fair raffle in which everyone had a chance to win. Well now he has complained to paypal because he didn't like how the raffle was ran. Anyone on here that has done any type of buisness or met me in person will say I'm a stand up guy. Guycrunch even sent me an expensive cue to try and see if I liked it before I paid for it. I tried it out for a few days it wasn't what I was looking for so I had a new Moori installed on it and sent it back. How many people could you really trust to not screw you over if you did that. The only thing I did do wrong was when I went to mark paid beside one guy I wrote his name in bold print a second time by mistake. I stated earlier we'd do the raffle as soon as everyone was paid. Everyone was paid on fri night so the raffle went off on sat.

Here is the exact complaint he filed with paypal trying to get this site to ban raffles which are a fun way for all of us to sweat a little something from time to time.

From Buyer - Nathan Hogue
11/9/2008 15:01 PST

Where do I begin? First of all I have had several conversations with the seller, we will not be able to come to a resolution on our own.

This dispute will begin a much bigger investigation by Paypal, I am sure. The website www.azbilliards.com has a sub page that is their "forums" page. They hold raffles there for pool related items. They use the lottery websites to determine the winner of these raffles. If you do a little research you will see that Paypal is being used for payment on all of these transactions. I have been told recently that these raffles are illegal and the owners/moderators of the website know this and let it continue. Here is a link to the specific raffle page with many raffles that are open and already completed. Paypal is used in every one of them.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73

there have been several raffles that have been rigged or somewhat unfair and that is why I want a refund. i was in a raffle that was not run correctly and I am not interested in losing my money this way.

Please look into this and make sure these raffles stop and refund my payment.

Thank you


Does anyone think this guy would be complaining if his number had been drawn?
Click to expand...

The part that I find absolutely hilarious about this, if you copied his exact words (copy and paste), WHY would anybody write an argument and not use proper typing skills. Capitalizing words and what not go a long way.

I had a great story from a buddy of mine. He threw an ad on craigslist to give something away for free. He waited for about 15 people to respond back and gave it to the person that had the proper skills of writing an email.

If I was Paypal and received a complaint letter that wasn't formal, I would just laugh. A close comparison would be sending a resume in that looked like crap or what not. I have been involved with recruiting and it is absolutely hilarious some of the stuff you see and the way people present themselves. No wonder they are job hunting.
 
Nowhere in my letter does it say that this raffle was rigged..................................

BUT,

Anyone with any common sense can see what was wrong with the raffle. It is even different than all of the other raffles run by the same person. You guys can look it up yourself.

I gave the seller many chances to fix the problem. He refused, so I contacted the mods and was told they want nothing to do with it because money is involved which I guess would make them liable.

paypal is just one of the places that has/will be informed about this issue. I will not let this die until I know it can't happen again.

I took screenshots etc. to prove that I am not lying just in case anyone edited or deleted what happened.

And for the couple of morons who think this is about loosing, please do a little research before you make yourself look any more stupid. I have been in a BUNCH of these raffles, always pay fast, always lose, no big deal. Losing has absolutely nothing to do with this. If I wanted the damn cue that bad I would have either just bought one or bought a whole lot more spots in the raffle.

This forum is obviously not capable of policing itself when money is involved, given all of the scams, and bad deals that are going on. I have had several great transactions on here and only one with issues. The one with issues was with a well respected member so I never said a word publicly since I knew it would get no where. This time I am not letting it go.
 
BPG24 said:
Nowhere in my letter does it say that this raffle was rigged..................................

BUT,

Anyone with any common sense can see what was wrong with the raffle. It is even different than all of the other raffles run by the same person. You guys can look it up yourself.

I gave the seller many chances to fix the problem. He refused, so I contacted the mods and was told they want nothing to do with it because money is involved which I guess would make them liable.

paypal is just one of the places that has/will be informed about this issue. I will not let this die until I know it can't happen again.

I took screenshots etc. to prove that I am not lying just in case anyone edited or deleted what happened.

And for the couple of morons who think this is about loosing, please do a little research before you make yourself look any more stupid. I have been in a BUNCH of these raffles, always pay fast, always lose, no big deal. Losing has absolutely nothing to do with this. If I wanted the damn cue that bad I would have either just bought one or bought a whole lot more spots in the raffle.

This forum is obviously not capable of policing itself when money is involved, given all of the scams, and bad deals that are going on. I have had several great transactions on here and only one with issues. The one with issues was with a well respected member so I never said a word publicly since I knew it would get no where. This time I am not letting it go.
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Well? What happened? I'm lost.
 
Seems like you were pretty clear on when it would take place in that thread so I don't see what the problem was.

The only thing that could have made it different is if you didn't do the raffle so fast after it filled up. You could have done it on the next Powerball drawing just to cover your ass. Either way the rules were clear to me.
 
no surprise

It has been general knowledge to almost all that the raffles are illegal. All it takes is one unhappy person to rock the boat. The raffle sub-forum may have to go away. Since AZB obviously knows of the existence of this illegal activity and condones it, AZB itself is at risk also. BPG24's actions may have far more wide reaching repercussions than he expects. Once you stir crap it is always hard to know how far the stink will go. Perhaps he doesn't care.

Hu
 
BPG24 said:
please read my post above....
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Why don't you just explain in detail what was wrong with the raffle... other than being totally illegal in the first place...Don't want to look it up!... Where's the link?
 
ShootingArts said:
It has been general knowledge to almost all that the raffles are illegal. All it takes is one unhappy person to rock the boat. The raffle sub-forum may have to go away. Since AZB obviously knows of the existence of this illegal activity and condones it, AZB itself is at risk also. BPG24's actions may have far more wide reaching repercussions than he expects. Once you stir crap it is always hard to know how far the stink will go. Perhaps he doesn't care.

Hu
Click to expand...


Look man, I tried to get it worked out HERE first.
 
Bigjohn said:
Why don't you just explain in detail what was wrong with the raffle... other than being totally illegal in the first place...Don't want to look it up!... Where's the link?
Click to expand...


the problem is that there is no way anyone can tell if the raffle is legit or not.

Let me explain.

There is no link to any website for the drawing

There is no mention of when the raffle will take place. Other than he says when the spots are paid for it will happen.

He never told anyone that the spots were paid or that the raffle was happening. He just popped up and said there was a winner. i asked when it was going to happen and got no response beforehand.

He also has used different sites for the drawing on his auctions.
.......................................................................................

If you want to know more please look at the thread. Please keep in mind that the first post has been edited after the winner was picked.
 
BPG:

All we're asking is what specifically was wrong. That's all. You said something about posting screen-shots and no one has a clue what you're talking about.

I read this entire thread 3x and I still don't have a clue. Don't be cryptic, just spill the beans. What went wrong? I'm not drawing conclusions, I just want the info. :)

Dave

Edit:

You beat me to it. So a question is: If someone buys a slot and the powerball picked the winner, what can he edit to affect the outcome? If you buy slot 10 and the powerball wasn't 10, you know that and you know you're a loser. If he used multiple boards, it's prob to make sure he sells all the slots. If you buy 1,3,5, 15, 27 and powerball is 13....well, if he cheated someone it wasn't you.

I'm still lost. Maybe the slots weren't sold by the original powerball date and he moved the drawing to the next wed/sat and changed the post to reflect that?
 
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