Looking to start young

T

thephantom89

Registered
I'm a certified manual machinist got into machining when I was in high school. I have about 400 hours of running and troubleshooting CNC lathes and mills (vertical and horizontal). When I finished my trade school Michigan's economy went to shit and the steel work all went over sea. I moved here to Tennessee and want to use my degree with my passion, pool. I see all these beautiful customs and own one my self then I have my production cues(joss, meucci, mcdermott, schön) which I have customized. But I want to get into the cue making business. I figure if I'm still a horrible player by the time I'm fifty (25yearsfrom now) at least I'll be able to make a beautiful cue and be around what I love still.

So this is what it boils down to. I'm gonna apply for a small business loan or grant, since I don't have to worry about the debt from my schooling cause I paid out the ass up front for that. But in order to apply I need ball park number as to what expenses and income would be. Any input, I.e. Numbers, list of equipment, type of equipment, etc. would help. And if there are any cue makers in Tennessee that would let me tour your shop that would be great or any other makers that could show me their shop I might make a trip.
Thanks for reading any input will help! God bless

-Martine
P.s. If anyone has or knows of an apprenticeship opening I'm willing to start as a gear greaser and chip sweeper and work my way up, I may be young but I was taught the value of hard work young!
 
Martine, I suggest you try out repairs first .
Find a full-time job then do repairs.
There is no telling what your cue sales would be.
 
Most people getting into the cue business. Start as either a hobby or do it after retiring. It would be hard to make a living doing cues if you start out in debt. There has been several new cue makers who ended up scamming people out of money these last few years. I think most went into it honestly. Just couldn't make a go of it and got in over their heads. So there is no trust in anybody trying to get into the business.

The bright side is you have a marketable skill in the cue world. Finding someone who is an established cuemaker. Who wants to move into CNC or upgrade. My be looking for someone just like you.

Good luck on your endeavors and welcome to the addiction!

Larry
 
TomHay said:
Here is your answer if its not gone yet.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=378105

Good Luck on your venture
Click to expand...


Tom.... this is probably the best idea.....

The problem is that a starting out cue maker just doesn't think that you need all this equipment. Except for a machinist, not many people know what to do with it all anyway.

As for the cost, this is cheap compared to what you would spend over several years as you accumulate the necessary tools to do the job.......

I am starting my 5th year and I have spent twice this amount...............

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
Tom.... this is probably the best idea.....

The problem is that a starting out cue maker just doesn't think that you need all this equipment. Except for a machinist, not many people know what to do with it all anyway.

As for the cost, this is cheap compared to what you would spend over several years as you accumulate the necessary tools to do the job.......

I am starting my 5th year and I have spent twice this amount...............

Kim
Click to expand...

Kim,

LOL, I know what you are saying. I threw that out because if that price is upsetting he needs to go Joeys way and start with just repairs, which is an outstanding idea.

To borrow money to get IN the cue biz complete I would need 1 gun, 1 bullet and my head.
 
TomHay said:
Kim,

LOL, I know what you are saying. I threw that out because if that price is upsetting he needs to go Joeys way and start with just repairs, which is an outstanding idea.

To borrow money to get IN the cue biz complete I would need 1 gun, 1 bullet and my head.
Click to expand...

He might as well work at Starbucks.
At least he gets a check at the end of the month or so.
NOT MORE BILLS. :eek:

Do repairs. Join pool leagues . It'll keep you busy.
Once you have enough orders and you already opened the Pandora's box, you'll have no time to play except to test your cues.
 

Here's a simple plain-jane cue with flat minor 3/8-10 joint pin. It's cocobolo forearm and butt with birdseye maple handle. If I had purchased all materials from the same supplier, the wood would have cost me $21/ea, plus $10/ea for the shaft dowels. That's $62 in raw wood that still has to be turned into a cue. The joint pin would cost $10. The connecting screw for the "A" joint another $4. So before any rings or collars have been cut, we're up to $76. The black phenolic runs between $15-$20/ft, depending on size. I have two sizes in this cue. The rings are made by me, which means extra woods had to be bought to create them. I haven't figured up how much each ring costs or how much each phenolic collar costs. The supplier charges $4+ for the melamine ferrules, so add another $10. We're at $86+. The bumper is cheap at $.65, so $87. The finish I would estimate to cost at minimum $10.

We are right at $100 and it's only raw materials. How much time will it take to create this cue? What if a piece of wood goes bad, shaft doesn't work out, or you screw something up? How much do you want to sell a cue like this for? What do you need to get in order to clear a profit? Now begin factoring in the various glues, mixing cups and sticks for said glue, paper towels, cleaning chemicals, etc. Your equipment requires power, so you'll have that bill to add in. You may very well end up $200+ in this very simple cue, which leaves you plenty room for profit IF you get a good price and are willing to pay yourself peanut wages.

I build this cue quick. It's a staple design in my shop and i'm so comfortable with it that it's like driving or riding a bicycle, requires almost no thought. What I'm not counting is the hours spent over several months or years to bring the woods down to this size. Once you factor it all up, there's about a week of labor. I don't recall exactly what it was, but roughly 40hrs of labor between shopping/buying the wood to dropping the cue at the post office for ship. I'm 40hrs & $200 into this very simple cue. If I pay myself $10/hr, I break even and give the cue away for $400. Anything less is paying somebody to take it. I need to actually pay myself $17.50/hr. in order to make minimum wage, which means the cue would sell for $700. That's pretty in line with what most cue makers get for a cue like this, and still people complain that it's too expensive. Many get less. A few lucky ones get more because their reputation allows for it. Nobody gets enough to earn a solid middle-class lifestyle.

Point being, there's some perspective for you. Folks simply don't understand how much it actually costs to make cues. The machinery & initial set-up is trivial compared to the grand scheme. You're a young, educated, skilled man. Get a job that pays & then when you have some expendable income, give cue making a shot and enjoy it. Doing it right now will bust you. But don't take my word for it. Do your own research and figures, and decide if it's feasible. Most of us have money outside of cues, and can afford to be cue makers. Very few can depend on cue making for a viable income, and those guys work themselves like dogs. It's a very enjoyable endeavor, but please don't take it lightly. I'm not here to crush your dreams. Keep the dream, just be smart about how you attain it.
 
That about sums it up accurately.
Thanx Eric, for taking the time to put it in that perspective.

KJ
 
Yep, Eric has it down.
IMHO you're best doing it as a hobby and repairs. Then if you actually sell a cue once in a while, you can become the local "cue man". But it takes a long time and lot of money - that's why it needs to be a hobby, because then it doesn't matter how much time and money, it's for the enjoyment.
My 2 cents,
Gary
 
Eric nailed it. If you rely soley on cue building you will be hungry most of the time. Unless you get to a point where you can turn out 4-5 Monster monster cues and grab 35k each, but like Eric stated, by the time you cost out materials plus the number of hours needed for such a cue, your still not doing that great.

Food for thought, although it is a great addiction, you will never test positive, unless they take skin cells and find exotic hardwood dust from a banned species lol.
 
I have 18 phenomenal shaft squ are for sale. But I'm not recognized as a vendor who overcharges so they aren't selling. :P

Too bad the JB shop sold so fast. A very solid deal there.
 
Cue making

On top of everything Eric and Joey have mentioned you need to take a hard look at the state of your local economy. This where it all begins or dissipates.


Mario
 
I myself was in a similar spot.

I decided late in life to go thru machine shop school for 2 reasons.

One,to get a good paying job,and eventually use it to finance my cuemaking venture.

Two,I KNEW I was going to have to know this stuff to be a cuemaker.

I had already been using my 2 lathes to do repairs for years before I started school,so I had somewhat of a head start,plus I knew stuff I learned from my late grandfather,plus this wonderful site.

But,a couple things changed before I finished.

One,I had to deal with an instructor change,which left me by my estimation about 40% short of what I should have left school with as far as knowledge AND skill,and perhaps even employability.

The other was the same as MANY other Americans,and related to the overall economy,particularly in my area.

About 8 months before I graduated,I had 2 local shop managers tell me to call them as soon as I graduated for a job,based on parts I had on display.

Before that happened,the entire economy crashed,leaving both of those shops that offered me jobs laying people off and eliminating 2nd shift.

This was compounded by the Goodyear plant here closing. EVERY shop within 50 miles was constantly building or repairing something for Goodyear.

Once it closed,all the shops slowed down,and a couple even closed or were bought out.

So now,if a good job in a nice shop were to come available,there are 50-75 guys with 10 years or more in on the job experience looking to fill that job,and even as skilled and knowledgable as I am,that's impossible to compete with.

I hope in your case you are in a better part of TN than I am (upper left corner). Tommy D.
 
I really want to thank you all for the great input , and also I'd like to say I true oh respect and honor your work and efforts. I have something in the works to where I may be able to make the dream of becoming a master cue crafter while working for a great company. Wish me luck and thanks again!!!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top