Low Deflection Shaft for Beginner
- Thread starter bigruss
- Start date
I believe just the opposite.
Using a low deflection shaft makes it easier to pocket balls, particularly when using English. Any advantage an entry-level player can get is HUGE.
There is a learning curve when going from a 1pc. shaft to a LD because basically you have to 'un-learn' what a 1pc. shaft has taught your sub-conscious. This process is eliminated for an entry-level player BECAUSE they have no frame of reference.
Once this player has learned to pocket with a LD shaft and now wants to try a 1pc. shaft, the re-learning applies.
That's when they realize what low deflection really is.
Using a low deflection shaft makes it easier to pocket balls, particularly when using English. Any advantage an entry-level player can get is HUGE.
There is a learning curve when going from a 1pc. shaft to a LD because basically you have to 'un-learn' what a 1pc. shaft has taught your sub-conscious. This process is eliminated for an entry-level player BECAUSE they have no frame of reference.
Once this player has learned to pocket with a LD shaft and now wants to try a 1pc. shaft, the re-learning applies.
That's when they realize what low deflection really is.
What he said. imo starting out with a ld shaft is the way to go
Yep. Didn't somebody say that Efren can't play with an LD shaft b/c he just can't get used to it? I hear that.
He has been pocketing balls for 50 odd years on a normal shaft.
Hard to "unlearn" that imo.
Go with a LD shaft. But play around with a stripe ball instead of a cue ball to see what kind of spins you are putting on the ball.
He has been pocketing balls for 50 odd years on a normal shaft.
Hard to "unlearn" that imo.
Go with a LD shaft. But play around with a stripe ball instead of a cue ball to see what kind of spins you are putting on the ball.
makes sense to start off with the easier shaft to play with
It makes sense to start with the easier equipment to play with. The silliest thing I see and I see it a lot, is people saying they are not good enough to need good equipment. What they don't realize is that it is many times harder to learn on bad equipment. They don't need a cue dripping with ivory, they do need a well made cue.
They don't have to have a low deflection shaft and in the final analysis they aren't better, just easier to play with. However, many would feel that easier to play with is better especially for a beginner. I have started out many beginners. Those that do well are much more inclined to continue. Those that struggle and struggle usually give up. Many top players are playing with low deflection shafts simply because it is easier for people even at the pro level to predict what the cue ball will do when it's path is straighter. Seems like time to apply the KISS principle.
Hu
It makes sense to start with the easier equipment to play with. The silliest thing I see and I see it a lot, is people saying they are not good enough to need good equipment. What they don't realize is that it is many times harder to learn on bad equipment. They don't need a cue dripping with ivory, they do need a well made cue.
They don't have to have a low deflection shaft and in the final analysis they aren't better, just easier to play with. However, many would feel that easier to play with is better especially for a beginner. I have started out many beginners. Those that do well are much more inclined to continue. Those that struggle and struggle usually give up. Many top players are playing with low deflection shafts simply because it is easier for people even at the pro level to predict what the cue ball will do when it's path is straighter. Seems like time to apply the KISS principle.
Hu
For a beginner, I don't thing the emphasis should be put on equiptment. More importantly, someone needs to make sure they have good fundamentals so they can develop good habits.
Pros have shown us that you can play world class with any cue. Johhny and Efren play just fine with maple shafts and Mika/DennisO play great with the LD variety. Even though they SAY they can't adjust to the other type, I think it should read they dont WANT to take the time to adjust. I am certain that if there was only one cue left on earth and it was a predator, within months Johnny would play great with it. Same goes for Mika/Dennis with a standard shaft.
I am not discounting that the LD shafts squirt less, I just don't think its a huge benefit. I played with a LD shaft for 3 years and the thing I hated was the way I couldn't play with ANY other cue. I have been back to a standard shaft for about 4 years and now I can pick up any cue and within 15 minutes, I'm adjusted fine.
Again for a beginner, I think the shaft choice is unimportant. Give a man a fish....etc etc.
Ian
Pros have shown us that you can play world class with any cue. Johhny and Efren play just fine with maple shafts and Mika/DennisO play great with the LD variety. Even though they SAY they can't adjust to the other type, I think it should read they dont WANT to take the time to adjust. I am certain that if there was only one cue left on earth and it was a predator, within months Johnny would play great with it. Same goes for Mika/Dennis with a standard shaft.
I am not discounting that the LD shafts squirt less, I just don't think its a huge benefit. I played with a LD shaft for 3 years and the thing I hated was the way I couldn't play with ANY other cue. I have been back to a standard shaft for about 4 years and now I can pick up any cue and within 15 minutes, I'm adjusted fine.
Again for a beginner, I think the shaft choice is unimportant. Give a man a fish....etc etc.
Ian
It's a big difference - between low squirt and high squirt shafts your aim changes by a ball's width or more on some shots.
I think anybody, even pros who have used high squirt cues all their lives, would be at least a little more accurate with less squirt if they could spare the down time to get used to it.
But I think the biggest challenge in aiming is swerve - teaching beginners how to avoid that as much as possible may be even more valuable than low squirt.
pj
chgo
I think anybody, even pros who have used high squirt cues all their lives, would be at least a little more accurate with less squirt if they could spare the down time to get used to it.
But I think the biggest challenge in aiming is swerve - teaching beginners how to avoid that as much as possible may be even more valuable than low squirt.
pj
chgo
LD shaft all the way
Someone else posted that fundementals are more important than equiptment and while fundementals is huge, for a beginner they have to work to form good basics so, until that happens a LD shaft takes away some of the problems they will have with basics. If you get good enough to where you have the basics down and understand deflection etc then try a standard shaft. It is an adjustment for certain but as with anything else if you put in the effort you will see the results IMO
Someone else posted that fundementals are more important than equiptment and while fundementals is huge, for a beginner they have to work to form good basics so, until that happens a LD shaft takes away some of the problems they will have with basics. If you get good enough to where you have the basics down and understand deflection etc then try a standard shaft. It is an adjustment for certain but as with anything else if you put in the effort you will see the results IMO
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I got my pool table at the end of March. My son started playing about the middle of April. He's been playing steady since then, several times a week, and he's been using one of my McDermotts with the standard McD shaft. He has made a lot of progress and has a good eye for shot selection and the pocket. Since he hadn't done the cue any damage and he's been responsible with the table and equipment, I decided to trust him with the more expensive I-2 shaft. I just swapped the shafts out while we were playing (we'd been shooting for about an hour) without telling him why I was swapping the shaft.
He shot better with the low deflection shaft. He had better cue ball control and he was making shots that he was missing before the swap.
Bottom line was in a blind test, the ld shaft improved a beginners performance.
He shot better with the low deflection shaft. He had better cue ball control and he was making shots that he was missing before the swap.
Bottom line was in a blind test, the ld shaft improved a beginners performance.
I agree with what you've said about investing in Scott Lee, rather than equipment. He can get your mechanics on the right track, and mechanics is the key to consistency.
As far as your aim not changing when using different shafts, I find that a little hard to believe. You may be making adjustments on a sub concious level, not realizing it. Do you use BHE, FHE, or Parallel English?
I think using Parallel English, you should see a big difference in your aim going from a regular shaft to an LD.
The adjustment might not be as noticeable when using Back Hand English or FHE.
Check out Joe's side spin work outs on this web page:
http://www.joetucker.net/side_spin_workouts.htm
You've probably seen a shot that Joe Tucker is pretty good at, where the OB is frozen to the center diamond of the foot rail, and the CB is lined up with the center diamond on the head string.
Shooting that shot will help you gauge the amount of aim adjustment on different shafts.
I find that it is more beneficial to not use LD shafts. To me, LD shafts are totally not necessary. It is possible, very possible to learn to play excellent pool without the aid of technology. I am a fairly serious player, however, and I have over 20+ years of experience.
What you have to ask yourself is what kind of player do you want to be? Do you want to be the kind of player that aims for the pro tour? or, are you a one pocket player? are you a young person? or older? what kind of knowledge do you have?
I agree with KJ to a certain extent. He is right from his point of view. I also agree with PJ. I find that he posts things that are incredibly difficult to object to. I tried both predator and OB. I played 3142 for a while and I though it was the way to go. It did work well for me, but I believe that the world of LD is a much smaller world compared to that of a normal playing shaft. It limits your ability and you simply have to play pool differently. Your body, and mind are natural adjusting mechanisms. You can teach yourself to adjust quite well to normal shafts which, then you will have the ability to easily to adjust to a LD shaft if you wanted to go that way, but will have a hard time re-adjusting if going from LD to regular.
What you have to ask yourself is what kind of player do you want to be? Do you want to be the kind of player that aims for the pro tour? or, are you a one pocket player? are you a young person? or older? what kind of knowledge do you have?
I agree with KJ to a certain extent. He is right from his point of view. I also agree with PJ. I find that he posts things that are incredibly difficult to object to. I tried both predator and OB. I played 3142 for a while and I though it was the way to go. It did work well for me, but I believe that the world of LD is a much smaller world compared to that of a normal playing shaft. It limits your ability and you simply have to play pool differently. Your body, and mind are natural adjusting mechanisms. You can teach yourself to adjust quite well to normal shafts which, then you will have the ability to easily to adjust to a LD shaft if you wanted to go that way, but will have a hard time re-adjusting if going from LD to regular.
There are both advantages and disadvantages to a low-squirt shaft. I don't think a beginner would notice, but it might help them (without them noticing) when they use English (intentionally or not).
Regards,
Dave
BHE = back hand english = setting up for a centerball hit then moving the grip hand (back hand) sideways to apply english and compensate for squirt/swerve at the same time. Works best with higher squirt cues where the "pivot point" is somewhere near the bridge. An approximation that must be fine-tuned by feel.
FHE = front hand english = setting up for a centerball hit then moving the bridge hand (front hand) sideways to apply english and compensate for squirt/swerve at the same time. Works best with lower squirt cues where the "pivot point" is substantially behind the bridge. An approximation that must be fine-tuned by feel.
Parallel English = a bad name ("parallel" doesn't really apply) for simply placing both hands as necessary to apply english and compensate for squirt/swerve. Works with any cue, but is done entirely by feel and can be more of a challenge for some players without the initial approximation provided by BHE or FHE.
All of these are different ways of getting your cue to the same position. Only one cue position will produce the exact shot and spin you want.
pj
chgo
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Its amazing how many people in pool are so against changes and technology. Especially when EVERY other sport has used technology
advancements to help bring in and keep participants.
Equipment and rule changes as well as variations all have to be allowed at least a chance to take place.
As for the orignal question -- I have seen first hand that taking newer player and even some "just not that good "players and swapping to a LD shaft makes a world of difference.
Nothing subs for good fundamentals but a LD shaft can help newbies.
advancements to help bring in and keep participants.
Equipment and rule changes as well as variations all have to be allowed at least a chance to take place.
As for the orignal question -- I have seen first hand that taking newer player and even some "just not that good "players and swapping to a LD shaft makes a world of difference.
Nothing subs for good fundamentals but a LD shaft can help newbies.
We're interested in how much squirt a shaft produces, not how much it deflects (shaft deflection has little to do with cue ball squirt). You can call them high deflection or low deflection shafts if you want, but that's not really useful information.
pj
chgo
On the contrary.......
Efren CAN play with LD shafts, but he doesnt like how they feel. Its funny cuz he's tried paying with a predator shaft and he still pockets like a beast, but he just doesnt like the feel....so he says
As for me of course the transition was at first extremely off. I tried an OB-1 back in 06 and ended up selling it and then getting another one at the beginning of this year, retapering it to my preference and now all I use are OB-1's or OB-2's but I can easily transition and adjust from the LD shaft to a standard shaft no problem...strange
Efren CAN play with LD shafts, but he doesnt like how they feel. Its funny cuz he's tried paying with a predator shaft and he still pockets like a beast, but he just doesnt like the feel....so he says
As for me of course the transition was at first extremely off. I tried an OB-1 back in 06 and ended up selling it and then getting another one at the beginning of this year, retapering it to my preference and now all I use are OB-1's or OB-2's but I can easily transition and adjust from the LD shaft to a standard shaft no problem...strange
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