Low Deflection Shaft

R

RD123

New member
I've been playing pool seriously for about 7 mos now. My kids bought me a CF cue with a low deflection shaft. It took a while to get used to but I persevered.

Besides the sleek look of the cue I fail to see how this would improve my game. My $100 Dufferin, regular deflection cue suited me just fine. I was used to using my old Dufferin cue and had adjusted to the deflection and hit of this cue. As far as I can tell all that has happened is I now have a $400 cue that took a few weeks to get used to but hasn't improved my game any. I still have to adjust for deflection albeit less deflection but I fail to see how adjusting to different cue would help anything except I am now using a sharp looking cue.

I feel if I put a hockey stick on a lathe and ground it down put a tip on it, I could adjust and play just as well.

Convince me otherwise.

Didn't Efren win many of his titles with a normal wooden cue?
 
I wouldn't go so far as taking a lathe to a hockey stick but I agree with you as shooting just as well with any cue you get used too. I grew up with house cues and some hit (feel) better than others. The newer modern shafts since the 90s Predators pretty much guarantee and I believe deliver a better feel when playing.

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RD123 said:
... Convince me otherwise. ...
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Dr. Dave has a lot of info on the advantages and disadvantages of low squirt (cue ball deflection) shafts.

If you do not use side spin to any significant extent, then I think the advantages are low.

If you do use side spin on a lot of shots, or a lot of side spin occasionally, I think low squirt is helpful especially when you are learning how to compensate your aim.

CF shafts have the advantage of easier maintenance.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Dr. Dave has a lot of info on the advantages and disadvantages of low squirt (cue ball deflection) shafts.
Click to expand...

For those interested, see:

Bob Jewett said:
If you do not use side spin to any significant extent, then I think the advantages are low.

If you do use side spin on a lot of shots, or a lot of side spin occasionally, I think low squirt is helpful especially when you are learning how to compensate your aim.
Click to expand...

Agreed.


Bob Jewett said:
CF shafts have the advantage of easier maintenance.
Click to expand...

For more info, see:
 
Personally have tried CF and low deflection wood shafts- I have not seen much difference in aiming from a regular maple shaft - some may feel different. It is an individual thing, and most people in life follow the herd anyhow, and a few get paid to lead the herd in a certain direction. I tend to make my own decisions about things based on my personal knowledge or experience.

For me, shaft tip, ferrule, shaft diameter, shaft taper, and shaft weight are the main concerns, as long as it is straight - so I sort of like being traditional with plain wood shafts that fit my liking.

Almost every sport is dominated by corporate marketers who need to hype equipment changes - supposedly backed by "scientific" facts- in order to generate new revenue streams. As for pool- the more I play the game after 60 years of doing so- the more I realize that my pool cue is probably 5 % of my game success - not much more than that.

I enjoy cues, because I enjoy cues- that simple- but I actually hate trying to turn a passion into a science- it spoils everything for me that I love about the game!
 
RADAR said:
At end of the day all LD shafts regardless it is wood laminate, carbon or kielwood it is all marketing hype and its not enough difference to make most people play better. Heck done my share damage with a Kmart Budweiser cue years ago.
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Incorrect.... My LD wx900 is a "non-laminated" single piece shaft with a drilled out core. Not all are created in the same fashion.
 
mikemosconi said:
Personally have tried CF and low deflection wood shafts- I have not seen much difference in aiming from a regular maple shaft - some may feel different.
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Interesting... This may just boil down to how you play the game. However nearly all the players I know can quickly note the varying squirt generating characteristics between solid maple and the various LD shafts. I can't imagine you could hit a standard maple shaft vs a Z2 and not see the immense difference in aim compensation.
mikemosconi said:
It is an individual thing, and most people in life follow the herd anyhow, and a few get paid to lead the herd in a certain direction. I tend to make my own decisions about things based on my personal knowledge or experience.
Click to expand...
There's also a group of people that simply refuse to adopt a change for no other reason then making an effort to avoid being apart of the supposed herd...lol ;)
mikemosconi said:
For me, shaft tip, ferrule, shaft diameter, shaft taper, and shaft weight are the main concerns, as long as it is straight - so I sort of like being traditional with plain wood shafts that fit my liking.
Click to expand...
Again, interesting.... I don't know the manufacturer of my tip. Only that it started out as a medium (I think) and has become hard. No clue to the material type of my ferrule. My shaft diameter ended up being smaller than I wanted when it was turned down (meh). Zero idea what the shaft weighs. I do know I prefer conical tapers. So other than the conical taper and the shaft diameter being creature comforts. I couldn't care less about those factors.

Could I play with a solid maple shaft...?..., most certainly. Would I...?..., if I was being paid to lead the herd of active non-conformists.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you do not use side spin to any significant extent, then I think the advantages are low.
Click to expand...
When I was being sold on the benefits of LD. My buddy at the time actually demonstrated the 'biggest benefit' being the opposite to what you're stating above.

What he showed me was that with either minor side english, you could literally aim the shot in the same fashion cutting the ball. So with solid maple and lets say a half tip of side english you could expect a certain level of squirt. As we all know, that squirt must be compensated for. However with the same amount of english, the LD shaft generated near zero CB squirt. Because of that, you could aim the shot in same fashion and not concern yourself with squirt compensation. The concept holds water.
Bob Jewett said:
If you do use side spin on a lot of shots, or a lot of side spin occasionally, I think low squirt is helpful especially when you are learning how to compensate your aim.
Click to expand...
This is the point where one could learn to use a standard deflection just as well. Standard deflection just is more sensitive to off center CB strikes, which ends up requiring a broader understanding of squirt correction factors. You could argue that solid maple players have a better grasp of the physics surround aim vs CB control.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Dr. Dave has a lot of info on the advantages and disadvantages of low squirt (cue ball deflection) shafts.

If you do not use side spin to any significant extent, then I think the advantages are low.

If you do use side spin on a lot of shots, or a lot of side spin occasionally, I think low squirt is helpful especially when you are learning how to compensate your aim.

CF shafts have the advantage of easier maintenance.
Click to expand...
If you are a pocket cheater AND use English,... you will enjoy a LD shaft. Getting "stuck" at 40 on a bankshot where you must use English to make the hit gives LD a mild advantage.
 
The_JV said:
So with solid maple and lets say a half tip of side english you could expect a certain level of squirt. As we all know, that squirt must be compensated for.
Click to expand...
What is the compensation and how much? A different aim point on the OB? I assume this is with parallel english. Could anything be done with an angled cue from CCB and is it the same compensation for aiming? What about distance differences between CB/OB/pocket?
 
The_JV said:
...with solid maple and lets say a half tip of side english you could expect a certain level of squirt.
... with the same amount of english, the LD shaft generated near zero CB squirt. Because of that, you could aim the shot in same fashion and not concern yourself with squirt compensation. The concept holds water.
Click to expand...
Different amounts of squirt = same aim?

Do tell...

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Different amounts of squirt = same aim?

Do tell...

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Sry, what I mean to say is that with small amounts of horizontal tip offset a LD shaft will not generate squirt to any notable amount vs a solid maple counterpart. ...so, for example you cut an OB 30 degrees. With LD your aim will not require adjustment based on what side english you place on the CB. However the solid maple shaft will generate squirt that needs compensation.

Again, and I can't stress this enough. This only applies to shots with minimal amounts of side english.
 
RD123 said:
I've been playing pool seriously for about 7 mos now. My kids bought me a CF cue with a low deflection shaft. It took a while to get used to but I persevered.

Besides the sleek look of the cue I fail to see how this would improve my game. My $100 Dufferin, regular deflection cue suited me just fine. I was used to using my old Dufferin cue and had adjusted to the deflection and hit of this cue. As far as I can tell all that has happened is I now have a $400 cue that took a few weeks to get used to but hasn't improved my game any. I still have to adjust for deflection albeit less deflection but I fail to see how adjusting to different cue would help anything except I am now using a sharp looking cue.

I feel if I put a hockey stick on a lathe and ground it down put a tip on it, I could adjust and play just as well.

Convince me otherwise.

Didn't Efren win many of his titles with a normal wooden cue?
Click to expand...

No need to convince you, you play how you play. This discussion has been going on since the beggining of time.

But think of it this way, the less you need to adjust for ANYTHING in life, the better it is. With a higher deflection cue, there are more variables you need to think about when aiming with spin. How far away the balls are, how much spin you are using, how hard are you hitting, etc... LD shafts take that guesswork and simplify it. Especially for newer players that have no idea why they are even missing spin shots.

Would a mechanic want to work on an engine that has 100 parts or 300? Is it easier to pick out a meal from a menu that has 6 items or 40? Would you rather find 6th and 14th street in a grid city or Main street in Boston without a map? Follow a 20 page document of instructions of a 3 page one? The less complex a task is, the better. LD makes aiming a less complex task. Now for those that have played a long time, it won't do much good, often due to basically old age grumpiness and stubbornness. But I have known a ton of players in their 40s/50s/60s/70s that swapped from their 20/30/40 yr old cues to modern ones and enjoyed playing more and improved.
 
I very much like CF shafts because they are ding resistant.

I can also leave them in my car forever and they don’t warp.

Otherwise it is preference.

Nobody here ever talks about using both low and normal deflection shafts regularly. Switching between is a skill just like learning to adjust for different table conditions.

I use a low deflection pool cue for pool and a normal carom cue for carom.

The skill is really in tip placement accuracy above all else.
 
RD123 said:
I've been playing pool seriously for about 7 mos now. My kids bought me a CF cue with a low deflection shaft. It took a while to get used to but I persevered.

Besides the sleek look of the cue I fail to see how this would improve my game. My $100 Dufferin, regular deflection cue suited me just fine. I was used to using my old Dufferin cue and had adjusted to the deflection and hit of this cue. As far as I can tell all that has happened is I now have a $400 cue that took a few weeks to get used to but hasn't improved my game any. I still have to adjust for deflection albeit less deflection but I fail to see how adjusting to different cue would help anything except I am now using a sharp looking cue.

I feel if I put a hockey stick on a lathe and ground it down put a tip on it, I could adjust and play just as well.

Convince me otherwise.

Didn't Efren win many of his titles with a normal wooden
Click to expand...

At 7 months into the game I wouldn't worry abut whether it is carbon fiber or wood, nor would I advise you to take some particular stance just. YES, a good player can play with anything. They'll play better with cues they are comfortable and confident with. Also, good players aren't rigid...they are always willing to experiment and try new cues/techniques/etc. For now, just stick with one cue, continue to play and learn....try to get your fundamental skills together.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What's the difference?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
You tell me what the difference is. Actually, get on the table with the CB on the spot. Do it both ways - parallel offset and angled offset. Set up CCB aimed at the middle diamond on the end rail. Strike the ball. If you have a straight stroke, it should hit the middle diamond and come straight back.

#2: Set up CCB at the middle diamond on the end rail. Then parallel shift 1/2 tip left with a normal tip size of 12.5 to 13mm. Strike the shot. Where does the CB strike the end rail before rebounding back with English taking affect?

#3: Set up CCB at the middle diamond on the end rail. Then pivot the cue with the backhand 1/2 tip to the left. With that slight angle strike the CB. Where does the CB strike the end rail before rebounding back with English taking affect?
This isn't just for PJ. You're all welcome to do it and see if anything is different.

Is there a difference? Where?
 
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