Madisonbob Untrusting Client Snowmon34
- Thread starter bob griffin
- Start date
Who is out the dime for COD?
Dale,
If the cues are shipped COD, that is what it means, cash on delivery. Back when I occasionally got something shipped in COD before everyone took plastic I couldn't even open a package before paying for it. Does Dave Hughes put up his money to receive the packages when he isn't involved? Do you give Dave the funds in the required form for the COD? All the receiver knows when they pay the COD fees is that they have received a package and the condition of the outside of the package. Hardly helpful. You might as well have a COD package shipped directly to you. Of course if you aren't really talking about cash on delivery then that opens another can of worms.
Thanks for the explanation of the dollars. I don't have a dog in this fight so I'm honestly a bystander, if a bit curious one. Here is a thought: Is there anyone you trust who lives close to Bob's shop that could inspect the cues prior to shipment? With such an inspection to make you feel comfortable with the quality of the cues, a true COD shipment seems more feasible than buying a little of a surprise package. Neither you or Bob trust the other one so the long distance dealings are greatly more complicated than normally.
Hu
Dale,
If the cues are shipped COD, that is what it means, cash on delivery. Back when I occasionally got something shipped in COD before everyone took plastic I couldn't even open a package before paying for it. Does Dave Hughes put up his money to receive the packages when he isn't involved? Do you give Dave the funds in the required form for the COD? All the receiver knows when they pay the COD fees is that they have received a package and the condition of the outside of the package. Hardly helpful. You might as well have a COD package shipped directly to you. Of course if you aren't really talking about cash on delivery then that opens another can of worms.
Thanks for the explanation of the dollars. I don't have a dog in this fight so I'm honestly a bystander, if a bit curious one. Here is a thought: Is there anyone you trust who lives close to Bob's shop that could inspect the cues prior to shipment? With such an inspection to make you feel comfortable with the quality of the cues, a true COD shipment seems more feasible than buying a little of a surprise package. Neither you or Bob trust the other one so the long distance dealings are greatly more complicated than normally.
Hu
snowmon34 said:
Hu, I am not sure you understood the original deal. As I understand it, Dale and two other friends decided to go in together to get three of Bob's cues. Dale negotiated from $375 each down to $350 each since he was making a multi-cue purchase. The deal was between Dale and Bob only.ShootingArts said:
$350 x 3 = $1050, and Bob always wants a 50% deposit, which would be $525. Dale sent the $525 to Bob and the agreement for the timeframe to complete the cues was 3 months per Dale, and 2-6 months per Bob, depending on who you believe.
Well the promised delivery time comes and goes and after 7+ months Bob says the cues will be ready in 7-10 days and to send the balance due. Dale and friends had not been happy with the way the deal had been handled by Bob all along and felt they had been lied to about some things during the 7+ months, and had also heard on the forums where others had felt they had been scammed by Bob. They decided they wanted pictures of the finished cues to make sure they were actually there before they sent the remainder of the money. Bob flipped out about this and hem hawed around and then finally relented after a couple of weeks and said he would send pictures of the cues when they were completed.
Bob then says he lost the paperwork on the deal and wants Dale to send him a copy of the $525 deposit check, which Dale does. Bob then says this was not right, the original deal was for $375 each for a total of $1125, and that the deposit should have been $562.50.
By this time Dale's two friends no longer felt comfortable with the deal and said forget it, they no longer wanted their cues. Dale contacted Bob to let him know both friends backed out, but that he still wanted his cue and would go ahead and take another one also, for a total of two cues, total cost of $700. Bob then refuses to communicate with Dale for a couple of weeks, and will not return phone calls, emails or PM's. Dale then posts about the situation on AzBilliards because Bob will not talk to him.
Bob flips out again and wants Dale to take all 3 cues at $375 each, Dale's says that he will take 2 at the original agreed to price of $350 each or just give his deposit back, and that he is no longer obligated to take all 3 or any for that matter since the promised delivery time had long passed. Bob then says he will have to sell the cues come up with the money to refund Dale's deposit, and that Dale should pay him a commission for having to sell the cues to compensate him for his trouble. Dale says no way, I will take 2 cues or refund my money in full.
Then Bob says he will allow Dale to only take 2 cues at $375 each, not $350 as Dale claims, and that Dale needs to send the money upfront with no verification that the cues even exist. Now Bob is again refusing to have ANY communication whatsoever with Dale. Dale has offered to go ahead and pay the $375 inflated price that Bob is claiming if he will send the cues to a mutual friend whom they both have done lots of business with, and that both of them know and trust well. Bob is still refusing to answer or communicate with Dale at all.
I recapped all from memory, so feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made Dale. Hope this cleared it up for you Hu.
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ShootingArts said:
Hu.....
When I say COD....I don't mean paying a delivery service ie. usps, ups, fedex etc.....Hu what I am proposing is Bob sends the cues to his close friend Dave here in my area.....I meet Dave and inspect the cues....if the cues are in acceptable condition, I will pay Dave the remainder of the balance owed. This plan protects both parties....It guarantees that Bob will have a 3rd party involved to inspect his cues, and it of course he will get his funds guaranteed......
Dale
Hu, it sounds as if you just didn't bother to read the whole thread. They have a friend that they both have done business with, and that they both know and trust. Dale has agreed that if Bob will ship the cues to this friend for inspection and proof that they exist, that he will pay Bob's full asking price of $375 each plus shipping, even though he believes this to be more than their original agreement was for.ShootingArts said:
It sounds like MORE than a fair offer from Dale. Bob refuses to respond. Personally I think Bob will not respond because there either never was any cues, or he has already sold the cues, and he either does not have the deposit, or does not want to give back the deposit.
Is there any chance of this thread developing into a movie?
I would like to be the judge and I'll pick the jury from AZB. Judging from Bob's writing my guess is that he also has trouble reading. So Bob being able to play himself would be impossible, he can't read the script.
Who wants to play Dale and who wants to play Bob? Maybe we could get TAR to do the filming. Pay per view.
I would like to be the judge and I'll pick the jury from AZB. Judging from Bob's writing my guess is that he also has trouble reading. So Bob being able to play himself would be impossible, he can't read the script.
Who wants to play Dale and who wants to play Bob? Maybe we could get TAR to do the filming. Pay per view.
Personally I think Bob will not respond because there either never was any cues, or he has already sold the cues. Now he either does not have the deposit money, or just does not want to give back the deposit money.snowmon34 said:
Whatever the case, since he has your $525, and since he is now refusing to communicate with you at all, this situation has now moved into the area of theft IMO.
Poolplaya9 said:
Poolplaya
I just wanted to clear the air....when My friends backed out I was still going to keep my end of the deal and take the 3 cues and pay for them myself....no big deal....The reason I wanted my money back was a combination of things that went wrong.....
1. Bob was unable to meet the delivery time of 3 months.....it took 8 months
2. When I asked for pictures when the cues were completed Bob ripped into me
3 Diana Bob's wife claimed that they lost my paper work and needed a copy of my check..so I emailed a receipt copy...later that day they found the paper work with a different price quote....Bob quoted my 350.00 per cue in June of 07.....Feb of 08 the price jumped to 375.00
at this point I wasn't interested in doing business with Bob.....I just wanted a refund....at that point all communication stopped on the phone.....they sent a few emails stating that they would refund my deposit. after I question my refund all communication stopped...
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Thanks for the corrections. I had actually caught a couple of errors and edited my post but it looks like you quoted it before the edit was done.snowmon34 said:
Bob You Need Talk To Dale Not Throw Out Coments TO Me Why Would You Answer Me And Not Him I Do Care About Peoples Health Even Yours I Dont Care For Poeple That Try And Cheat Someone And Ignor Him ....Pay Him His Money And Be A Man
That is what I thought
Dale,
That is what I thought you meant but that is a far cry from COD which is the term being used in this thread. Very little reason for anyone to object to shipping COD, the only risk is a lost payment on the return trip.
On the other hand if I thought someone was playing games as Bob seems to think about you, I would very much think twice about paying shipping to let you inspect cues, involving a friend and then very possibly having to pay return shipping to get the cues back. If someone doesn't actually want something and it is sent out subject to approval they can always find a real or imaginary reason to reject it. Do understand that I am not saying this is the case here or that you would do that. I'm just trying to show you and others reading this that shipping the cues even to Dave requires some trust in you on Bob's part.
It is almost impossible to deal long distance once trust is lost. I think Bob finding new buyers for the cues and sending you a full refund might be the best resolution for all involved. Understand that this may take time, I suspect Bob simply doesn't have the money to send and actually does have to sell something to refund your money. It shouldn't be hard at all to sell another cue however and the sale of two cues should more than cover your deposit. Neither of you will be real happy but both can move on.
Hu
snowmon34 said:
Dale,
That is what I thought you meant but that is a far cry from COD which is the term being used in this thread. Very little reason for anyone to object to shipping COD, the only risk is a lost payment on the return trip.
On the other hand if I thought someone was playing games as Bob seems to think about you, I would very much think twice about paying shipping to let you inspect cues, involving a friend and then very possibly having to pay return shipping to get the cues back. If someone doesn't actually want something and it is sent out subject to approval they can always find a real or imaginary reason to reject it. Do understand that I am not saying this is the case here or that you would do that. I'm just trying to show you and others reading this that shipping the cues even to Dave requires some trust in you on Bob's part.
It is almost impossible to deal long distance once trust is lost. I think Bob finding new buyers for the cues and sending you a full refund might be the best resolution for all involved. Understand that this may take time, I suspect Bob simply doesn't have the money to send and actually does have to sell something to refund your money. It shouldn't be hard at all to sell another cue however and the sale of two cues should more than cover your deposit. Neither of you will be real happy but both can move on.
Hu
well it looks like Bob doesn't have the cues (that was quick), and it appears that he is offering a 100% refund.....when and where I don't know.....Bob if you are offering me a full refund please respond and clarify....please don't send the refund via usps.....please send it by paypal and I will cover the 4% fee....my paypal address
snowmon34@yahoo.com
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90423&page=4
post # 52
Regards,
Dale
snowmon34@yahoo.com
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90423&page=4
post # 52
Regards,
Dale
Thanks
I don't doubt that but Dave isn't the one with anything to say in this matter. He would purely serve as a depot to receive the sticks according to Dale's offer. I have no idea if Dale would be fully objective appraising the sticks or not and in truth my opinion doesn't matter, Bob's does and that may be the sticking point. As I mentioned, neither party appears to trust the other and dealing long distance without some element of trust is almost impossible.
Hu
sixpack said:
I don't doubt that but Dave isn't the one with anything to say in this matter. He would purely serve as a depot to receive the sticks according to Dale's offer. I have no idea if Dale would be fully objective appraising the sticks or not and in truth my opinion doesn't matter, Bob's does and that may be the sticking point. As I mentioned, neither party appears to trust the other and dealing long distance without some element of trust is almost impossible.
Hu
Good Deal!
Glad this is fixing to turn into a cash deal, much cleaner for all concerned. One question about paypal, do you have an account that will let you receive that much cash? Looks like you are dealing a good bit so I guess you do. I haven't messed with paypal in years other than sending a major seller money now and then, I find them a pain and very unresponsive when you have a problem. I went around with them for six months when I moved and had to change an e-mail address.
Hu
Glad this is fixing to turn into a cash deal, much cleaner for all concerned. One question about paypal, do you have an account that will let you receive that much cash? Looks like you are dealing a good bit so I guess you do. I haven't messed with paypal in years other than sending a major seller money now and then, I find them a pain and very unresponsive when you have a problem. I went around with them for six months when I moved and had to change an e-mail address.
Hu
snowmon34 said:
snowmon34 said:
Dale, I hope you get a 100% refund. But at this point I have serious doubts that it will happen. Hope I'm wrong, but it
appears he is trying every way in this world to put everything off as you being at fault.
You didn't deserve the treatment you got from Mr. Griffin.
If you don't get your money back very soon you should consider contacting your local DA's office for advise.
the DA isn't interested
Dale,
Hopefully Bob does the paypal thing or sends you a certified check or postal money order via certified mail and ends this matter. If not odds are long on the DA being interested. Anything that is both a civil and criminal matter they are quick to reject unless it is a slamdunk case with major dollars or publicity involved. Been there with both local DA's in two jurisdictions and one 2000 miles away. The guy I contacted the DA about 2000 miles away had a thousand dollar deposit of mine and was over ten times later than he had promised completion of a custom he was making for me. No return of phone calls or e-mails, no contact at all. In the end I had to prove that I could track him to where he lived, not just his business, and that I was willing to travel to resolve the matter to get him to perform. The guy eventually had over eighty federal charges lodged against him, the local DA still wasn't interested.
In the case under discussion in this thread it is doubtful that any crime has been committed, even more doubtful that it could be proven a crime was committed. DA's don't mess with such cases.
Good luck, I hope this deal is over with.
Hu
snowmon34 said:
Dale,
Hopefully Bob does the paypal thing or sends you a certified check or postal money order via certified mail and ends this matter. If not odds are long on the DA being interested. Anything that is both a civil and criminal matter they are quick to reject unless it is a slamdunk case with major dollars or publicity involved. Been there with both local DA's in two jurisdictions and one 2000 miles away. The guy I contacted the DA about 2000 miles away had a thousand dollar deposit of mine and was over ten times later than he had promised completion of a custom he was making for me. No return of phone calls or e-mails, no contact at all. In the end I had to prove that I could track him to where he lived, not just his business, and that I was willing to travel to resolve the matter to get him to perform. The guy eventually had over eighty federal charges lodged against him, the local DA still wasn't interested.
In the case under discussion in this thread it is doubtful that any crime has been committed, even more doubtful that it could be proven a crime was committed. DA's don't mess with such cases.
Good luck, I hope this deal is over with.
Hu
