Magic Rack - Pet Peeve

As far as the rack interfering goes I have had no problem to offer my opponent help in getting it off the table. Of course, the offer would only be done at an appropriate time when it wouldn't interfere with his process, like say when he's putting down his break cue and picking up his player. But it's even occurred in tournament matches where my opponent is looking over the layout and clearly "perplexed" by a ball sitting on the rack. I just tell him if you want me to help you get the rack off the table and re-spot the ball, no problem. I just figure it's a foreign object on the bed and neither player should have to play around that obstacle if they don't want to. :wink:
 
Most players have a few seconds where they observe the layout before they're getting down on the 1 ball (or whichever).

So if the guy waits until you're down on the shot, his timing is suspicious, it could be to screw with you.

But if he simply starts walking up as soon as the break settles, that seems reasonable. You can't be so impatient that it wrecks your concentration to delay a few seconds before your first shot.
 
Maybe Oscar can chime in on this, the Turtle Rack is used exclusively on the Mezz Weststate Tour. I don't know if there is an official rule about picking up the rack, but I have seen Oscar remove the rack from the table when balls needed to be marked and replaced. I've never had a another play try to remove the rack while I was getting ready to shoot, but then again I have made it a habit to remove the rack after I break. If there is a ball(s) sitting on top it, using pieces of chalk to mark the balls seems the easiest to remove it. My feeling about leaving it on the table, after playing a half dozen events with it, it should be removed after the break, and should not be allow to be used to create a better safety.
 
I have never used one in competition. I have one I use at home all the time in practice. It stays on the table until it gets in the way and I just move it to a part of the table that isnt going to affect the shot using the tip of my cue.
 
With the Accu-Rack being polyester shooting balls across it at speed and using english has not caused any misses or issues to this point.... Our Very first big event the very first rack involved an 8ball that had to be shot off the template into the side pocket off angle by Darren Appleton... The ball centered the pocket....

The rule we had in place was that the template was to be removed at the first opportunity.... There was no opportunity because of another ball that was also on the template...

That being said I can see where it staying on the table could shark someone just a little bit and lower their confidence causing a miss even if the template itself didn't cause it directly...

Would be interesting to know what rules they use on the Eurotour and in Asia where the templates have been in use for a decade...

I know the All Japan the template is a permanent fixture on the cloth so players just have to deal with slow rollers and balls being slightly redirected on the rare occurrences that slow rollers go thru the rack area. I was surprised watching the event because there were multiple times that the template altered position when if it was not permanent it could have been removed...

I also have to make a comment on a template hanging over the rail and a ball touching it... Based on the weight of the ball vs the Accu-Rack unless the ball was rolling super slowly it would in no way change the direction of the ball. I cannot speak to the plastic racks as they would likely provide more of a resistance and I have not tested them as I have ours. Calling a foul over incidental touching where outcome was not affected to me is not in any spirit of any of the rules aside from making it a cut and dry call.....
 
All of them can affect a slow rolling ball, but it's never been a problem
except for really poor breaks where several balls stay in the racking area.
And you just don't see pros do a "miscue break" where the CB chips the edge of the 1 ball at 7 mph
and leaves most of the balls in place.

If they hit the rack at all, the balls will spread enough
that lifting a single ball solves any problem.

And nobody needs to be nitty about lifting that single ball, it's equally rare that the lifted ball
is in some super delicate zone where it must be replaced to the millimeter or it totally changes
how the rack plays. Make sure the ref has a ball marker if there's any doubt.

I do think it's ok to call a foul if someone allows a rack to hang over the rail and it gets struck.
Does it really change anything? Who knows.
Arguably, tapping the cue ball 1mm on a warmup stroke doesn't change anything either,
but we still expect players to be in control of themselves and not let anything hit the balls,
especially moving ones.
 
The template should absolutely stay one the table until the last ball drops!!












...but only for One Pocket.
 
Yep, as long as several balls won't be disturbed, just remove the ball in question and re-place it. Heck, you're allowed to mark and replace your ball on the putting green in a PGA tour event and they're playing for a considerable amount of coinage. I've never had a problem offering to get the rack off the table even if it means having to deal with a ball sitting on it.
 
trob said:
I'm getting some for my tournaments I run if you leave it on the table after the break I am going to consider it a foul if any ball makes contact with it. It's a foreign object on the table that can change the direction of he ball when slow rolling.
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I agree. Slow rolled balls will hang up and change direction. It needs to be removed.
 
DaveK said:
:lol: Your are right, not one but several !

And two seconds is a bit on the silly side. I've seen people take three, even four seconds to remove a magic rack :lol: ... when there is obvious room for their fingers ... even longer if they dick around trying not to disturb balls :lol:

Dave <-- agrees, and thinks whoever is not shooting should remain seated
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Several people agreed with him? Please show me, I missed them.
 
Don't know what the big deal is.. I do it as a courtesy to my opponent while they go switch out their break cue for their player, so they aren't even at the table when I'm doing it. If there's a ball on it, I'll just leave it alone and let him decide what he wants to do it.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't disagree, but I think there can be exceptions. Suppose four balls remain in the rack with what looks like a dead kiss shot on the nine to a far corner pocket. The kissing ball is on the template. How would you handle that? As the shooter, I would much rather the balls be left alone until I shoot the dead ball.
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Agreed.

KMRUNOUT
 
bwally said:
Anyone else out there run across this? Especially with players who aren't used to using a template rack.

I break, successfully, as I'm almost down on my shot my opponent runs over to the table to remove the template rack. I'm used to playing with it laying on the table and in years of playing with one have NEVER had one cost me a game. Most of the time I tell them to leave it on the table and they can remove it when it's THEIR turn at the table. IMO when it's not your turn at the table you should remain in your chair until it is your turn. Otherwise it really could be considered sharking. I don't believe these people are trying to shark they just are uncomfortable with the rack on the table. I actually had one guy say that I could use the rack to my advantage!! :rolleyes:

Rant over
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Simple solution. Remove it yourself to deny them the opportunity to jump up and do it which may bother you enough to mess up your shot.
 
I welcome someone removing the rack for me, provided I'm not down on a shot already. Normally I beat them to it and remove it myself, but certainly don't mind if they do. It annoys me to no end to see a template stay on the table after it's clear.
 
Here are the rules from the thread;
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=186405

These rules have changed from this old thread!

USE OF THE MAGIC BALL RACK

If you intend to use a Magic Ball Rack at any time during your match, you must notify your opponent before your match begins. If your opponent does not have a Magic Ball Rack and they desire to use your Magic Ball Rack, you must permit them to use your Magic Ball Rack at any time during the match.

If you do not notify your opponent of your intent to use a Magic Ball Rack before the match begins, it may not be used.

REMOVAL OF THE MAGIC BALL RACK

The Magic Ball Rack may only be removed by the shooter before any shot after the break. Rule 1.33, Disturbed Balls, applies to the act of removing the Magic Ball Rack, and fouls may occur when removing the Magic Ball Rack. Before removing the Magic Ball Rack, the shooter must allow their opponent the opportunity to summon a referee to observe the removal of the Magic Ball Rack. Balls may not be marked or moved in order to remove the Magic Ball Rack.
Click to expand...

The rules I received from CSI read a little different.

...Rule 1.33, Disturbed Balls, applies.... and fouls may occur....
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Was changed to;
....Rule 1.33, Disturbed Balls, DOESN"T apply..... and NO fouls may occur ......


I used to have a link to the rules from Bill Stock regarding the Magic Rack from the CSI website but I can no longer find it.

Would someone from CSI please post the official rules either here on this thread or on the CSI web site please.
 
DaveK said:
They posted after you but before me ... 12, 13, and 16.

Dave
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Gotcha, they weren't there yet. They do seem to be the minority though, would you agree? Seems the general consensus believes it should be removed.
 
easy-e said:
Gotcha, they weren't there yet. They do seem to be the minority though, would you agree? Seems the general consensus believes it should be removed.
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I never said it shouldn't be removed, the issue is by whom. It should be removed by the player in control of the table, not by an opponent who should rightly be planted in their chair, IMO.

Dave
 
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