Make A Valley Play Very Close To A Diamond

[Johnnyt]

While I’ll give you that no matter what you do to a Valley it won’t look as good as a Diamond, IMO you can make a Valley play very close to a Diamond.

Put on top of the line cloth, put on Ridgeback rails cut to make 4 ¼” pockets (or less). Tighten the two bolts on each of the four corners and level the slate in the bed and then the table using the adjustable leg casters. If you really want to go wild you can extend the shelf’s in the pockets about ¾” using metal inserts. Do this and you have a Valley that plays very close to a Diamond. Johnnyt

 

[frostedcue]

I would rather have a Diamond play more like a Valley. Honestly every Diamond bar box I get on feels like I am playing pinball or bumper pool. The cb bounces off tye diamond rails faster than it goes in. I personally can not stand it and would rather play on the floor. Sure, tighter pockets would be great but there is no consistency from one Diamond to the next. And owners shouldn't have to change the rails or the rail height or angle to make them play right either. Not for a table that costs $4G's!

But of course that is just my opinion.

 

[nobcitypool]

While I’ll give you that no matter what you do to a Valley it won’t look as good as a Diamond, IMO you can make a Valley play very close to a Diamond.

Put on top of the line cloth, put on Ridgeback rails cut to make 4 ¼” pockets (or less). Tighten the two bolts on each of the four corners and level the slate in the bed and then the table using the adjustable leg casters. If you really want to go wild you can extend the shelf’s in the pockets about ¾” using metal inserts. Do this and you have a Valley that plays very close to a Diamond. Johnnyt

If you do all that, why not just buy a Diamond to start with?

I understand why bars want valley tables. They want those bangers and casual players to finish their games as quickly as possible. It would take most of them nearly twice as long to play the same game on a Diamond.

 

[peteypooldude]

I would rather have a Diamond play more like a Valley. Honestly every Diamond bar box I get on feels like I am playing pinball or bumper pool. The cb bounces off tye diamond rails faster than it goes in. I personally can not stand it and would rather play on the floor. Sure, tighter pockets would be great but there is no consistency from one Diamond to the next. And owners shouldn't have to change the rails or the rail height or angle to make them play right either. Not for a table that costs $4G's!

But of course that is just my opinion.

When I 1st went from a valley to a Diamond I didn't like it either
After spending the last 3 years on them though, there's nothing else I'd ratter play on. All 10 Disminds where I play seem to play about the same

 

[dimeshooter]

Valley vs Diamond

If you do all that, why not just buy a Diamond to start with?

I understand why bars want valley tables. They want those bangers and casual players to finish their games as quickly as possible. It would take most of them nearly twice as long to play the same game on a Diamond.

The biggest reason I see is cost. You can find 7foot valleys in pretty good condition used for $500. Used diamonds are hard to find for less than $2000.

 

[Johnnyt]

If you do all that, why not just buy a Diamond to start with?

I understand why bars want valley tables. They want those bangers and casual players to finish their games as quickly as possible. It would take most of them nearly twice as long to play the same game on a Diamond.

Good condition used Valley $750
new topline cloth $200
Custom Ridgeback rails $200
Tighten 6 bolts DIY $000
Level slate and table DIY $000
********
$1150

Used Diamond $4000
Deliver & set up $400 (est.)
*********
$4400 w/o new cloth

 

[nobcitypool]

Good condition used Valley $750
new topline cloth $200
Custom Ridgeback rails $200
Tighten 6 bolts DIY $000
Level slate and table DIY $000
********
$1150

Used Diamond $4000
Deliver & set up $400 (est.)
*********
$4400 w/o new cloth

I suppose if you do all the work yourself, it could work out that way. I recently acquired a very nice 9' Diamond Pro that ended up costing me $2800 installed with new Simonis 860. That quite a bit less than $4,000. My time is worth quite a bit to me as well.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Honestly every Diamond bar box I get on feels like I am playing pinball or bumper pool. The cb bounces off tye diamond rails faster than it goes in.

I agree! I played on an 8-foot Diamond table in Las Vegas last week and it played exactly like that. It was the first time I ever played on a Diamond, so maybe it takes some getting used to, but my first impression wasn't a pleasurable one.

 

[Johnnyt]

I suppose if you do all the work yourself, it could work out that way. I recently acquired a very nice 9' Diamond Pro that ended up costing me $2800 installed with new Simonis 860. That quite a bit less than $4,000. My time is worth quite a bit to me as well.

That's a great price you got that 9' Diamond for. Finding one at that price is very, very rare though. Johnnyt

 

[Houstoer]

Good condition used Valley $750
new topline cloth $200
Custom Ridgeback rails $200
Tighten 6 bolts DIY $000
Level slate and table DIY $000
********
$1150

Used Diamond $4000
Deliver & set up $400 (est.)
*********
$4400 w/o new cloth

some pretty timely info for me. I'm looking at buying a valley in next week or two because i can't afford a diamond. I'll definetly do this to it. Thanks

 

[Johnnyt]

some pretty timely info for me. I'm looking at buying a valley in next week or two because i can't afford a diamond. I'll definetly do this to it. Thanks

Your welcome. I believe you will be very happy with it when its done. Good luck finding a good used Valley. Johnnyt

 

[cleary]

The shelf on a Valley is the big difference. I think unless you close the hole completely, a Valley barbox is gonna play pretty easy.

 

[Neil]

This is with extended rails and shelves. It will spit balls back out if not hit good.

 

[The Saw]

I would rather have a Diamond play more like a Valley. Honestly every Diamond bar box I get on feels like I am playing pinball or bumper pool. The cb bounces off tye diamond rails faster than it goes in. I personally can not stand it and would rather play on the floor. Sure, tighter pockets would be great but there is no consistency from one Diamond to the next. And owners shouldn't have to change the rails or the rail height or angle to make them play right either. Not for a table that costs $4G's!

But of course that is just my opinion.

The Diamond BB's with the red logo top have to be the ones you are speaking of..... They're junk exactly because of the conditions you stated. They have since remedied all of that with the new blue logo tops that have a different rail configuration. The blue logo tables play like a dream and the red logo tops are horrible, especially on a BB. The blue is so much better than the red its disgusting, epsecially when its humid.... When its humid, the red logo is maybe the worst playing BB ever! I'm a Diamond fan, always have been... But, as I told someone last weekend after playing on a humid red logo table, I wouldn't trade one clapped out 25 year old Gandy for a red logo box..... But I wouldn't trade a blue logo box for 10 clapped out Gandys.

Diamond finally got it right, its just a shame there are so many red logo tables out there misrepresenting the brand.....

 

[The Saw]

And a Valley with Ridgeback rails for sure plays better than a red logo Diamond....

 

[kanecalgary]

The shelf on a Valley is the big difference. I think unless you close the hole completely, a Valley barbox is gonna play pretty easy.

I agree, but the rails on a Valley also help suck in the balls. The Ridgebacks tighten the pockets, and don't allow a ball to slop in high on the rail. The Ridgebacks play perfect.

I put Ridgebacks and fast cloth on my Valley and it played lights out for a Valley. I finally found a good price on a Diamond locally and made the upgrade.

So, Ridgebacks, extended shelf, fast cloth and something to quiet those beasts down and you will have a great home table.

 

[genomachino]

Some words of wisdom here..........

As many of you know i travel all over the country teaching and playing pool.

I'm in allot a poolhalls where they have diamond and valleys.

Right now I'm at Brickyard in Indianapolis.

There are 2 - 7' diamond tables there and I think 4 or 5 valley bar tables also downstairs.

These 2 diamonds hardly ever stop getting played on. The valleys just get used when there is an over flow. The 2 diamonds are full.

Many players just sit around and wait to gamble on the Diamonds.

They also have 2 diamond 9 ' tables. the players wait for one of these to play on most of the time also.

Fortunately this place gets pretty busy on the weekends to fill up most of the tables but many poolhalls are not the lucky.

Plus, those diamonds are built like a tank. I think the diamond will still play well after 100 years provided you replace the rails every 50 years or so. That's how solid they are.

Many players are used to playing on valleys and think that is pool. It's just about the only thing we had so we put up with it and got used to it.

Just like many players using the laminated shaft now and would never go back to the maple ones, once you play allot on the diamond and get spoiled by the consistent play you won't like playing on the valley as much. Especially if there's a diamond right next to it for the same price on the table time.

The poolhalls that I see that have diamonds are flourishing. There are also some poolhalls I see with all valleys that are doing pretty good.

But when there are diamonds and valleys in the same place the valleys are the last tables to get played on.

The bright side to this is you won't have to refelt the valleys as often

 

[Johnnyt]

If the poolrooms that have Valley's would put Ridgebacks on them people that know how a table should play will play on them a lot more than they did with the factory rails on them. Johnnyt

 

[realkingcobra]

I would rather have a Diamond play more like a Valley. Honestly every Diamond bar box I get on feels like I am playing pinball or bumper pool. The cb bounces off tye diamond rails faster than it goes in. I personally can not stand it and would rather play on the floor. Sure, tighter pockets would be great but there is no consistency from one Diamond to the next. And owners shouldn't have to change the rails or the rail height or angle to make them play right either. Not for a table that costs $4G's!

But of course that is just my opinion.

Diamond has gone through learning curve to get where they're at today. Before I got involved with Diamond, they were producing tables for many years with the same rail dementions as they've always used but...I'm the one that showed Diamond how to make their tables play perfect, and that caused a big change to the Diamond factory...and the way their tables play today. There's no books, PDF files, drawings, or information out here to help table manufactures design the rails to play at their best...so in all honestly, Diamond did what every other table manufacture did, put the cushions of their choice on the rail design they were using, and set the nose height to 1 29/64"ths of an inch. They changed cushions several times, looking for cushions that played better than what they were already using in a constant ongoing effort to make their tables play better, but got NO help from the cushion manufactures when it came to solving the problem of their rails banking short and springy.

So, what was Diamond suppose to do to solve that problem?...because they did everything they could on their end to make their tables play better

So, if anyone wants to get mad at Diamond, they really should be mad at me instead...because I'm the person who showed Diamond what to do, and how to do it....in order to change the way their rails play which is what created the Blue Logo Diamond tables

And...for the record, the Brunswick GC5 don't play right either, and could use a rail design change just as Diamond has done.....and that's an $11,000 table....so I guess the price tag isn't what gets you that perfect playing table...is it?

Glen

 

[one stroke]

Diamond has gone through learning curve to get where they're at today. Before I got involved with Diamond, they were producing tables for many years with the same rail dementions as they've always used but...I'm the one that showed Diamond how to make their tables play perfect, and that caused a big change to the Diamond factory...and the way their tables play today. There's no books, PDF files, drawings, or information out here to help table manufactures design the rails to play at their best...so in all honestly, Diamond did what every other table manufacture did, put the cushions of their choice on the rail design they were using, and set the nose height to 1 29/64"ths of an inch. They changed cushions several times, looking for cushions that played better than what they were already using in a constant ongoing effort to make their tables play better, but got NO help from the cushion manufactures when it came to solving the problem of their rails banking short and springy.

So, what was Diamond suppose to do to solve that problem?...because they did everything they could on their end to make their tables play better

So, if anyone wants to get mad at Diamond, they really should be mad at me instead...because I'm the person who showed Diamond what to do, and how to do it....in order to change the way their rails play which is what created the Blue Logo Diamond tables

And...for the record, the Brunswick GC5 don't play right either, and could use a rail design change just as Diamond has done.....and that's an $11,000 table....so I guess the price tag isn't what gets you that perfect playing table...is it?

Glen

so with this being said maybe he is on to something :thumbup: