Makes me want to quit

[MVPCues]

This does suck. Sorry it happened to you. Impossible to know exactly what happened without facts. FWIW, in case the customer is simply guilty of a relatively poor packing job and a USPS employee somewhere is a thief:

I buy 10 foot lengths of PVC pipe and cut them in 33" lengths. Cues get wrapped in bubble wrap and taped, each shaft and butt individually. Cues go in pipe and ends taped up well. The pipe goes in the USPS priority triangle box. Box gets taped up well. I think most thieves are looking for an easy and quick steal, not one that will take a little time.

When I ship a cue, I implore the customer to put the pipe in the attic to save it and reuse it if he ever ships my cue back or ships any cue anywhere.

The PVC costs me about $4 a cue. If I ship 100 cues, that's $400. All I need is the pipe to save one cue (one way or another) out of that 100 to more than break even.

Keep in mind pool players come from all professions. A USPS employee/thief might know cuemaker names. A 3 foot long box. Hmmm...I don't even need to rattle this. Perhaps even putting a family member name as the addresser/addressee might attract less attention?

 

[raistlinsdragon]

Buyer stated it was noisy and had a broken ring. No mention if pictures were exchanged showing broken ring. Just because the buyer says it was noisy doesn't mean it was, and refund was promised upon receipt of cue and inspected, but the buyer jumped the gun and had paypal refund him....not cool. Cue was supposedly sent back, but empty box was received.....with no tape on the ends, how convenient. Now, how is that the Maker's fault? If it's a scam, like it sure sounds like, letting people know about the guy can help others avoid him. Seems like he already has a shady past by JC's post. Plus from my experience, sending a cue priority from Ma to Mo area is more than $10.
Dave

Dave it seems you have piled on the buyer.
1. Karma will get his ass.
2. Empty box was sent back with no tape. How convenient.
3. It sounds like a scam.
4. Letting people know to avoid him.
5. Seems he has a shady past by JC post.

Seems like all of this has been answered in follow up post. The box end was cut open, weight from post office looks right.
JC post crossed all civil lines. If you read the post on addiction, the kid has been clean for 5 years and is trying to help others. He found a arrest report but did he bother to see if the kid was convicted.
Mr. Webb saw the cue and said the joint was cracked. Who is gonna scam a 320 dollar cue with a broken joint?
Cue maker says if you don't like the cue send it back for a full refund. That to me says buyer shouldn't' be out shipping and insurance cost.

So, the bottom line is the kid had a great custom cue buying experience. He's out his time, his name has been dragged in the mud. He had to pay to ship it back. And still doesn't have a cue.
I hope this nice kid as Mr. Webb called him and his friends pass this thread around. So they can avoid the wonderful treatment he received from yall.

 

[JC]

Dave it seems you have piled on the buyer.
1. Karma will get his ass.
2. Empty box was sent back with no tape. How convenient.
3. It sounds like a scam.
4. Letting people know to avoid him.
5. Seems he has a shady past by JC post.

Seems like all of this has been answered in follow up post. The box end was cut open, weight from post office looks right.
JC post crossed all civil lines. If you read the post on addiction, the kid has been clean for 5 years and is trying to help others. He found a arrest report but did he bother to see if the kid was convicted.
Mr. Webb saw the cue and said the joint was cracked. Who is gonna scam a 320 dollar cue with a broken joint?
Cue maker says if you don't like the cue send it back for a full refund. That to me says buyer shouldn't' be out shipping and insurance cost.

So, the bottom line is the kid had a great custom cue buying experience. He's out his time, his name has been dragged in the mud. He had to pay to ship it back. And still doesn't have a cue.
I hope this nice kid as Mr. Webb called him and his friends pass this thread around. So they can avoid the wonderful treatment he received from yall.

I threw the red flags out there that a simple google search popped up. I didn't bother to try to dig any deeper but I would if I was personally considering dealing with him. Wish someone would have done that for me in one of Forney's threads before I got screwed.

Sorry if the word Junkie offended you guys. I don't hire felons at my business either.


JC

 

[scdiveteam]

You don't need to feel bad if you insure.

Postal insurance is very cheap.

 

[carguy]

What a shitshow.

Chuck is going to come up short on this no mater what.

Things like this have no good solution.

For the life of me, a don't see one single thing that Chuck did wrong, but he is booking a looser on this one.

The fellow who bought the cue had the right to receive a cue he liked.
In fact Chuck GUARANTEES that they like it and will refund if they don't.

When Chuck mails the cue to the buyer, he is totally responsible for it's safe arrival. He buys insurance to protect himself in case the buyer does not receive it or if it's damaged in the mail.

It strikes me as only fair that the reverse be true as well.
Chuck's guarantee is very broad. But it is the responsibility of the sender to insure the safe arrival of the package.

So it seems to me that the buyer of the cue perhaps jumped the gun a little in filing a claim with Paypal but I can see myself doing the same thing perhaps, under some circumstances. That's not the problem.

No, it boils down to the lack of insurance on the package.
I think the buyer of the cue got over this time. He should have insured that package. That was his responsibility.

Robin Snyder

 

[Chopdoc]

No, it boils down to the lack of insurance on the package.
I think the buyer of the cue got over this time. He should have insured that package. That was his responsibility.

Robin Snyder

As an observer, not a cuemaker, I think it does come down to this.

Legally the shipper is responsible I believe. That's why they pay for insurance...or at least should.

If they don't pay for insurance then they are taking the burden of the risk.

The shipper is also responsible for securely packing the item. Again that's why they pay for insurance...or at least should.

With such a small amount, and the circumstances, it isn't likely to get anywhere.

As a potential customer, I don't see anything wrong with Chuck's actions in posting here and what he had to say.

.

 

[Dave38]

Chuck guarantees his cues and promises a refund, but he has to get the cue back. Getting an empty box doesn't mean the same as getting the cue back, no matter why the box is empty. The buyer should be the one out of money/cue, not Chuck. Instead, buyer walks away with all his money back in his pocket and If an honest mistake, learned nothing from it.
Someone mentioned that $320 wasn't enough to scam someone...wrong. I have had people try to get me to do free tip replacements on shafts that I haven't even worked on in the first place. I had one guy bring me 3 different shafts in 2 weeks claiming it was the same shaft and the tip kept falling off. Problem was they all had different joint collars. I put a mark on the joint facing when he brought it back the first time, as it didn't look like the first one I did. The next 2 times, the mark was missing. Basically he was bringing me his buddy's shafts and expected to get it for free, then charge his buddy. He got the first one free, then it ended. He was always a nice guy on the league, but.....
Dave

 

[raistlinsdragon]

I threw the red flags out there that a simple google search popped up. I didn't bother to try to dig any deeper but I would if I was personally considering dealing with him. Wish someone would have done that for me in one of Forney's threads before I got screwed.

Sorry if the word Junkie offended you guys. I don't hire felons at my business either.


JC

JC the word Junkie didn't offend me. What I find offensive is misstating something and not bothering to correct it after you know your wrong. Now you have implied he's a felon, but I'm betting you don't have any prove of that either.
The kid said in the article he was a junkie from 11 to 16, and he has been clean for 5 years. He's now a counselor for youths with drug problems.
What in this article leads you to think you shouldn't sell a cue to him?

 

[JC]

JC the word Junkie didn't offend me. What I find offensive is misstating something and not bothering to correct it after you know your wrong. Now you have implied he's a felon, but I'm betting you don't have any prove of that either.
The kid said in the article he was a junkie from 11 to 16, and he has been clean for 5 years. He's now a counselor for youths with drug problems.
What in this article leads you to think you shouldn't sell a cue to him?

I didn't imply that he was a felon. That's your stretch. My comment was to indicate that I personally place a lot of weight on a person's history. Therefore I don't hire felons. I have no information as to whether he has been convicted of a felony or not. I suspect though to feed a drug habit he has committed more than one of them as a minor. Of course even if he was caught and convicted it would be sealed due to his age. That shit isn't cheap.

Would you feel better if I dug in and found out whether he was convicted of stealing four years after his "revival" or not? Who would owe the apology then? Would it make a difference?

Some of the biggest con men and scammers I have met in my life have been born again drug addicts turned lecturers. I always keep an eye on this type because experience has taught me not to trust them.

JC

 

[cueman]

Why would he do that? Protect others from what? The guy bought a brand new cue directly from the maker and it arrived broken & noisy. Nobody has yet bothered to ask exactly how that happened. As if paying for broken junk doesn't hurt bad enough, his refund comes at the cost of the builder mocking him on a public forum with pictures of his name on the label. Now the mob is forming to pile on him as if it's his fault the post office lost the cue. No doubt the maker will blame the broken cue on the post office, so how is it not fair that the buyer blame the lost cue on the post office? Double standards?

The guy got his refund and is done, IMO. He's probably happy to be out of the deal & may likely never buy a custom cue ever again because of the sour experience of not only receiving junk, but also being mocked in public as if he did something wrong. It's bad enough for both parties to be dealing with something like this. It is especially bad for the builder to blame the buyer, make a public scene of it, and allow the mob to pile on to the guy.

And custom makers complain the the market sucks, nobody buys cues May as well cut off your nose to spite your face.

I would think the reason the cuemaker does not blame the post office for the loss is because the customer packed the cue wrong with no tape.

 

[qbilder]

Eric, with ALL DUE RESPECT, you piled on the maker in this post as being at fault..., so....no backtracking...REREAD what you wrote, and would you like that said about you? From one make to another? Calling another maker's cue, and I quote....'JUNK" sight unseen and without any other info the same as we all had ....You went a bit over the line, IMO, Maybe the CA fumes are getting too much.
dave

If I sent you a cue & it shows up broken, it's junk. The builder doesn't matter. Junk is junk and a broken cue is junk. The point of my reply was to caution folks to not automatically assume somebody is doing something wrong or has bad intentions. As I said, none of it should have been public. Do you think I never have stuff like this to deal with? Or any maker for that matter? The difference is I don't slam the guy in public so everybody can pile on. I understand that sh!t happens & sometimes there's no good solution.

 

[qbilder]

I would think the reason the cuemaker does not blame the post office for the loss is because the customer packed the cue wrong with no tape.

How do you know that? Because of a picture? All you can do is speculate from the outside. That's all anybody can do. That's why the maker posted this crap up in the first place, to trump up some support from the internet mob.

Since we're speculating, here's my go at it. The guy doesn't have much money but wants a custom cue. In a world of expensive cues, he buys about the lowest price American made custom cue he can get. It shows up broken. He shows it to his local maker who probably urges him to inform the maker. We have no idea how that conversation went, but considering the guy hung up the phone & immediately requested a refund from paypal, I'm guessing not so well. Regardless, he's already out the money for the cue & the maker is requesting the cue to be returned. It's possible the guy doesn't have a lot of money to begin with and didn't want to spend a lot on shipping AGAIN. Could he have made a mistake? Yeah, he's a human. Does it mean he's a scammer & deserving of being dragged through the mud? You figure that one out, seeing as how you & the rest of the crowd here are righteous judges. Me, I'd eat the loss & nobody would ever hear a peep, regardless of my suspicions.

The moral of the story here is that you get what you pay for, both ways it seems. And as soon as there's an opportunity, the piranhas will frenzy a storm.

 

[desi2960]

qbuilder

I don't really understand the fact that you say , is showed up broken, you have no proof or no way to know that. I don't even know that, all I know is that it was not broken when it left here, and was broken when webb saw it.

on a side note are you the guy that said I could not build a wood pin cue a few years back? I could go back and look at those threads, reason I ask is there are a lot of guys using that name qbuilder quebuildr cuebldr, I just wanted to make sure

Could you explain to us just how you know the cue was junk and broken having never seen the it.

 

[Floyd_M]

Couple years ago, I sent a similar item thru the USPS, wasn't a cue stick.
I brought that box in to ship. Postmaster asked what was in it, I said and he said it needed a second layer of tape on the two ends. I said it was wrapped and taped inside. He said it didn't matter, they way this is, almost any end bump would pop the item out either end with only one layer of tape.

So I invested in 'rayon banding tape' then clear packing tape over that. NEVER had a problem... so far. AND the postmaster is fine with it.

KEEP US APPRISED OF YOUR SAGA.
.

 

[Michael Webb]

I don't really understand the fact that you say , is showed up broken, you have no proof or no way to know that. I don't even know that, all I know is that it was not broken when it left here, and was broken when webb saw it.

The guy was sending it back even before he saw the crack. Unfortunately, I showed the crack to him. I didn't push the issue. His mind was set. The P. O. On the other hand has a lot of crooks working for it. I've been thru it, Consumer affairs tries to help but they're limited. Even the delivery Supervisors could care less. If it's not insured, they consider it acceptable loss. The customer is at fault for not putting insurance and requesting a sig.and you got screwed. Paypal had no business giving a refund without you signing off on it. Common sense and courtesy doesn't exist in their business. They are one sided and could care less when it comes to issues like this.

 

[JC]

The guy was sending it back even before he saw the crack. Unfortunately, I showed the crack to him. I didn't push the issue. His mind was set. The P. O. On the other hand has a lot of crooks working for it. I've been thru it, Consumer affairs tries to help but they're limited. Even the delivery Supervisors could care less. If it's not insured, they consider it acceptable loss. The customer is at fault for not putting insurance and requesting a sig.and you got screwed. Paypal had no business giving a refund without you signing off on it. Common sense and courtesy doesn't exist in their business. They are one sided and could care less when it comes to issues like this.

Accepting credit cards in any business has similar protections to paypal. Consumer says froggie and the CC bank jumps and the vendor is screwed.

There are other ways to be paid than the most "convenient" methods out there. There is an auto repair business here in my town that doesn't take credit cards. Although I can't imagine how he can exist like this as 75% of my revenues come from cards he is in fact thriving. People want his services and bring him the payment form he asks for.


JC

 

[Michael Webb]

Accepting credit cards in any business has similar protections to paypal. Consumer says froggie and the CC bank jumps and the vendor is screwed.

There are other ways to be paid than the most "convenient" methods out there. There is an auto repair business here in my town that doesn't take credit cards. Although I can't imagine how he can exist like this as 75% of my revenues come from cards he is in fact thriving. People want his services and bring him the payment form he asks for.


JC

That auto guy is a smart man. Being local and supplying local has it's benefits.

 

[JC]

That auto guy is a smart man. Being local and supplying local has it's benefits.

I believe a reputable cue maker could easily follow this model.

My friend with the cash shop has a lower class of clientele than I do at my European shop. At least I tell myself that. Not sure I could get away with it. For sure I don't have the balls to try. Those credit card fees sting like a bee though.

JC

 

[Dave38]

A very good friend of mine owns a local nightspot and is one of the few in this area that doesn't take cards of any sort. He put in an ATM machine, and they go to that to take out cash. A Few complain, but he doesn't want the headache of stolen cards, lost cards, running tabs on a card, plus no fees.

 

[Chopdoc]

A very good friend of mine owns a local nightspot and is one of the few in this area that doesn't take cards of any sort. He put in an ATM machine, and they go to that to take out cash. A Few complain, but he doesn't want the headache of stolen cards, lost cards, running tabs on a card, plus no fees.

Taking cards in person involves a lot of risk. You have to sign an agreement with the company that I have never actually seen a small business actually fulfill. Lot's of data security that you have to guarantee.

In the end, if there is a big problem, they are going to see if you meet all those criteria. If you don't, it's all on you.

My business is run nearly 100% on Paypal. I have clients all over the US and all over the world. I take credit cards and debit cards via Paypal invoice.

I don't tell people "Here's my email...Paypal me."

My advice is to learn how to create Paypal invoices. They will then track everything for you and provide statements and even integrate with financial softwares.

I have experienced a very high level of service from Paypal and really feel they have helped build my business.

The fees? Considering the risk they take instead of me, as well as the high level of service I get from them, I think the fees are very reasonable.

I'll tell you that no other CC service company nor my bank has been able to offer me a deal that competes with what Paypal does for me.

I have a separate Paypal for personal stuff, like pool cues. That does not mix or overlap in any way with my business. What is interesting is that Paypal extends the same level of service to my personal account because of the size of the revenue stream I put through my business Paypal.


At times it can seem like they are biased to the buyers, especially when we see problems like this. But I can tell you that Paypal has helped me build my business and also settled disputes for me REALLY FAST. Why? As I said, the size of my revenue stream.

As the saying goes...size matters.:grin:
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