Man charged for trading ivory

I've always found it funny that people are sooo against ivory in a cue but have no problem with the fact that we kill trees to make them.








<~~just sayin....:cool:
 
I'd happily own and play with a cue that had legal ivory, I'm just not willing to pay for one.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Well, this is just plain silly. Really, you want violent criminals locked up?? Ok, so lets leave everyone else alone, the drug smugglers, the bank robbers, the insurance fraud dudes, Bernie Madoff, drunk drivers, burglars, peeping toms, speeders, Internet scam artists who pray on the elderly, tax evaders, etc.etc.

I' don't mind an argument, but it has to be logical. Just because somebody is arrested, it does not mean that a sociopath goes free....Geez..... This is not one or the other...it is both. You break the law, you pay the price. Cops don't take calls, and then sorry, if it is not a super violent crime, we can't get involved.....come on.. In the day I had to take calls for loose dog in the neighborhood, loud music, somebody parked illegally... I couldn't say tough toe nails, go to hell now could I???
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We disagree. In an environment where judges are ordering prisoners to be set free due to overcrowding I believe prosecutors should set priorties.

In this case I would issue the guy a fine instead of a prison term but then I wouldn't lock people up for a loose dog, loud music or illegal parking either. I also would suggest that illegal ivory pool cues does not rise to the level of drug smuggling, burglary, bank robbery, etc but you are entitled to your opinion.
 
MahnaMahna said:
I am pro-hunting, pro guns, and am glad you eat what you kill, as I would if I hunted (which I hopefully will one day).

Elephant poaching is wrong for many reasons.

But how is being an omnivore a good reason for hunting? Couldn't you buy the same, if not higher quality, meats from a store or butcher?
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Part of the problem in North America is we have lost the connection of where our food comes from.

Nobody thinks twice about snarfing down a big mac or some other multinational chains fast food offering.

Corporate farming/ranching creates problems as a whole because of intensity. In order to make raising beef profitable, companies have to put as many animals as possible into the smallest possible space.

They feed them food they weren't intended to eat in order for them to get fat enough to go to market in the least amount of time. Cows are herbavors, why would anybody think it's a good idea to feed them protiens from rendered animals(not cows anymore). This is how we got mad cow disease.

Animals are pumped full of antibiotics so they don't get sick because they're crammed so tightly together. This is one of the main reasons we are seeing more and more antibiotic resistant bacterias.

The pollution alone caused by feedlots is a major concern.

On the other hand, you have deer and other ungulates which have solid populations across the contenent. They are lean, have little fat and are a lot more suited to our diet.

Managed hunting is a usefull tool governments use to control wild animal populations. This results in less deaths on our highways because of wildlife accidents.

We have to manage wild animal populations because over the last few hundred years we've managed to take out the majority of preditors either due do ignorance, human wildlife conflict, and loss of habitat.

I submit that hunting for food is not only good, it's a way to get more in touch with nature and where our food comes from.

Hunting for sport on the other hand is not something I support, or respect.
 
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supergreenman said:
Part of the problem in North America is we have lost the connection of where our food comes from.

Nobody thinks twice about snarfing down a big mac or some other multinational chains fast food offering.

Corporate farming/ranching creates problems as a whole because of intensity. In order to make raising beef profitable, companies have to put as many animals as possible into the smallest possible space.

They feed them food they weren't intended to eat in order for them to get fat enough to go to market in the least amount of time. Cows are herbavors, why would anybody think it's a good idea to feed them protiens from rendered animals(not cows anymore). This is how we got mad cow disease.

Animals are pumped full of antibiotics so they don't get sick because they're crammed so tightly together. This is one of the main reasons we are seeing more and more antibiotic resistant bacterias.

The pollution alone caused by feedlots is a major concern.

On the other hand, you have deer and other ungulates which have solid populations across the contenent. They are lean, have little fat and are a lot more suited to our diet.

Managed hunting is a usefull tool governments use to control wild animal populations. This results in less deaths on our highways because of wildlife accidents.

We have to manage wild animal populations because over the last few hundred years we've managed to take out the majority of preditors either due do ignorance, human wildlife conflict, and loss of habitat.

I submit that hunting for food is not only good, it's a way to get more in touch with nature and where our food comes from.

Hunting for sport on the other hand is not something I support, or respect.
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I like sport fishing. Catch and let go keep the big ones, eat the flesh and stuff the rest.
 
a very informative article

For those of you who like me are not very educated on this subject, I suggest reading this article on the American Cuemaker's association's website. If you read the article you will understand why what Mr. Barringer did was illegal, and that he will most likely pay a few thousand dollar fine and not do any jail time, contrary to what the sensational news article intimated at. I'm sorry if a link to this article has already been posted as I skipped a ton of this thread, it was giving me a headache.

-Mike

P.S. I suggest reading this article in your underwear.

http://www.cuemakers.org/aboutivory.php
 
-Mike P.S. I suggest reading this article in your underwear. [url said:
http://www.cuemakers.org/aboutivory.php[/url][/SIZE]
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I see you also read the email:rolleyes:
 
mr hoppe said:
scott,
i certainly don't know all there is to know, but i do make cues and i'm a pretty fair player as well, and i'm willing to put my $ where my mouth is.

I will supply 5 cues, each with the joint covered. You hit with each, and get one guess to tell me which one has the ivory joint. We each put up $500 and winner takes home the cash and "i told you so" rights. I believe that you travel frequently scott, so if you are in the chicago area, this is challenge that is open to you should you choose to accept.

To all others, sorry for the tangent in the conversation.

Respectfully,
mr h
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crickets.....
 
supergreenman said:
For the record. I'm not a vegetarian, nor do I think I need to be a vegetarian to be "entitled" to stand up and say the ivory trade is wrong.

I do enjoy a nice juicy steak. Especially cooked on the BBQ covered in a cocoa/coffee beer rub. A couple of weeks ago I polished off 90+ chicken wings to do my part in raising $22,000 for a local charity. My team raised $800, the 2 of us ate 189 wings in a hour.

Chickens aren't covered by C.I.T.E.S, I don't have a problem eating them.
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Bump for the obvious...but apparently ignored....

WHY are not chickens endangered, beings that billions more of them are slaughtered than elepahnts are? Why are they not running out?

Same question for cattle.

In that answer lies THE solution to the (govt-caused) ivory "problem."

Jeff Livingston
 
supergreenman said:
Part of the problem in North America is we have lost the connection of where our food comes from.

Nobody thinks twice about snarfing down a big mac or some other multinational chains fast food offering.

Corporate farming/ranching creates problems as a whole because of intensity. In order to make raising beef profitable, companies have to put as many animals as possible into the smallest possible space.

They feed them food they weren't intended to eat in order for them to get fat enough to go to market in the least amount of time. Cows are herbavors, why would anybody think it's a good idea to feed them protiens from rendered animals(not cows anymore). This is how we got mad cow disease.

Animals are pumped full of antibiotics so they don't get sick because they're crammed so tightly together. This is one of the main reasons we are seeing more and more antibiotic resistant bacterias.

The pollution alone caused by feedlots is a major concern.

On the other hand, you have deer and other ungulates which have solid populations across the contenent. They are lean, have little fat and are a lot more suited to our diet.

Managed hunting is a usefull tool governments use to control wild animal populations. This results in less deaths on our highways because of wildlife accidents.

We have to manage wild animal populations because over the last few hundred years we've managed to take out the majority of preditors either due do ignorance, human wildlife conflict, and loss of habitat.

I submit that hunting for food is not only good, it's a way to get more in touch with nature and where our food comes from.

Hunting for sport on the other hand is not something I support, or respect.
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The estate and corporate tax laws created in the 1970s set this type of operation in motion and put many fmaily farms out of business.
fwiw.

Jeff Livingston
 
You guys amaze me. Why does everything have to be about $$$? I'm in Chicago RIGHT NOW (today only), and would be happy to accept the challenge, without the stigma of a $500 bet (which imo is silly). I may win, I may not...but I know TO ME, ivory joints feel and play differently than many other joints. If I lose then you'll have the pleasure of coming on here and saying "I told you so!". Cased closed.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ChicagoRJ said:
Mr Hoppe said:
Scott,
I certainly don't know all there is to know, but I do make cues and I'm a pretty fair player as well, and I'm willing to put my $ where my mouth is.

I will supply 5 cues, each with the joint covered. You hit with each, and get one guess to tell me which one has the ivory joint. We each put up $500 and winner takes home the cash and "I told you so" rights. I believe that you travel frequently Scott, so if you are in the Chicago area, this is challenge that is open to you should you choose to accept.

***********

I want a few hundred of this action and I'm in the Chicago area. Ivory is a cosmetic enhancement, like woman who wear jewelery....guys like it because it "sure is purty".... I think Scott is great, but he done gonna lose this here bet I do believe. SO, can I have half this bet ???
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Scott Lee said:
You guys amaze me. Why does everything have to be about $$$? I'm in Chicago RIGHT NOW (today only), and would be happy to accept the challenge, without the stigma of a $500 bet (which imo is silly). I may win, I may not...but I know TO ME, ivory joints feel and play differently than many other joints. If I lose then you'll have the pleasure of coming on here and saying "I told you so!". Cased closed.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 50. If you can guess it you can say "I told you so".

Meanwhile, I have a sudden urge to go outside and hug a tree. I'll be back.
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DogsPlayingPool said:
You don't think that ivory used as a joint or ferrule material contributes to the playing and feel characteristics of a cue? I think it most definitely does.
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You're right, you can feel the difference between an Ivory ferrule and a cheap plastic one, however, there isn't much difference between an Ivory ferrule and a alternative to Ivory such as an Aegis ferrule. A straight shaft, a solid butt and forearm with wrap or no wrap. The argument can be endless! If you can come across a well built cue that hits exactly as you want it to hit, then that is all you need. The rest is cosmetics! I have had cues with Ivory inlays. A perfect example is the 'Rony J' cue that I had purchased from a friend. It had one of the most beautiful designs I had ever seen. Points, veneers and Ivory inlays out the ying yang! However, this Philippine made custom cue had the WORST shafts I had ever played with. All the fancy workmanship did nothing for the playability of the cue. I finally had to replace the shafts before I could get a decent hit from the cue. Now I play with a custom made Scott Sherbine. He is out of Ephrata P.A. and can be found in the Blue Book Of Cues. Nothing fancy, no Ivory joint or inlays but it has the best feel and hit I could ever want from a cue.
 
ratcues said:
I've always found it funny that people are sooo against ivory in a cue but have no problem with the fact that we kill trees to make them.
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I have to agree with you. We'll eat cattle and chickens that are beefed up with steroids and antibiotics (and who knows what really happens to the rest of them when slaughtered) but yet "lets save the elephants". Like I said earlier I've never hit with Ivory and never really plan on having any in any of my cues but its not because I'm screaming of how the elephants are being put into extinction:rolleyes:

And as ratcues said where are the tree huggers? Why not have a beef there too while we're at it because our cues are wood! Not to mention the electricity needed to run the machines and the clear that is toxic that is sprayed over the cue as well. We could go on and on, but this story just sounds like a guy let a few cues get out of the states and will pay a fine. I have nothing against him or anyone that uses Ivory in their cues. But you cant whine about Ivory and ignore everything else that goes into a cue that destroys the ozone to cutting down trees.
 
BRivera said:
You're right, you can feel the difference between an Ivory ferrule and a cheap plastic one, however, there isn't much difference between an Ivory ferrule and a alternative to Ivory such as an Aegis ferrule. A straight shaft, a solid butt and forearm with wrap or no wrap. The argument can be endless! If you can come across a well built cue that hits exactly as you want it to hit, then that is all you need. The rest is cosmetics! I have had cues with Ivory inlays. A perfect example is the 'Rony J' cue that I had purchased from a friend. It had one of the most beautiful designs I had ever seen. Points, veneers and Ivory inlays out the ying yang! However, this Philippine made custom cue had the WORST shafts I had ever played with. All the fancy workmanship did nothing for the playability of the cue. I finally had to replace the shafts before I could get a decent hit from the cue. Now I play with a custom made Scott Sherbine. He is out of Ephrata P.A. and can be found in the Blue Book Of Cues. Nothing fancy, no Ivory joint or inlays but it has the best feel and hit I could ever want from a cue.
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Ivory joint plays much softer than an aegis joint IMO. It's not even close with the ones I've played with.
 
Hmmmm

ratcues said:
I've always found it funny that people are sooo against ivory in a cue but have no problem with the fact that we kill trees to make them.


I've always find it funny that people compare trees to an animal. Ummm, apples and oranges. Of course, you said it with a spin. "Against "ivory" and killing trees" Killing an elephant to supply the ivory, well, that is a no brainer. Not against ivory, just the illegal kind that involved poachers killing a majectic animal. Would anyones opinion be different if we were talking about a dogs hind leg used to make cues?? If for some reason the bone of all German Shepards, Colles and Irish Setters were somehow just as special as ivory,,,any problems with that all ??
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