Angel is a girl, atleast I thought!time_is_now said:
Not sure who you are talking about. 
Not sure who you are talking about.
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Timberly
Guest
That's the point... he only wants IPT players & a percentage of their winnings. IPT players are the only pool players guranteed cash money every event.JAM said:
I've heard folks use the expression "He could sell ice to an eskimo" when talking about how good a salesperson is.... well, the worst salesperson that couldn't sell a parka to a nekkid eskimo could make money on Angel....
This guy didn't want anything to do with her.... things that make you go hmmmm.
I agree Timberly and Phoebe, something does not sound right. I have had agents for my work and they never get a percentage for work I get on my own or clients I had before I signed with them. 30% is very high as well, though not unheard of, I give mine 25% but after my expenses are deducted.
It all sounds a bit shady and the only one guaranteed to profit on the deal is this guy. Good for Alex for keeping this guys hand out of his pocket. It sounds like they are trying to lure in players with the promise of monthly money....if something sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.
I also think the high pressure tactics are another big red flag.
hmmm is right!
It all sounds a bit shady and the only one guaranteed to profit on the deal is this guy. Good for Alex for keeping this guys hand out of his pocket. It sounds like they are trying to lure in players with the promise of monthly money....if something sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.
I also think the high pressure tactics are another big red flag.
hmmm is right!
Also, everyone has to keep in mind, just the fact that he is going after so many players (ie:quantity), rather than players that might be uniquely marketable is another big red flag. He might be able to find some deals for a few top players but how many? Where endorsement deals are still not an easy thing to find in our sport outside of the billiards industry?
I think he might be taking advantage of the excitment surrounding the tournament and with the players being treated like stars, it migh be easy to beleive that they are.
It is easy to forget that outside those doors most of the world is still oblivious too who they are.
I think he might be taking advantage of the excitment surrounding the tournament and with the players being treated like stars, it migh be easy to beleive that they are.
It is easy to forget that outside those doors most of the world is still oblivious too who they are.
Tang Hoa
I reviewed the original contract offered to Tang, who has not yet qualified for the IPT. I found certain clauses that to me were not in Tang's best interests. I recommended he not sign at that time.
After talking with Mark personally, changes were made to the contract and certain incentives added in the event Tang qualifies. After reviewing the new contract I told Tang it was entirely up to him, as the contract had been amended but still had some problems in my mind. On the one hand, all his expenses were being paid. On the other hand, if Tang were successful on the IPT (which I fully expect to happen), he would be giving up quite a bit on the back end. On a scale of 1 to 10, I gave the first contract a 2 (very bad) and the second contract a 5 or 6 (only fair).
I offered Tang the alternative of receiving private backing from myself and another individual, with expenses off the top and 50-50 split on the rest. All endorsements would be his 100%. This is a typical poolplayer/backer deal. In the end he decided to go with Mark and I wholly support his decision. Tang is practicing hard and wants badly to get on the tour. He is playing the best pool of his life right now. If and when he gets on the IPT, I would not be surprised to see him do quite well.
I reviewed the original contract offered to Tang, who has not yet qualified for the IPT. I found certain clauses that to me were not in Tang's best interests. I recommended he not sign at that time.
After talking with Mark personally, changes were made to the contract and certain incentives added in the event Tang qualifies. After reviewing the new contract I told Tang it was entirely up to him, as the contract had been amended but still had some problems in my mind. On the one hand, all his expenses were being paid. On the other hand, if Tang were successful on the IPT (which I fully expect to happen), he would be giving up quite a bit on the back end. On a scale of 1 to 10, I gave the first contract a 2 (very bad) and the second contract a 5 or 6 (only fair).
I offered Tang the alternative of receiving private backing from myself and another individual, with expenses off the top and 50-50 split on the rest. All endorsements would be his 100%. This is a typical poolplayer/backer deal. In the end he decided to go with Mark and I wholly support his decision. Tang is practicing hard and wants badly to get on the tour. He is playing the best pool of his life right now. If and when he gets on the IPT, I would not be surprised to see him do quite well.
I could be wrong here but didn't all the card holders sign a contract with Kevin at the first meeting??? I bet this could throw a wrench into things this guy Mark is doing...JAT...LOL
JAM said:
Yes, that is just what I meant. Since she is not an IPT member, he lost most of his enthusiasm to represent her. Something may still come out of it...he did see her potential. Right now, I think his main interest is in locking up as many players as he can. He has 20 now with 5 players still in the tournament. I hope the Filipinos go over their contracts very carefully.
Pool_Is_Kool
Registered
I admire and respect Alex and every single player that did not sign with Mark Trainer. He definitely has the edge over every player that signed with him.
He is guaranteed 30% - 40% of every player that signed but the player isn't guaranteed anything. That's absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't even have to shoot a ball and gets paid for the players hard work.
It's a shame because now that pool is about to hit big time, the players are still getting screwed.
I truly feel sorry for the players that signed. The ones that win are going to be sick knowing that they will have more than enough money to sponsor themselves and still have to give up such a big portion of it.
The Phantom
He is guaranteed 30% - 40% of every player that signed but the player isn't guaranteed anything. That's absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't even have to shoot a ball and gets paid for the players hard work.
It's a shame because now that pool is about to hit big time, the players are still getting screwed.
I truly feel sorry for the players that signed. The ones that win are going to be sick knowing that they will have more than enough money to sponsor themselves and still have to give up such a big portion of it.
The Phantom
I am surprised Mike Sigel signed with his Brioni suits and walking around with at least $10k in his pocket at all times (courtesy of KT and the KOH tourney). What will he gain?
And I am sad that Manalo and some other great players signed with him. Mark was sitting behind Manalo during the finals. I hope he is not getting 50% like he wanted from Austin Murphy and us.
After the 30% taxes, that leaves Manalo with precious little.
And I am sad that Manalo and some other great players signed with him. Mark was sitting behind Manalo during the finals. I hope he is not getting 50% like he wanted from Austin Murphy and us.
After the 30% taxes, that leaves Manalo with precious little.
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Timberly
Guest
According to Jennie & Phoebe, all the contracts are different. I would assume that the higher the percentage is for one to win, the lower the percentage is that he takes. For those of you that stand less of a chance of winning an event (Please take no offense, I'm just speaking realistically) he's going to have to take more of a percentage to gain as much. Had you signed, he would've gotten $1000 from you.... I'm sure he's getting a lower percentage from Marlon but yet he's also getting more money from Marlon due to the amount of winnings.rackmsuckr said:I am surprised Mike Sigel signed with his Brioni suits and walking around with at least $10k in his pocket at all times (courtesy of KT and the KOH tourney). What will he gain?
And I am sad that Manalo and some other great players signed with him. Mark was sitting behind Manalo during the finals. I hope he is not getting 50% like he wanted from Austin Murphy and us.
Did I read correctly? Mike S signed with him? If that's the case then it's pure advertisement...I'd bet the farm that he isn't getting a nickle of Mike's winnings... They're assuming that people will follow whatever Mike does and if Mike is with this guy, then everyone will be ok signing with him.
It's quite possible that Mike himself is getting a percentage of the percentage that Mark is getting from the players.... I can almost hear Mike S and Mark scheme about this in my mind... Things that make you go hmmmmm
Blantantly obvious
that this guy has his own interests first, and only provides the 'service' to players to line his own pockets, only to compromise when the 'buyer' is smart enough to call him on some things.
Sounds like the type of deal that salesmen think up when the car business is slow .... lol
that this guy has his own interests first, and only provides the 'service' to players to line his own pockets, only to compromise when the 'buyer' is smart enough to call him on some things.
Sounds like the type of deal that salesmen think up when the car business is slow .... lol
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Timberly
Guest
I recall hearing that the "monthly salary" had to be paid back...watchez said:
Timberly said:According to Jennie & Phoebe, all the contracts are different. I would assume that the higher the percentage is for one to win, the lower the percentage is that he takes. For those of you that stand less of a chance of winning an event (Please take no offense, I'm just speaking realistically) he's going to have to take more of a percentage to gain as much. Had you signed, he would've gotten $1000 from you.... I'm sure he's getting a lower percentage from Marlon but yet he's also getting more money from Marlon due to the amount of winnings.
Did I read correctly? Mike S signed with him? If that's the case then it's pure advertisement...I'd bet the farm that he isn't getting a nickle of Mike's winnings... They're assuming that people will follow whatever Mike does and if Mike is with this guy, then everyone will be ok signing with him.
No offense taken.
However, Mike Z and I were to be a package deal, thereby giving Mark 50% of what we make together - so he would have gotten $3500. He offered us $5K/month plus hotel/flights. Luckily, I am blessed with a nice job that allows us to pay all our expenses and already have a nice income, so while it was attractive to Mike, we would have to sit down and only figure this first year and only 5 months left to go, if it would be worthwhile. I think Mike has the potential to go farther in the tournament, so that is a variable to be careful of. The only way we would sign is A - he promises some big gigs for all of us at once and B. we come out ahead on the deal.
I know Austin's folks turned him down. They are also in a position to be able to travel and fund Austin's IPT expenses.
Mike S. and Mark conspiring...you DO think like a pool player, don't you, Tims?
I would never have thought that, but it does make sense. Why on earth Mike S. signed was a mystery. I thought he was set for life!To Watchez - I don't know if he can sue, or if he can if it would stick. I believe Mark has a 30 day out clause, while the player is stuck with 90 days or more to get out of their contract.
Also, according to sources that actually have a contract, alll the monies are automatically deposited with Mark's lawyer and then the funds are disbursed to the players, so that makes me really leery!
rackmsuckr said:No offense taken.
Luckily, I am blessed with a nice job that allows us to pay all our expenses and already have a nice income, so while it was attractive to Mike, we would have to sit down and only figure this first year and only 5 months left to go, if it would be worthwhile. I think Mike has the potential to go farther in the tournament, so that is a variable to be careful of. The only way we would sign is A - he promises some big gigs for all of us at once and B. we come out ahead on the deal.
I know Austin's folks turned him down. They are also in a position to be able to travel and fund Austin's IPT expenses.
Mike S. and Mark conspiring...you DO think like a pool player, don't you, Tims?
To Watchez - I don't know if he can sue, or if he can if it would stick. I believe Mark has a 30 day out clause, while the player is stuck with 90 days or more to get out of their contract.
Also, according to sources that actually have a contract, alll the monies are automatically deposited with Mark's lawyer and then the funds are disbursed to the players, so that makes me really leery!
At least you gave it some thought. I am a little confused on why people are upset that this Mark Trainer would do something that he would come out ahead on. Should he do it if he came out loser? Obviously he has to have something to gain by it. Him, being an agent for a pool player is a lot different if you were a baseball or football star. There is only one team, IPT, you can play for so there is no benefit in him negotiating that for you. But IF he can get a player any kind of endorsements on his own, that would be a big bonus. I don't really have an opinion if big endorsements will come the way of pool players just yet. For you personally, I can't say if you made the right decision of taking the guaranteed money or not. I have never seen Mike Z. play, only your opinion, and he did have a nice showing in the first tournament. How does Mike's game compare to 5 years ago? You might want to think how Mike might be playing 5 years from now and if he will still be able to compete at a high level. I am not being rude so please dont take this the wrong way, but he does not look like a spring chicken in his picture. The younger players will get better and there will be more of them too.
Yes, many attorneys make a lot of money just on the interest of the money they have in their escrow accounts. That is why they are always slow to disperse after a case is settled. Just think how much you can make if you show a balance of say $1,000,000 a month on your account.
My point about suing foreigners was that if a Filipino signed & now thought otherwise, what could Mark Trainer really sue them for. Also, a Filipino could always say that they didn't understand what they were signing and use the language barrier as a valid excuse to cancel the contract.
watchez said:
Well, the only guaranteed money is what is coming from the IPT. And if Mark wants half of that, then we aren't left with much. I see your point about 5 years from now, and Mike certainly isn't a spring chicken, but then nothing is sure 5 years from now anyway. But I do know he is capable of coming in the top 100 players, if not the top 20.
If I were a Filipino, I would sure be looking to get out of that arrangement!
Mark needs to be marketing his stable of players for other money-earning ventures and endorsements. Both of my kids modelled and their agent didn't want 50% of my checks from my job, but 15% of what jobs they got for my kids! They also took another 15% from the outfit that wanted my kids, like Chevy, Nordstrom, etc. That seems like a fairer deal.
As it is, Mark is only loaning you money upfront on your own money, PLUS taking another 30-50% of your guaranteed payouts for the rest of your stay in the IPT.
IF I don't need the money upfront, then what am I really getting? As I said, if he got us some exhibitions or endorsements as a group (realistic enough to know no one would want either of us by ourselves) then it might be ok.
rackmsuckr said:I am surprised Mike Sigel signed with his Brioni suits and walking around with at least $10k in his pocket at all times (courtesy of KT and the KOH tourney). What will he gain?
And I am sad that Manalo and some other great players signed with him. Mark was sitting behind Manalo during the finals. I hope he is not getting 50% like he wanted from Austin Murphy and us.
I wonder what's in Manalo's contract. I hope he doesn't shoot himself on the foot and make someone else richer like Tyson and other boxers making Don King even richer while he sweats blood just trying to win every tournament. However, if he got the bad-end of the deal, I can only blame him. He has a degree in Economics.
I wonder who other Filipinos he was able to sign. I know Efren won't because Puyat Sports is paying for most of his expenses. I hope that Mark dude would at least make sure that all the taxes are paid properly.
To all the players who don't know the intricacies of management and endorsement, ask someone before jumping in because you might end up like Manny Pacquiao who a year ago ended up owing the IRS more than he actually pocketted.
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Timberly
Guest
LOL, it's more a matter of survival in any situation, not just pool. From a very young age I've had to look out for myself more so than some others in the world. I learned to use common sense and to listen to your instincts.rackmsuckr said:Mike S. and Mark conspiring...you DO think like a pool player, don't you, Tims?
When you said that Mike S had signed my first thought was that it was a gimmick... like a Coke paying Nascar drivers to be in their commercials... I figured maybe Mike was more of an advertisement...Something maybe even set up with KT & Mark... LOL, as I was typing my response it hit me that he could very well be in on this whole thing with Mark. Whether he's in on it, or simply a walking billboard, I would bet the farm that Mike S doesn't have a player contract with this guy.... nothing remotely close to anything anyone else has been offered. I think Mike is making money on this.
Mark is the only "agent" roaming the halls, right? It's not at all that far fetched to think it could be an agreement that includes KT.
I'm not begrudging the guy making money at all and if this type of contract is suitable for someone (what works for one person doesn't always work for someone else) more power to them. Just from what little I've read here, I personally think the percentages are too steep and I would be a little leery of some of the other things... esp the checks being deposited to someone else... my instincts are usually dead on and they're screaming that this just isn't kosher, ya know?
This guys sounds like a rat in every way shape or form, it's unfortunate that Marlon signed signed with him. After winning $100,000 earlier this year you would think Marlon could afford his expenses? I could see alot of players being taken adavantage of and screwed over because of this thing.
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Timberly
Guest
You would hope so but we never really know each others financial situations. He could've owed money, lost money, sent money to family... With his potential earnings, I'm sure there's plenty of potential backers out there willing to help when he needs it. He's not going to always need expense money and if he went the route of a part time backer deal, he would've been better off...as far as I can tell. But again, we'll never know the whole story. I just hope that it works out for him and doesn't bite him in the rear.sniper said: