mark up on pool products

[whammo57]

If you own a business..... say auto repair and you buy replacement parts you commonly get a 40% discount from the supplier and you mark them up and include your hourly labor rate in order to gain enough profit.

Now let's talk about cue tips..... Lately, there have been new, never before heard of, tips hitting the market. They seem to be following the Kamui pricing strategy. That is, if you price it high, the perceived value will also be high.

Tips are commonly made of pig skin and a few others. Pig skin is not expensive. Tips are not extremely expensive to manufacture even with prepriatary methods and materials.

My point is that I feel that I am being taken advantage of when the price to me is $20 or more. I just don't see the the value.

Please don't think I am saying that the $20 tips are not good playable tips. I personally think the Kamui are about the best tips on the market. I just think they are very over priced.

I will not pay that high price even if I could pass that on to my customers.....

I will stick with a lesser priced tip that plays just as well.

Kim

 

[cuejo]

I'm not real sure what you are getting at on this one.
Material markup is the only way to make any money as far as I'm concerned.
If I can get my 40% I'll sell almost anything, I don't want to sit on products though, so if I have to hold a lot of stock, it's not worth it to me.
The thing that sucks for me, being in Canada
My markup on kamui after the exchange is not very high at all.
On the chalk is where I see it the most, I sell it for 30$ and my cost is almost 28$ so I don't make anything on it, but I do keep in stock because it sells well.
I have no problem passing costs on to the customer, after all I do the work with the intention o turning a profit

 

[whammo57]

I'm not real sure what you are getting at on this one.
Material markup is the only way to make any money as far as I'm concerned.
If I can get my 40% I'll sell almost anything, I don't want to sit on products though, so if I have to hold a lot of stock, it's not worth it to me.
The thing that sucks for me, being in Canada
My markup on kamui after the exchange is not very high at all.
On the chalk is where I see it the most, I sell it for 30$ and my cost is almost 28$ so I don't make anything on it, but I do keep in stock because it sells well.
I have no problem passing costs on to the customer, after all I do the work with the intention o turning a profit

I am just saying that the price for some products is too high ..... for me anyway....

I see repair people buying Kamui tips for $20 and asking and getting $55 to install one............ I can't in good conscience charge that much.


Maybe I am just a cheap skate......... LOL

Kim

 

[scdiveteam]

Kim,

I won't charge a customer 40.00 to put a tip on as a principal.

If they want me to put on a Kaumi they bring it to me and I put it on for 15.00.

That works good for me and my tip customers. No mark up and I get my labor price.

I don't stock Kaumi.

Rick

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

As far as tips go, they do seem to be somewhat price inelastic. Probably because even at $20 it isn't that expensive considering you may only need to buy one a couple times a year. So if a player finds a particular $20 tip gives him the most confidence/spin/control then he'll pay the price gladly over saving a few bucks on a tip he doesn't like as well or he perceives is only almost as good.

 

[cuejo]

I charge 20$ to install anything,
Actually I don't have a service under 20$
Profit shouldn't be a dirty word,
I charge 45.00 for kamui installed which only gives me 5$ of gravy on top of a le pro install, it is a premium product and price to the end user should reflect that.
I just wish we had a better margin on them.
I basically only stock,
Kamui
Ultra
Taom
Samsara
I think this is all anybody really needs, and the kamui and taom are both premium prices

 

[LGSM3]

Lmao, a real knight in shining armor you are! Paint smaller, more custom shops with exponentially more expense as crooks. Why? Because they haven't sold out to the same overseas mass producer of tips?

Now, let's look at margins.....shall we? What do you charge a customer for one of those tips you pay a $1.50 for?

 

[whammo57]

I charge 20$ to install anything,
Actually I don't have a service under 20$
Profit shouldn't be a dirty word,
I charge 45.00 for kamui installed which only gives me 5$ of gravy on top of a le pro install, it is a premium product and price to the end user should reflect that.
I just wish we had a better margin on them.
I basically only stock,
Kamui
Ultra
Taom
Samsara
I think this is all anybody really needs, and the kamui and taom are both premium prices

I am glad that you make a profit on the excellent work that you do ..... I am not bashing that at all.......... profit is not a dirty word.... if you don't make a profit, you can't stay in business................

just saying that I don't like the prices and I won't pay what I perceive as too high for a product..... even though it is an excellent product.

Kim

 

[whammo57]

Lmao, a real knight in shining armor you are! Paint smaller, more custom shops with exponentially more expense as crooks. Why? Because they haven't sold out to the same overseas mass producer of tips?

Now, let's look at margins.....shall we? What do you charge a customer for one of those tips you pay a $1.50 for?

I have painted no one as a crook........ you and I both know that $55 to put on any tip is too much........

Kim

 

[TomHay]

When I started I looked at the numbers. I also looked at the fact I worked some Tournaments putting on new tips back in the 1990's and at my shop.

For a Tournament you have gas, wear and tear on the vehicle and wear and tear on your equipment not to mention having to pay for a Hotel Room at times.

You needed to carry sufficient stock with you as well, you aint there as a hobby/

I did not see the lower cost by high performance single layer tips mentioned so I will stay on topic.

Lets say you figure for the weekend to install 50 tips at $20.00 per tip you will need $1,000.00. This is not counting overage as say there is 5 hardness in that line one hardness will sell more than another. Now install just throwing out numbers lets go with $40.00 per tip. You do the 50 tips you get $2,000.00. This means the Tip people were a 50/50 partner with no gamble as you paid up front. They are minus the PigSkin but you pay for the gas, hotel, your time etc etc.

Now lets say a brand name tip that had proven itself for years cost say $2.50 per tip. Well 50 times $2.50 is $125.00. Lets go with $25.00 as an install number. You get $1,250 or more than $1,000.00 minus gas hotel etc etc.

We are talking perfect world here. If you do an ooops on a $20.00 tip it costs you $20.00. If you do an ooops on a $2.50 tip it costs you $2.50.

Now on 50 tips lets say for 2 of your very good customers the feel they were looking for just wasn't there. You eat $80.00 or $5.00 making them happy.

All Tournaments don't have happy endings. Lets say it was a bust. You need to put food on the table for the wife and kids. Its a lot easier to do with a $125,00 cost than a $1,000.00 cost. Granted they will all be used sooner or later, but, the groceries are needed now.

Wellllllllllll, guess its time for me to be beat up.

If you own a business..... say auto repair and you buy replacement parts you commonly get a 40% discount from the supplier and you mark them up and include your hourly labor rate in order to gain enough profit.

Now let's talk about cue tips..... Lately, there have been new, never before heard of, tips hitting the market. They seem to be following the Kamui pricing strategy. That is, if you price it high, the perceived value will also be high.

Tips are commonly made of pig skin and a few others. Pig skin is not expensive. Tips are not extremely expensive to manufacture even with prepriatary methods and materials.

My point is that I feel that I am being taken advantage of when the price to me is $20 or more. I just don't see the the value.

Please don't think I am saying that the $20 tips are not good playable tips. I personally think the Kamui are about the best tips on the market. I just think they are very over priced.

I will not pay that high price even if I could pass that on to my customers.....

I will stick with a lesser priced tip that plays just as well.

Kim

 

[G's Cues]

New product

I don't have a problem buying the existing tips on the market for the price they are asking ie Kamui which I install for 35 and make a great margin on. The problem I have is the "new " tips hitting the market that you know nothing about and some are more in cost than Kamui. Why would I want to try or carry a "new " item when I know how consistent the Kamui tips are already . Just my 2 cents

 

[robsnotes4u]

The OP has an issue. He doesn't see the perceived value of the high end tips. If I was the manufacturer of those I wouldn't want him selling my product


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[whammo57]

The OP has an issue. He doesn't see the perceived value of the high end tips. If I was the manufacturer of those I wouldn't want him selling my product


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have sold 2 Kamui tips so far this year............. I don't stock them... If someone really wants one I will order one for them. I put them on for $35. They are a great tip.

That's the same profit I get on my other tips.

Are you saying I can't have an opinion about prices.....

Kim

 

[robsnotes4u]

You can have an opinion but why voice it publicly?

Nobody outside you needs to know your profits and costs. Let the customer decide if the price is too high with their wallets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mcues]

I don't have a problem buying the existing tips on the market for the price they are asking ie Kamui which I install for 35 and make a great margin on. The problem I have is the "new " tips hitting the market that you know nothing about and some are more in cost than Kamui. Why would I want to try or carry a "new " item when I know how consistent the Kamui tips are already . Just my 2 cents

They're just trying to follow Kamui pricing strategy and skip to the top. Probably somewhat successful too. Like others here I won't play the game out of principle. Unless the end recipients force me too

Mario

 

[cammel8]

Kim,

I won't charge a customer 40.00 to put a tip on as a principal.

If they want me to put on a Kaumi they bring it to me and I put it on for 15.00.

That works good for me and my tip customers. No mark up and I get my labor price.

I don't stock Kaumi.

Rick

if you are charging 15 of labor anyway why not just stock the tips and charge 35 a tip? 20 for tip and fifteen for install. Your still making your 15 and your helping your customers

 

[GBCues]

The OP has an issue. He doesn't see the perceived value of the high end tips. If I was the manufacturer of those I wouldn't want him selling my product

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We seem to have a different interpretation of the OP's point. You seem to be equating "high price" with "high end" only because it costs more, regardless of actual performance. In my mind, a "high end" tip is an expensive tip which also exhibits high performance.
A "high value" product, to me, is one that exhibits high performance at a lower price.
If my customer wants a high priced tip, I will get it for him/her, install it and charge my standard markup and installation costs. If they ask me what I recommend, they will get the "high value" product at a lower price, with the assurance that if they aren't happy with it, we will work together to find a product that they are happy with.
My 2 cents,
Gary

 

[pescadoman]

foolish

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I see no reason to publicly criticize anyone's business practices unless they are fraudulent.

 

[scdiveteam]

if you are charging 15 of labor anyway why not just stock the tips and charge 35 a tip? 20 for tip and fifteen for install. Your still making your 15 and your helping your customers

Cammel,

Your right but I just don't like paying that much for a tip and at 15.00 my customer gets a deal because most charge 40 or 45 for these tips in my area.

I charge 20.00 to install normal tips that cost less than a dollar.

So the customers get a value deal for what I consider overpriced tips when they buy them themselves.

I do a larger tip and ferrule business and am friends with all my customers. They save a few bucks because I do not mark anything up on Kamui installs.

I don't have a problem with a company selling their products for what ever they think the market will bear. I just won't pay that kind of money for a tip because it is my choice. I am not a Kamui buyer or end user and will never be.

When a shaft costs 150.00 to 200.00 I don't personally see the value in a 45 or 50 dollar tip job. Also the 29 dollar chalk is very sticky and stays on the tip a long time. They say you don't need to chalk as often like it is a bargain to use the chalk. The problem is that if you don't chalk up after every shot, then at some point you miscue. So do you have to remember to chalk up every third time or forth or fifth shot........... The fact is that even with the magic chalk people still chalk up after every shot as it is a habit built up over years of play. You can buy almost 2 gross of master chalk for the price of one cube. As PT Barnum said about a sucker being born every minute. People who spend 29.00 for chalk have more money then they do brains IMO.

Rick

 

[Dave38]

I can see Kim's point,...I am of the same belief. What do most of you repair guys say when the customer asks if these high end tips will improve their game enough to warrant the cost?? I know what I usually say, depending on the skill level of the player...... 'not really'. A high end, high priced tip will not make up for a poor stroke, or lack of practice, or the fact that they don't know how to draw, etc. Most are very thankful that I tell them that. I have had some insist that they want a ***** brand tip, and then were upset that they didn't like it after spending $$ for it. I'd rather get $15-$20 for a tip job and have a happy customer, than to have them go spend $35+ and have an upset customer that thinks I ripped them off.

IMO, The resellers/manufacturer's charge a large price for a tip that in all honesty doesn't cost much more to make than a Lepro, then they claim it's the best tip ever. I have MANY customers up here in the Northeast that want a good tip, but cannot afford the prices of these "high-end' tips. With the current prices we have to pay for these, we have to more than double it to make a profit and HOPE nothing happens where we have to change or replace it otherwise we lost the profit, and our labor. Most of my customers can only afford to replace a tip when it's absolutely needed. I don't know how the economy is around the rest of the country at this time, but I know a lot of people up here that make up my customer base are barely hanging on as it is, let alone paying $35+ for a simple tip on a cue. Most of them paid about that for the cue to begin with.... I do have customers that have $500+ cues and do pay $35+ without any problem, but those are few and far between, in my market.
Those are my thoughts,
Dave