Mastering inside english how long?
- Thread starter dgem
- Start date
100 to get started
I'm not a master but here is an idea on how long:
A hundred hours to get started mastering inside english. A thousand to have decent mastery. A lifetime isn't long enough to totally master it.
Hu
Two questions.
Masters, how long did it take you to master inside english?
Students, how much time do you spend practicing inside english?
I'm not a master but here is an idea on how long:
A hundred hours to get started mastering inside english. A thousand to have decent mastery. A lifetime isn't long enough to totally master it.
Hu
Master? Never. How long does it take to figure out how to use it and still make the shot at hand? About 37 seconds.Two questions.
Masters, how long did it take you to master inside english?
Students, how much time do you spend practicing inside english?
Fred <~~~ once I stopped thinking so backwards
Inside English is part of my daily drills. 40+ years and I still have to practice these shots... when it counts in a match;
I want to be able to feel, at the very least.. somewhat confident that I know what I am doing and maybe, I can make THE shot.
I want to be able to feel, at the very least.. somewhat confident that I know what I am doing and maybe, I can make THE shot.
What he said... If people had it mastered than no one would miss shots... At least not the pros
I'm with Fred here. I think Efren could master them, but he still needs some practice...
are you serious about 37 seconds?
Shot clock anyone? :grin-square:
Fred is slow, he needs his extension
are you serious about 37 seconds?
Shot clock anyone? :grin-square:
Extremely serious. I was one of those fools like so many fools making inside english more difficult than it really was because I was seduced and disillusioned by the stupidity of the term "throw." Then I realized in about 37 seconds from a discussion with Grady that with frim english, I really need to look at "cue ball deflection." Today, we call it squirt. In that one moment in 1989 or so, I had the "how could I be so stupid" moment, and have never looked back.
Fred <~~~ thinks the word "throw" should be thrown out of the f*cking books
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dave sutton
Banned
when i am struggling with a certin shot really bad i shoot it 100x a day until i get it. well i used too.
i dont think anyone masters pool. sometimes i see shots well and next month i might miss that shot multiple times. you game is aways changing
i dont think anyone masters pool. sometimes i see shots well and next month i might miss that shot multiple times. you game is aways changing
It's definitely trickier than outside to 'master' I think. It also seems like it needs more "feel". It feels like I always want 'full' outside on shots where I use it (nothing extreme, just hitting the CB halfway between center and edge). But inside I feel like I need many varied degrees from slight to max, and the speed matters much more.
One of the most important things I learned about it is that in situations where you'd use high+inside in an effort to get maximum effect... pure side can actually be more effective than high+inside. The high "weakens" the effect of the sidespin and you won't fly as sharply off the rail.
Also in situations where you're shooting softly to cut a ball into a near pocket, low+inside will give you a nice draw/drag effect and get a more effective spin than hitting softly with inside alone.
The last thing is the deflection issue already mentioned. With outside we're used to the throw effect putting in the ball, and somehow the nature of outside shots means you don't need to compensate for deflection as much. But with inside you often need to really move the cue ball in a way that isn't natural and you must account for deflection and throw a bit more. A low-deflection cue might make life easier on that end.
One of the most important things I learned about it is that in situations where you'd use high+inside in an effort to get maximum effect... pure side can actually be more effective than high+inside. The high "weakens" the effect of the sidespin and you won't fly as sharply off the rail.
Also in situations where you're shooting softly to cut a ball into a near pocket, low+inside will give you a nice draw/drag effect and get a more effective spin than hitting softly with inside alone.
The last thing is the deflection issue already mentioned. With outside we're used to the throw effect putting in the ball, and somehow the nature of outside shots means you don't need to compensate for deflection as much. But with inside you often need to really move the cue ball in a way that isn't natural and you must account for deflection and throw a bit more. A low-deflection cue might make life easier on that end.
Joe T
New member
Awesome post, especially the last line.
I know I'm the most stupidest guy here; but what's the issue with "throw?"
You mean...with spin? I know if two frozen balls are pointed nowhere near the pocket I can wack the first one and force the second one into the pocket. What would that be called if throw is a bad term? I'm just curious.
Thx,
Dave
You mean...with spin? I know if two frozen balls are pointed nowhere near the pocket I can wack the first one and force the second one into the pocket. What would that be called if throw is a bad term? I'm just curious.
Thx,
Dave
The problem is that there are two (or three) categories of throw: spin throw and cut throw (and frozen throw). They're all the same phenomenon (sliding surface friction), but are two different actions. In fact, I think frozen throw has a static friction component while the other two are all kinetic. And spin throw I believe can be higher relative velocity which puts its friction coefficient at another range (lower). So, the three, imo, are really three different things.
That all beside the point (or maybe it is the point), it's obvious in these discussions about inside english being voodoo without an LD shaft, or that inside english is harder in general IMO is because we all learned something about spin throw first, we completely misunderstood it (but still made outside english shots), then naturally made inside english tougher. If we all learned about cue ball squirt/deflection first, I think the majority of people would view inside and outside english as I do: about equal toughness/easiness.
Fred <~~~ would hate to go back thinking inside is tougher than outside
Hey, maybe it's just my lack of practicing it, Fred. I'd love to think the difficulty was the same between "helping" english and "screw-up-a-routine-shot" english!
No doubt you're right that hitting it firm takes away most of the trouble, but when you've got to hit it easy, well, that can still get tricky, can't it? Just a little? :smile: I mean, I know I almost never overcut that sort of shot, so I compensate a hair that way, but now and then I still see a simple shot brick right into the rail short of the pocket. Can't believe it, every time.
No doubt you're right that hitting it firm takes away most of the trouble, but when you've got to hit it easy, well, that can still get tricky, can't it? Just a little? :smile: I mean, I know I almost never overcut that sort of shot, so I compensate a hair that way, but now and then I still see a simple shot brick right into the rail short of the pocket. Can't believe it, every time.
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mongoose-
Banned
Inside spin pre-LD shaft....friggin voodoo on a good day!
Inside spin post-LD shaft.....simplicity!
for real, my Predator shaft has made spinning the ball with inside a joke.
G.
I agree 100%. The inside english shot in my opinion is one of the toughest in the game. I have used a predator for over 10 years now & they make that shot a lot easier than a standard shaft.
True, but you can say the same thing about "friction". I still don't see a reason to throw throw out the window, unless you can think up of adequate and convenient terms describing the three types of throw you just listed.
I think this is simply false. The reason...throw (or friction, if you don't like the prior term)! Unless you're playing with ideal balls with an absolute zero coefficient of friction between the ball surfaces, pocketing a ball with inside english should be fundamentally tougher (edit: in general).
I'd say they're three different ways of making the same thing happen to different degrees, and should continue to be called the same thing (with qualifying adjectives).
Then why is inside spin always considered the tougher one? Why don't half of all players think outside spin is tougher?
My guess is that we simply use inside spin much less than we use outside spin, so we just don't get as much practice with it.
There are physical differences too: CB/OB surfaces rub across each other faster with inside spin (which reduces throw) and because of swerve the angle of approach is straighter with inside spin (which increases throw) - but these tend to cancel each other out.
So I agree that inside and outside spin should be the same difficulty, but I understand why they aren't. We just need to practice inside spin more because we use it less.
pj
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