Maybe Gambling Is No Good 4 Pool

[ChopStick]

I can remember going to pool tournaments in NYC hotels in there huge ballrooms with my Dad in the 1950's and 60's. The players were dressed in suits and ties and the had good sportsmanship in front of the public. Most poolrooms back then were dark and dirty with all kinds of hustlers and overall shady characters. What happened in the following years were those shady characters in the poolrooms replaced the well groomed sportsmen. Johnnyt

I believe you are correct. Now days nobody is interested in playing for money. They just want a lock and to rob someone. In pool I never saw it as gambling. Flipping a coin or rolling dice is gambling. Posting a prize and engaging in competition for it is the same as tournament play. What is the difference if two guys do it with each other or 32 do it?

Years ago, I used to give action to everyone. I didn't care how they played. I considered doing it again but I look around the room and I don't really want to know those people much less share time with them.

 

[Kim Bye]

I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt

Glad to see more folks understand that the gambling, the smoke filled dives and the macho attitude in those places is what prevents pool from being big.
Pool tables should be found in safe inviroments where the game is the focus and friendly rivalry is the key. No alcohol and no alpha male douchebags, so young kids can learn to play pool and enjoy the sport in a safe location.
Look at the American players, almost all of them are approaching er exceeding the 50 year mark,SVB and Dechaine are exeptions to the rule.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Me neither...and I never gamble at pool.

Pool imo, is viewed in a somewhat negative light here in the US. I believe the reason for this is multi-faceted. Shady people....alcohol....drugs....cigarette smoke....gambling....fighting....all of these things as a whole have led to these negative views.

Gambling is done on every major sport in America....many minor sports too.

The difference is that in other major sports the players are not allowed to gamble on themselves or their teams.

I (and about 80% of the population) have not a single gambling bone in my body.

 

[fasted71465]

I see nothing wrong playing for a little of something. It makes me try harder. Pool is not in the gutter as everyone says. It is the pro players that have it bad because of no big tourneys anymore. I used to want to play pool for a living until I became friends with a couple of people that have tried and could beat anyone in the world in their prime. Now they are completely broke and have nothing. Pool should be looked at as a hobby. maybe one day Pro pool will come back but I highly doubt it. Gambling has nothing to do with the downfall of a pro pool. Pool has went into a different direction with the leagues. I will always admire how well pro players can play but my admiration stops there.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Gambling on sports is a multi billion dollar industry in the US

I agree and have heard Jeanette say that in an interview with Inside Pool. Johnnyt

Jeanette is a great money player and matches up with men for substantial "purses".

Gambling is the backbone of pool's history. There's even more money gambled on golf, and in the "big leagues," it's the driving force of the TV Ratings in college football, basketball, and especially professional sporting events/games.

Gambling on sports is a multi billion dollar industry in the US, and also a big influence in snooker's popularity in England.

 

[NYC cue dude]

I like both. I hate the idea that the only way to determine who is better is by gambling. It's laughable. Longer races, sure. But not gambling.

Daz didn't lose to Shane because Shane is a better gambler. He lost because Shane is a better player. Plain and simple.

Shane was only better than Daz, on that day. A different day will yield a different result. Because you bothered to say that Shane is a better player, rather than just a more experienced gambler, how can you explain Shane's lack of world 9 ball titles? Daz and Shane played in those tournaments. Why is daz a world champ and Shane isn't? Is Daz the better PLAYER? I think he is.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Gambling today is different than it was in the past. The Internet has destroyed just about all of the road player's action. The local hustler does more to the harm of the image of pool than can be calculated. 2 A players matching up for $20 is pretty harmless as long as the normal degenerate behavior isn't on display. 2 pros engaged in high level gambling is what has held back pro from advancing with sponsorship, IMO. Their integrity and those that surround them, is always in question. Shane is the exception, not the rule.

Most Europeans don't gamble because they'd like to attract outside sponsorship. I know this as a fact. The ones I know, dread going to the DCC because of the scumbag element that infests the area during the event.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Shane was only better than Daz, on that day. A different day will yield a different result. Because you bothered to say that Shane is a better player, rather than just a more experienced gambler, how can you explain Shane's lack of world 9 ball titles? Daz and Shane played in those tournaments. Why is daz a world champ and Shane isn't? Is Daz the better PLAYER? I think he is.

First, let me just say that Daz is easily one of my favorite players. In fact, I actually like him more than Shane. With that being said...

It's been pointed out many times that Daz is a sprinter. He's an underdog to Shane in any race longer than 15, and this has absolutely nothing to do with betting.

I don't know if you gamble (I don't), but I believe they're playing an all-around on TAR next month, and if you do gamble, I'm sure you can lay all the money you want on Daz.

 

[bobalouiecda]

Gambling 40-50 years ago.

To gamble well takes much more than a good game. It becomes a game not unlike chess.
The best players were unapproachable to most pool players when I was young and gambling was the norm. To get a shot you may need to invest a few bucks to get a game.
Eventually you may be one of the top dogs and they all want to take you down. I doubt Jay Helfert would remember my name from the mid 60s to early 70s. I guarantee he would remember the experience. I was very confident and maybe a little cocky, but was very aware of the incredible skill of a small percentage of the gamblers.

 

[JumpinJoe]

Who gives a chit about the pros. If they need to make more money GET A JOB.
Professional pool is a job for about 10 players in the world, that's it. It will never change.

Enough of this is wrong, this is why. What's wrong is its a game lazy people want to try and make a living at. Get over it, it's not going to happen, GET A JOB, play tourneys for extra cash when work permits. You will be healthier and happier.

And gambling will always be part of pool. It started that way, it will end that way.

 

[NYC cue dude]

First, let me just say that Daz is easily one of my favorite players. In fact, I actually like him more than Shane. With that being said...

It's been pointed out many times that Daz is a sprinter. He's an underdog to Shane in any race longer than 15, and this has absolutely nothing to do with betting.

I don't know if you gamble (I don't), but I believe they're playing an all-around on TAR next month, and if you do gamble, I'm sure you can lay all the money you want on Daz.

That's my point. To make a living today, you must be a sprinter. ALL TOURNAMENTS ARE FORMATTED THIS WAY. So, in essence, that's the rule. And although I really enjoy the TAR matches, they are the exception. Being the best in a format that is hardly ever used outside of TAR, hasn't translated to the most coveted titles pool has to offer.

 

[JB Cases]

I stuck with competition in short track speed skating from the early fifties till my later HS years, a good ten year run. There are many sports where money is not ones goal. What's sad is when I see a parent who has a hot shot kid that can draw his ball, and that child starts acting like adult gamblers, that sickens me and reminds me of the collateral damage the gambling side of pool can cause, as with any endeavor in life. Wall street is no different.

This.

Gambling is fun until its not. Letting children gamble in adult settings and encouraging them to only sets them up for a harder life in most cases in my opinion.

I don't think gambling is destructive to pool. I think it is destructive to some pool players and the mindset they take into the pro side then hurts the sport.

Other players handle both sides just fine.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the gambling aspect. 'The Hustler' AND 'The Color of Money' proved that.

To gamble well takes much more than a good game. It becomes a game not unlike chess.
The best players were unapproachable to most pool players when I was young and gambling was the norm. To get a shot you may need to invest a few bucks to get a game.
Eventually you may be one of the top dogs and they all want to take you down. I doubt Jay Helfert would remember my name from the mid 60s to early 70s. I guarantee he would remember the experience. I was very confident and maybe a little cocky, but was very aware of the incredible skill of a small percentage of the gamblers.

Yes, pool would never have been any bigger than "board games" without the gambling aspect. 'The Hustler' AND 'The Color of Money' proved that.

Pool's a great gambling game, and it's fun recreationally......take your pick, there's plenty of reasons to choose either side.

 

[Zkid09]

I'll give my opinion as far as tables should be in better places than dark Smokey rooms..
I'm 21. Have never touched drugs, tobacco etc and have only tried one sip of a beer in my life. I tried for years to find somewhere to play because I enjoyed it. I was 16 and my only option was a bowling alley and a small place at a mall that charged ridiculous prices to play. I got out of it for a long time because of this.
I have one place close to play that isn't drenched in alcohol. Even there, you get a usual person that'll try playing you that has had one too many but it's not bad. There is never anyone playing pool much unless it's Saturday. Finding a money game isn't a possibility.

Now I'm 21 and finding a table isn't an issue. However, I walked into a small place by my house to shoot a small tournament I heard about Thursday night. I walked in and it was a smoke cloud. They had one table with 3 or 4 guys standing around playing and watching. I stood there watching for a second then walked up to an older guy taking names for the tournament. I got signed up and he was super nice. I walked up to the bar and Asked for a Mt dew and the lady looked at me like I was stupid. Gave me my drink and was rude as hell. When I asked for change to play. Went back to a little table by the pool table and sat down. Tried making some conversation with a fellow sitting next to me by asking what kind of cue he was playing with. It looked like a custom but was a gorgeous stick. He looked at me and didn't say anything... Well alright. I minded my own business for the next 45 minutes. Had a DRUNK old lady walk up trying to buy me a drink . That was funny, but a fail.
Finally got to play my games and lost. My own fault but I only had one guy shake my hand and tell me Goodluck or good game.

Now, for someone that's 21, doesn't drink or smoke, never been in a bar, it was quite an experience. Definitely nowhere I would suggest a young person to go, and definitely not by their self. I don't guess it was dangerous, but the atmosphere and everything was dirty and rude. Almost nobody was a good sport and I felt on edge with what I did or said.
I'm sure this isn't the case with a lot of places, but small bars definitely wouldn't be somewhere I would want someone, even my age, going alone.

Now, as far as the gambling goes, I feel like a previous poster does, playing pool for money isn't much different than playing in a tournament. I guess it is gambling, but I don't see pool the same as playing a slot machine or cards.
I fish tournaments competitively and I guess that could be considered gambling but to me, it's a competition.

Personally, I don't believe gambling is bad for the sport. I'd love seeing it like the older days when you seen everyone clean cut playing and being a great spectator sport.

And with all of this, I think that more pool rooms without alcohol or just places for younger people to play would help the sport Alot

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[irock]

Zkid09, I like your attitude, hang in there, not all places are like the one you went to.

 

[Kim Bye]

To gamble well takes much more than a good game. It becomes a game not unlike chess.
The best players were unapproachable to most pool players when I was young and gambling was the norm. To get a shot you may need to invest a few bucks to get a game.
Eventually you may be one of the top dogs and they all want to take you down. I doubt Jay Helfert would remember my name from the mid 60s to early 70s. I guarantee he would remember the experience. I was very confident and maybe a little cocky, but was very aware of the incredible skill of a small percentage of the gamblers.

This post is a pretty good summary of what`s wrong with pool...

 

[bobalouiecda]

No gambling in billiards would be the equivalent

to touch football in the NFL. This may be the case some day. No one forced me to gamble, but to get a game on the bar table most required to play for a beer or a buck. It was a sucker bet for most to take on the winner, giving up the break, and all too often a chance to get a shot. Then wait another long while with the table lined up with players hoping to beat the winner. That was more incentive to win than a few bucks. I have no problem with gambling to this day. I do not see how it can be a detriment to the billiards community. Like any sport, drinking is the cause of most of the negativity. Should we outlaw pool tables in bars? How about no beer in the sports stadiums. How about tournaments with no prize money. This way no one is a loser. While we are at it how about outlawing playing for table time and no prize money in League play. Do all this and we will still all be seen as a seamy bunch from the other side of the tracks to many. This is not the problem with pool imho.

 

[NYC cue dude]

to touch football in the NFL. This may be the case some day. No one forced me to gamble, but to get a game on the bar table most required to play for a beer or a buck. It was a sucker bet for most to take on the winner, giving up the break, and all too often a chance to get a shot. Then wait another long while with the table lined up with players hoping to beat the winner. That was more incentive to win than a few bucks. I have no problem with gambling to this day. I do not see how it can be a detriment to the billiards community. Like any sport, drinking is the cause of most of the negativity. Should we outlaw pool tables in bars? How about no beer in the sports stadiums. How about tournaments with no prize money. This way no one is a loser. While we are at it how about outlawing playing for table time and no prize money in League play. Do all this and we will still all be seen as a seamy bunch from the other side of the tracks to many. This is not the problem with pool imho.

I can imagine certain instances where gambling could be a detriment. Now, its unlikely to happen, but what if something like this were to happen:

Once upon a time, there was a pro tournament that had finally secured a coveted beer sponsorship with the promise with more future partnerships. This was a high profile event with high pro turnout. During the second day of the event, the sponsors show up, unannounced. What if they saw the tournament director, (who is tasked with officiating and running the event fairly), taking bets on the matches, with the participating players.

Bob, if a situation like that was to occur, would you then agree that gambling within the game can lead to questions about the integrity of the outcome of the matches? And if you were considering investing in pool as an outside sponsor, would you blame them for not doing so?

 

[Prey]

One of the reasons pool is in the mess it is now, in this country, because noone has any gamble in them. When people gambled they tried to improve there game. Leagues not so much. Tournaments or lack there of is falling by the way side.

 

[JB Cases]

TD's booking action on matches they preside over is horrible. Yeah they might never do anything shady with that power but they should stay out of it completely.

The sport of pool should be kept separate from the game of pool. The game is played in the pool room with all the gambling and hustling and barking and FUN that goes along with it. Sometimes it get serious and sometimes heated but for most people it's fun recreation to gamble and test yourself. Only a few players are really in it to make a living and some manage to while others just break even if they are lucky with their scores.

Others end up in debt to people they don't want to be in debt to and end up doing things that have nothing to do with pool and everything to do with possible prison. This is also how it works outside of pool when people are just into the gambling and not really into the game.

The sport should stay clean at events and tournaments where there is no organized gambling, except calcuttas IMO. No bookies booking bets on matches.

If people or players want to gamble then let them do that as people do but keep the bookies out of it. And if it's a pro event then make sure the gambling between players is not on the main floor.

DCC to me - as it was in the Old Executive West was the PERFECT image of how it should be. A pool event that CELEBRATED both sides and showcased each perfectly. No tournament held in a casino ball room will ever match the DCC events held in the Exectutive West. I wish I was a billionaire, I'd buy that place and make it the permanent home of the DCC.