Maybe Gambling Is No Good 4 Pool

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
 
There is some truth in this, but I'm not buying it in full.

In fact, in her HOF induction speech, Jeanette Lee noted that gambling had figured significantly in the development of her game and, to use her words, "in ways that tournaments never could."

I think what she meant is that gambling, though not necessary in every case (you need look no further than reigning World 9-ball Champion Thorsten Hohmann for proof) can be a good route for building your competitive pedigree, thereby preparing you for competition against the very best.
 
Youre right and wrong if that makes sense

Johnnyt,
I think youre right and wrong if that makes sense. I learned to play gambling. It was for dollars the gamblers were kids. The excitement around the game itself and it was addictive and intoxicating. What was there was quarters around a table. People who won got to keep the table and get all the money/action that wanted to step up and try to be the King of the Hill on the table.

There is action then there is Action.

Pool is full of action for business owners but its not full of action for people who want to make a living at it. That's just a fact. If someone finds enough pool money it makes their regular life easier if they don't try and take too much at a time. I cant imagine that I would have ever tried being a pro because I want a wife, a family and I need work for it. Pool just cant promise that, so somewhere someone made a choice and we aren't responsible for their choice.

After all of the hype, pool is a game and you learn to play it well and it takes a lot of time. Time that might have been better spent going to school and learning a profession.

I cut grass on the side and for the work I do its very well paying. I played pool on the side as a kid and it was very well paying. I didn't have to cut grass and I had plenty of money for beer, cigarettes all the essentials of life and I was 13. Yeah 13. So ill gotten money tends to find ill ways to spend it. I don't smoke anymore and its not fashionable these days. I think Pool is a great avocation but not a good vocation and its something for companies to have players they sponsor but its not for the independent contractor.
 
and whats wrong with a job?

I don't understand why Pool players don't work, I don't mean a full time I cant play pool job, but a part time I have some money to make it with job.

I Walmart now I have insurance and some cash job so that I can pick and choose my action job. A job that does not require all or any of your brain power as not to distract from pool job...,
 
336Robin said:
Johnnyt,
I think youre right and wrong if that makes sense. I learned to play gambling. It was for dollars the gamblers were kids. The excitement around the game itself and it was addictive and intoxicating. What was there was quarters around a table. People who won got to keep the table and get all the money/action that wanted to step up and try to be the King of the Hill on the table.

There is action then there is Action.

Pool is full of action for business owners but its not full of action for people who want to make a living at it. That's just a fact. If someone finds enough pool money it makes their regular life easier if they don't try and take too much at a time. I cant imagine that I would have ever tried being a pro because I want a wife, a family and I need work for it. Pool just cant promise that, so somewhere someone made a choice and we aren't responsible for their choice.

After all of the hype, pool is a game and you learn to play it well and it takes a lot of time. Time that might have been better spent going to school and learning a profession.

I cut grass on the side and for the work I do its very well paying. I played pool on the side as a kid and it was very well paying. I didn't have to cut grass and I had plenty of money for beer, cigarettes all the essentials of life and I was 13. Yeah 13. So ill gotten money tends to find ill ways to spend it. I don't smoke anymore and its not fashionable these days. I think Pool is a great avocation but not a good vocation and its something for companies to have players they sponsor but its not for the independent contractor.
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I always gambled on pool. I also had 2 paper routes, lawn cutting biz, and shoveled snow, raked leaves and such at 13-14. I always had plenty of money to buy things like a mint candy apple red ford convert cash and a 1951 Indian Chief at 16. I played pool for 60 years and figured out early not to make a full time job of it. Johnnyt
 
sjm said:
There is some truth in this, but I'm not buying it in full.

In fact, in her HOF induction speech, Jeanette Lee noted that gambling had figured significantly in the development of her game and, to use her words, "in ways that tournaments never could."

I think what she meant is that gambling, though not necessary in every case (you need look no further than reigning World 9-ball Champion Thorsten Hohmann for proof) can be a good route for building your competitive pedigree, thereby preparing you for competition against the very best.
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I agree and have heard Jeanette say that in an interview with Inside Pool. Johnnyt
 
Opinion Alert!!! I could be wrong on this next observation but here it goes anyway...

Here's another thing that gambling does to players:

It feeds this false belief that pool is really a one-on-one sport. Gamblers approach a tournament matchup too invested in who they are playing. They think to themselves "I can beat this guy." Then if they lose they get frustrated because they believe they are really the better player. If only they could get this guy to matchup with them, they could prove it.

When gamblers view their career progression, it's viewed as rungs on a ladder. The rungs are the players they have beaten, who they have gotten the cash from.

From what I have gathered, the tournament professional doesn't invest nearly as much time concerning themselves with who they are playing, or who they have beaten. It's more about the game. Pool isn't viewed as a one-on-one sport to them. This doesn't mean that they are not just as fiercely competitive as the gambler, it's just they are more concerned with the game than they are their opponent.

The game is the challenge. It never changes.
 
".......In fact, in her HOF induction speech, Jeanette Lee noted that gambling had figured significantly in the development of her game and, to use her words, "in ways that tournaments never could........"


Around 20 years ago I read an article in Billiards Digest in which another Hall of Famer - Ewa Mattaya Laurence- said that in order to improve the skills in the pool game one does not need to engage in gambling in pool


I think that Gamblers caused damage to the pool tables in many pool halls by hitting with a cue ball on the heads of the balls especially the # 1 yellow ball to keep the 9 ball rack very tight. Because of the dents put on the cloth by the gamblers it is difficult to rack the balls by the others .

Golfers engage in gambling all the time but they don`t get bad name like gamblers in th pool game . There may be several reasons for pool gamblers getting bad name and one thing that come to my mind is: physical fights or verbal abuse or other inappropriate behaviors in some of these gambling matches.

Personally, I don`t have a strong opinion on this subject but I do belive that some pool tables in some pools halls in some towns & cities are damaged by some pool gamblers
 
stop crying about gambling-its old....you practice to become what you want to become
if you want to be a tournament champion than you take the necessary routes..style of practice,lessons-play in every tourney you can..focus on your own goals.when the real world comes around and you dont live in your parents house anymore you need to make money so you get a job,youre so uninvested in the job because its not your passion you keep getting fired or quitting-nice cycle.
you wanna gamble?most start with the older guys in their area 10s 20s-beat enough of them they back you into a match with a fish...win lose doesnt matter the cycle starts..
wanna be a hustler?doesnt work anymore the internet,snitches,too many shortstops guys knocking your action.good luck with that.
Guys like thorsten are the exception not the rule...
btw everyone can move to china or the phillipines if they wanna choose a route
 
I like both. I hate the idea that the only way to determine who is better is by gambling. It's laughable. Longer races, sure. But not gambling.

Daz didn't lose to Shane because Shane is a better gambler. He lost because Shane is a better player. Plain and simple.
 
Johnnyt said:
I always gambled on pool. I also had 2 paper routes, lawn cutting biz, and shoveled snow, raked leaves and such at 13-14. I always had plenty of money to buy things like a mint candy apple red ford convert cash and a 1951 Indian Chief at 16. I played pool for 60 years and figured out early not to make a full time job of it. Johnnyt
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Hey JohnnyT, We must have lived in parallel universes, I was also a newspaperboy and did all the other jobs as well. GUESS who is doing them today??? That is one of the fundamental changes in America I feel has had a terrible effect on our economy. To the issue of pool and gambling well there is a big difference in playing for a drink and serious gambling. Serious gambling has very little to do with actually playing pool it is more about hustling and intimidating the opponent than playing pool with them.
 
sjm said:
There is some truth in this, but I'm not buying it in full.
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Me neither...and I never gamble at pool.

Pool imo, is viewed in a somewhat negative light here in the US. I believe the reason for this is multi-faceted. Shady people....alcohol....drugs....cigarette smoke....gambling....fighting....all of these things as a whole have led to these negative views.

Gambling is done on every major sport in America....many minor sports too. It is nothing to see big action matches in other countries where pool is NOT viewed in a bad light.

So....although SOME people don't like pool because of the gambling alone...these people make up a very small percentage of the people how feel negative towards the game. It's the overall vibe that pool has put out over the years that has caused it not to flourish.

Maniac
 
Johnnyt said:
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
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Too much of any one thing is bad and the individual is consumed by it...
Life is all about balance. :thumbup:
If USA pool players (ama / pro) had the kind of options there counterparts have around the world, then they would not be as dependant on gambling.
This is why some sort of development plan is desperately needed in the USA pool scene.
TOO MUCH OF ONE THING IS A BAD THING!
 
Gambling. I have heard the pros are the best in the world. Then I have heard there are gamblers that play like pros. There is gambling in every sport. Just trying to think of any other sport where they don't want their name to be known for how good they are. There are pros that gamble and want the status of being labeled a pro. Kinda hard to hold down any job when you have to travel as much as pros. Tournaments aren't just on weekends. Pros have options to make extra money. Lessons, exhibitions etc.
 
Johnnyt said:
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
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I stuck with competition in short track speed skating from the early fifties till my later HS years, a good ten year run. There are many sports where money is not ones goal. What's sad is when I see a parent who has a hot shot kid that can draw his ball, and that child starts acting like adult gamblers, that sickens me and reminds me of the collateral damage the gambling side of pool can cause, as with any endeavor in life. Wall street is no different.
 
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Johnnyt said:
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
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I think you just state the obvious that pool is an Amateur sport. From that stand point it is very popular and growing. I am sorry people can't make a living at pool but that is the same with like every sport in the Olympics. I don't remember the last time I met a professional snow skier or archer. What happens with the pool player is they find a small living at pool for a short time but what they soon discover is life begins to pass them by. They hate their situation and still want to play pool for a living, a living that is just not there.

If they are smart they get on with a real life before it is too late. many do and we all know them. Players who could have been champions but decided that having nothing was not a very good alternatives. Sure they may lament about how if it wasn't for this or that they could have been really good, but I am sure few would change places with most of the down and outs we also all know.

So, bottom line is, we make our choices and live with them. I am sorry pool players die broke or end up on here begging for money to pay a medical bill. I only hope they feel it was worth it. Pool players do a lot of sour grape thinking and if that gets them through the day fine. In their heart of hearts though I would think they wish they had lived their lives differently. Pool is fun, but it is not a profession any more then any number of activities we would rather be doing then working.

I really have very little sympathy for pool players who are down and out, this was not bad luck or some unexpected outcome, it was predictable. They may not have really known what they were getting into when they started, but when the writing was on the wall they had a chance to make a change. Some do and some don't and have to live with their choices.

I remember sitting in a diner one early morning with a bunch of pool players after an all nighter in the pool room. They were looking around at the people getting ready to go to work and making fun of them as suckers. They sounded so arrogant and naive. Little did they know they were the suckers.
 
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Maniac said:
In my neck of the woods...it's dark-haired, brown-skinned men dripping with Rio Grande water!!!! :thumbup:

Maniac
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Spoken like a real citizen of the Lone Star State!

When our 'friends' in politics and big business decided to ignore our borders to obtain low wage workers they undermined the fabric of our great country. Then they went a step further (downhill imo) and moved the manufacturing to countries that allow children and forced labor to produce our products and increase their profits. Great for them bad for the American workers. Don't get me wrong here because if I lived in a country south of America and had to live in a mud hut with no electricity or plumbing I'd leave to. What was and is wrong is American politicians and businesses taking advantage of these poor people.. As we all know the results have not been beneficial to the legal existing population of our country. I will leave it there and hope I have not derailed this thread in the process of venting my displeasure with what has happened in the last 25 years to this place I call home!
 
I can remember going to pool tournaments in NYC hotels in there huge ballrooms with my Dad in the 1950's and 60's. The players were dressed in suits and ties and the had good sportsmanship in front of the public. Most poolrooms back then were dark and dirty with all kinds of hustlers and overall shady characters. What happened in the following years were those shady characters in the poolrooms replaced the well groomed sportsmen. Johnnyt
 
Eh, I don't know.

Many gamble, very very few go 'Pro'.

Even less "Gamblers' net any real money despite the many with delusions and selective memories of their past. ;) Which is really why they all go broke or try and go Pro.

:)
 
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