Maybe Gambling Is No Good 4 Pool

NYC Cue Dude

I understand the negative impact gambling has had on many sports. I see the lives affected by drugs, alcohol, and gambling addiction. My point is more in line with those who wish to do away with many of our rights, such as guns. I doubt you will ever do away with sports gambling, only try to control it. I doubt it is the main problem with billiards. We do not need blame. If we are to prosper look for answers without the big sponsors. Put on a good enough show and sponsors will be on board. Viewers may not care who wins. Just make it entertaining. Take a lesson from Pro Wrestling if video success is important. We will never be short of colorful characters.
 
bobalouiecda said:
I understand the negative impact gambling has had on many sports. I see the lives affected by drugs, alcohol, and gambling addiction. My point is more in line with those who wish to do away with many of our rights, such as guns. I doubt you will ever do away with sports gambling, only try to control it. I doubt it is the main problem with billiards. We do not need blame. If we are to prosper look for answers without the big sponsors. Put on a good enough show and sponsors will be on board. Viewers may not care who wins. Just make it entertaining. Take a lesson from Pro Wrestling if video success is important. We will never be short of colorful characters.
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I'm all for preserving individual rights. I am a rabid defender of the 2A myself. In my "hypothetical" scenario, the gambling was actually illegal, and although its a small potatoes prosecution, it could happen. I just don't support criminal behavior.
 
Prey said:
One of the reasons pool is in the mess it is now, in this country, because noone has any gamble in them.
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They have no gamble IN them because they have no money ON them.

The young people of today have to be some of the brokest...or non-workingest people I've ever seen.

Some of them....it's their fault....some, not so much.

But 20 and 30 year-old aren't exactly some of the richest people in America.

Maniac
 
Johnnyt said:
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
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It's not just the opportunity to make money.

Gambling IS what makes pool intriguing. It's the attraction of pool. It's integral to the game and the culture. Whether you have money or are broke, a wager is something anyone can understand. Who hasn't gone out of their way to see a money match or gamble on it?

By the way, pool room wagers are nothing compared to the gambling that takes place on country club golf courses every day.
 
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I’m not a prude or a puritan. I think people should be allowed to gamble with their money; it’s their business and nobody else’s. That said, gambling does have ramifications, nearly all of which are negative. Pool has a very active gambling culture that harms the sport and many of its players, limits it audience and turns off potential sponsors.

You can certainly enjoy pool for the game itself, irrespective of the culture of the sport. But as you expand your interest in the game beyond your own playing you can’t escape the pervasive low class atmosphere that has surrounded and infused the game throughout its history. You often can’t get to play many good players unless you “make it interesting”. This in itself might not be too bad, but with all the hustling and trickery going on, it can take a lot of effort just to get an honest game, and you may never know if you actually did so. The most celebrated stories and movies about the game glory in how clever one guy (or a group of guys) was when he cheated his opponent.
 
A gamble is something that is a 50/50 proposition...

That is why people match up with both sides usually thinking they have altered the odds so they are beating the system... Since weight is involved and you only have to win more than you lose to make money it seems that losing is OK... You learn to lose but you still win more than you lose so it can't be so bad....

Jean Balukas talked about the fact that by playing with men she learned to lose and it hurt her on the women's tour even tho she was still the strongest of the field in every event.. That's a pretty strong statement to think about...

Maybe this is why the euros don't usually gamble.. they understand that the game at the highest level is a slippery slope and a miss step could send them sliding off the side of the mountain...

There has to be a psychology here somewhere... Everyone likes free money and the euros play well enough to get some of it... Some of them do end up in the Philippines in action as part of their quest to become better players... But for the most part tell me again how gambling has created the monster players we have in the US who travel abroad and bring home the WPA crowns....

I will say that the TAR events and some of the new challenge matches even with money in the middle would be exceptions to the rule... Those are high profile trials by fire and very different than giving someone the nuts and trying to outrun it.... Which one do you think is more likely to teach you to lose?

Show me a gambler and I'll show you a loser.. Maybe not today but no one gets out alive and very few ever quit while they are ahead.. Those tables are where they lay the stiffs out....

Chris

Ohh and before someone mentions what gambling has done for the Pinoys let me remind you that they are an entirely different culture... The Pinoys have a saying that "one must lose 1000 times to become a champion"... They may be the only culture that doesn't learn how to lose. They seem to have a natural immunity to it... Or at least the ones who travel abroad are.... Jay would have to comment on this I think.....
 
terryhanna said:
I’m not a prude or a puritan. I think people should be allowed to gamble with their money; it’s their business and nobody else’s. That said, gambling does have ramifications, nearly all of which are negative. Pool has a very active gambling culture that harms the sport and many of its players, limits it audience and turns off potential sponsors.

You can certainly enjoy pool for the game itself, irrespective of the culture of the sport. But as you expand your interest in the game beyond your own playing you can’t escape the pervasive low class atmosphere that has surrounded and infused the game throughout its history. You often can’t get to play many good players unless you “make it interesting”. This in itself might not be too bad, but with all the hustling and trickery going on, it can take a lot of effort just to get an honest game, and you may never know if you actually did so. The most celebrated stories and movies about the game glory in how clever one guy (or a group of guys) was when he cheated his opponent.
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Very well said...

Agree 100% to this and the OP
 
Johnnyt said:
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
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I gambled all night at pool and it felt GRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAT!!! (tony the tiger great)
:thumbup::cool:;):D
 
CJ Wiley said:
Jeanette is a great money player and matches up with men for substantial "purses".

Gambling is the backbone of pool's history. There's even more money gambled on golf, and in the "big leagues," it's the driving force of the TV Ratings in college football, basketball, and especially professional sporting events/games.

Gambling on sports is a multi billion dollar industry in the US, and also a big influence in snooker's popularity in England.
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Big difference. For the athletes in the other sports you mention, to get caught gambling or being involved in gambling is a bannable offense. Ask Pete Rose or the 1919 "Black Sox."
 
Bob Dixon said:
I play in a room that has beer available for pool players and drinkers. You were somewhere that has pool tables available for drinkers. I don't set foot in the latter. They're infested with real, bottom of the barrel bums.

It's a shame that the game has sunk to a level that, in most areas of the country, the only place you can find a table (at least they call it a table) is in a ****hole like the one you describe.
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Man, I agree with this 100 percent. :)
 
Bob Dixon said:
If it's so unlikely why bring it up in the first place? If there was a real possibility of real sponsorship any behavior that would risk that would be extinguished very promptly.
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With the emphasis on "if." :wink:

American fans don't even support American professional pool anymore. We lose the Mosconi Cup, and now all American pro players are pariahs in the eyes of some American pool fans. It's sickening. :(
 
".......I don't think gambling is destructive to pool........"

But it is destructive to the slate of the pool table. To get a tight rack gamblers keep beating on top of the balls with the cue ball.
 
terryhanna said:
I’m not a prude or a puritan. I think people should be allowed to gamble with their money; it’s their business and nobody else’s. That said, gambling does have ramifications, nearly all of which are negative. Pool has a very active gambling culture that harms the sport and many of its players, limits it audience and turns off potential sponsors.

You can certainly enjoy pool for the game itself, irrespective of the culture of the sport. But as you expand your interest in the game beyond your own playing you can’t escape the pervasive low class atmosphere that has surrounded and infused the game throughout its history. You often can’t get to play many good players unless you “make it interesting”. This in itself might not be too bad, but with all the hustling and trickery going on, it can take a lot of effort just to get an honest game, and you may never know if you actually did so. The most celebrated stories and movies about the game glory in how clever one guy (or a group of guys) was when he cheated his opponent.
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I kind of disagree with most of what you say. If you take out the gambling, gunfighter nature and outlaw, "Live on their own terms" image pool has. It would not be more accepted by the public, public interest would be completely nonexistent. That image is in fact the only hook the game has for the public.

In response to your other comment about playing better players. You can get an honest game any given weekend. Pool may be the ONLY sport where you can pay a small entry fee and play, watch and mingle with world champions. These small tournaments are held all over the country and are open to anyone. The level of players that show up is often very high. These tournaments can be very educational in both playing and watching.
 
Bob Dixon said:
I play in a room that has beer available for pool players and drinkers. You were somewhere that has pool tables available for drinkers. I don't set foot in the latter. They're infested with real, bottom of the barrel bums.

It's a shame that the game has sunk to a level that, in most areas of the country, the only place you can find a table (at least they call it a table) is in a ****hole like the one you describe.
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What you say is true but that has always been the case. There is a difference between a pool room that serves beer and a bar with a pool table. I think today though, many bars that have pool tables and feature pool are very nice. They are not pool rooms, they are bars and may have only two or three table but there is a lot of serious pool being played in many bars.
 
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Johnnyt said:
I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt
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IMO to keep gambling alive or tournaments is to mix pool with other luck games such poker or casino games , or possibly dart, chess, bowling or others. Player wins most games (or points) win tournament. I think this way you encourage pool haters to play pool?? Just a thought
 
naji said:
IMO to keep gambling alive or tournaments is to mix pool with other luck games such poker or casino games , or possibly dart, chess, bowling or others. Player wins most games (or points) win tournament. I think this way you encourage pool haters to play pool?? Just a thought
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Who are the pool haters? I don't know anyone who hates pool. The average person likes pool even though they may not really play that often. Celebrities almost always have a billiard room in their home. It take on a sort of a status symbol to have a personal billiard room. All pool needs is to be the biggest it can be within it's own small world.

It will never be a main stream sport but has such a long history will always be around. It should not try to be something it is not but embrace what it is. A very popular game played by millions in all it's forms, as well as a subculture of it's most hard core players and fans.
 
macguy said:
Who are the pool haters? I don't know anyone who hates pool. The average person likes pool even though they may not really play that often. Celebrities almost always have a billiard room in their home. It take on a sort of a status symbol to have a personal billiard room. All pool needs is to be the biggest it can be within it's own small world.

It will never be a main stream sport but has such a long history will always be around. It should not try to be something it is not but embrace what it is. A very popular game played by millions in all it's forms, as well as a subculture of it's most hard core players and fans.
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Sorry i meant those that know they have no chance to win due to pros entering low level tournaments or even big ones and shy away and not enter. Inserting additional luck could allow many none advance to join.
 
Bob Dixon said:
If it's so unlikely why bring it up in the first place? If there was a real possibility of real sponsorship any behavior that would risk that would be extinguished very promptly.
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Of course it happened, Bob. Scott smith was the TD during the World Summit of pool when it was held in NYC's grand central station. It was 2005 or 2006 (can't remember). The beer company (michelob, if I remember that correctly, too), showed up on day 2 to find Scott set up at a card table, in the arena, 10feeet away from the players, taking bets from the players. I saw them freak out and leave.
 
naji said:
IMO to keep gambling alive or tournaments is to mix pool with other luck games such poker or casino games , or possibly dart, chess, bowling or others. Player wins most games (or points) win tournament. I think this way you encourage pool haters to play pool?? Just a thought
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And a pretty good thought at that. Johnnyt
 
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