Maybe Gambling Is No Good 4 Pool

[Johnnyt]

If gambling and hustling on pool is one of the main reasons holding pool back, I'm very guilty of that. Out of the 1000's of people I've played for about 60 years I could count on my 10 fingers the people I played for no money or at the very least a drink. Johnnyt

 

[JoeyA]

I’m beginning to believe that gambling really is no good for pool. I can’t believe I said that. Just about every American pro started out gambling when he saw how easy it was to make a pretty good weekly check UNTIL everyone got to know them and there speed. Then it dries up quick. Now after a few years of gambling they start playing in tournaments and unless there SVB or one of the top 5 in the country they have to do just about anything to survive. Most die broke and early because of the life they chose and having no health insurance to see a doctor when they have health problems.

My point is if there were no gambling in pool, very few would stick with it because there would no money in it from the start. Most would get a job and play pool as a hobby. You might have 30-50 that could be good enough to play in tournaments and most of them would be of a different class. Maybe more class would mean more sponsors and fewer tournaments needed. Johnnyt

OMG Johnnyt, you've gone over to the other side. :shocked2::shocked2::shocked2:

JoeyA

 

[macguy]

Complete nonsense, as ever.

Actually it is true, they even have betting windows at the world championships. When I was there they had lines at the betting windows as the odds changed from one match to another. Bookies in the streets all take action on snooker and it is legal. It is a lot more fun to sweat a match you have a bet on and they really like to bet over there.

 

[Johnnyt]

OMG Johnnyt, you've gone over to the other side. :shocked2::shocked2::shocked2:

JoeyA

LMAO. I didn't say I was going to change. . Johnnyt

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Actually it is true, they even have betting windows at the world championships. When I was there they had lines at the betting windows as the odds changed from one match to another. Bookies in the streets all take action on snooker and it is legal. It is a lot more fun to sweat a match you have a bet on and they really like to bet over there.

Here. I'm British. English, in fact. A regular attendee of snooker events and the Crucible, and no stranger to the bookies and the concept of betting on sports.

Gambling ain't the reason for whatever nonsense Bob's on about this time (and who can keep track of that?).

Snooker is popular because - get this - it's a good game. Football is also a good game, and the biggest show on earth by a country mile, but you lot don't like that either.

What is the common denominator here?

 

[macguy]

Here. I'm British. English, in fact. A regular attendee of snooker events and the Crucible, and no stranger to the bookies and the concept of betting on sports.

Gambling ain't the reason for whatever nonsense Bob's on about this time (and who can keep track of that?).

Snooker is popular because - get this - it's a good game. Football is also a good game, and the biggest show on earth by a country mile, but you lot don't like that either.

What is the common denominator here?

You are right it is more complex that that. It could also be a cultural thing. In England snooker seems to be regarded like a religion to many. Just being English make one a snooker fan by birth right. Pool can not even begin to compare to that in the US. In fact, I can't think of anything we in the US love like that. We don't really care about anything except the latest fad.

 

[ironman]

What you say is true but that has always been the case. There is a difference between a pool room that serves beer and a bar with a pool table. I think today though, many bars that have pool tables and feature pool are very nice. They are not pool rooms, they are bars and may have only two or three table but there is a lot of serious pool being played in many bars.

IN my town all places are bats with pool tables abd the owners do not see 6 feet past the bar.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Uh . . . OK. So first it was unlikely. And now, it happened. And it happened eight years ago. So Michelob passed the word around to every other possible corporate sponsor that someone was betting at a tournament and that's why pool doesn't have corporate sponsorship now?

If all we have to do to get corporate sponsorship is form a pro players organization and ban any form of gambling, let's do it. Then watch the corporate sponsorship pour in?

I think there's a little more to it than that.

There sure is more to it than that. For years, pool promoters had, and still are, pursuing beer sponsors. Much like football and other sports do. Pool has had such a bad reputation, that it hadn't been possible. Now that I think about it, it may have been amber bock (?) produced by Michelob. Yeah, that partnership lasted 2 days. Imagine that, a sponsor lending their name to an event where the TD, had a monetary interest to manipulate the outcome of a professional sporting event. How dare they be offended by that premise, right Bob? It's people like you, that defend the indefensible while twisting themselves into pretzels rationalizing and making excuses, that do the most harm. Because you don't SEE the harm in it, doesn't mean you're not BLIND.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The last one was probably Miller Lite.

There sure is more to it than that. For years, pool promoters had, and still are, pursuing beer sponsors. Much like football and other sports do. Pool has had such a bad reputation, that it hadn't been possible. Now that I think about it, it may have been amber bock (?) produced by Michelob. Yeah, that partnership lasted 2 days. Imagine that, a sponsor lending their name to an event where the TD, had a monetary interest to manipulate the outcome of a professional sporting event. How dare they be offended by that premise, right Bob? It's people like you, that defend the indefensible while twisting themselves into pretzels rationalizing and making excuses, that do the most harm. Because you don't SEE the harm in it, doesn't mean you're not BLIND.

From our information no promoter has presented a beer company with a comprehensive marketing plan involving pool in many, many, years. The last one was probably Miller Lite.

Miller Lite, a beer company that used sports celebrities to sell its product in the 1970s and 1980s, shot a commercial that showcased Mizerak. In the commercial, Mizerak made a difficult trick shot making the commercial famous. During the funny advertisement, Steve says that you can "really work up a thirst even when you're just showing off." When he was asked how many takes did it took for him to get all 3 of those shots to work like they did, Mizerak responded, "You can't really say it in that way. Sometimes there were other things that happened besides the shots going. The shots would go but the film wasn't in focus. Someone in the background would sneeze. You know, somebody did something else. We actually did it 181 times in 8 1/2 hours. We did it from about 9:30 in the morning to 5:00 in the afternoon. It was a long day, but it was a very successful day and it was a day that would change my career and my life. I owe a lot to Miller Lite and I also owe a lot to my wife Karen."

 

[terryhanna]

From our information no promoter has presented a beer company with a comprehensive marketing plan involving pool in many, many, years. The last one was probably Miller Lite.

Miller Lite, a beer company that used sports celebrities to sell its product in the 1970s and 1980s, shot a commercial that showcased Mizerak. In the commercial, Mizerak made a difficult trick shot making the commercial famous. During the funny advertisement, Steve says that you can "really work up a thirst even when you're just showing off." When he was asked how many takes did it took for him to get all 3 of those shots to work like they did, Mizerak responded, "You can't really say it in that way. Sometimes there were other things that happened besides the shots going. The shots would go but the film wasn't in focus. Someone in the background would sneeze. You know, somebody did something else. We actually did it 181 times in 8 1/2 hours. We did it from about 9:30 in the morning to 5:00 in the afternoon. It was a long day, but it was a very successful day and it was a day that would change my career and my life. I owe a lot to Miller Lite and I also owe a lot to my wife Karen."

that's funny because I saw Mizerak at rustys in dallas once and he ordered a beer and it was a BUD LITE said he liked it better true story

 

[JumpinJoe]

Here's a perfect example of no one watches the tournaments...
I just left the space city open in Houston,Texas. There was about 80/100 people left in the pool room at 2:00 am.

They have 9 tables being played on at the moment out of like the 30 in the room.

The 9 ball finals is playing its on stream, hillbilly Bryant is playing Jeremy Jones, there was 2 people watching it live, one was the referee and some other random degenerate.

The one pocket was down to 3 players. Sylver Ochoa was playing Joey Gray on stream, there may have been 10 people watching this.

Now, 2 tables away from the one pocket semi finals Richie Richeson was playing Joey Barnes, $300 a game one pocket, the table next to them had Robert frost playing one pocket betting like $100 a game, the table directly next to it had a local Yoyo playin cliff Joyner $150 a game one pocket. Now there was 4 tables being played on in the back of the room by bangers.

So with 2 people watching the 9 ball FINALS by 2 solid top players, and about 10 people watching the one hole semis by 2 monsters, and about 10 people around the bangers area, that leaves about 60/80 people, they were all sweating the 3 GAMBLING matches with no interest in the tourneys. They could talk, side bet etc. Listen to all the banter and so on. That's the way I've always seen pool, and always will. And even those that were playin in the tourney still, they were all sweating the other things when they were waiting to play.

No one really wants to sweat a tourney where someone has little at risk. Would rather watch people,players, stackers be at risk. Far more interesting.

Edit: the 9 ball had like 6k at stake for first. The one pocket had like 3k, noones watching the tourneys. Lol

 

[NYC cue dude]

that's funny because I saw Mizerak at rustys in dallas once and he ordered a beer and it was a BUD LITE said he liked it better true story

Than you have bad info. I know that most promoters laid low after the Camel fiasco, but that the large beer companies were approached as far back as the mid 90's. Then, Charlie had spoken to all of them, after the UPA had been created. It wasn't until around 2005 when he made headway with amberbock. They agreed to a tentative "partnership". I was told it was a double secret probationary type arrangement. Obviously, it failed rather quickly. 48 hours. Gosh my memory is terrible, but I seem to recall that Michelob even took down their sponsorship banners. (Anyone who attended and might remember, please chime in).

The right move then was to show Scott Smith the door instead of letting the sponsors pass through it. They haven't bothered to look back, to this day, by the way.

Outside of America, beer sponsorship has been a corner stone for professional pool for the last decade, at least. I've heard though, that those sponsorships are currently on the decline.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Here's a perfect example of no one watches the tournaments...
I just left the space city open in Houston,Texas. There was about 80/100 people left in the pool room at 2:00 am.

They have 9 tables being played on at the moment out of like the 30 in the room.

The 9 ball finals is playing its on stream, hillbilly Bryant is playing Jeremy Jones, there was 2 people watching it live, one was the referee and some other random degenerate.

The one pocket was down to 3 players. Sylver Ochoa was playing Joey Gray on stream, there may have been 10 people watching this.

Now, 2 tables away from the one pocket semi finals Richie Richeson was playing Joey Barnes, $300 a game one pocket, the table next to them had Robert frost playing one pocket betting like $100 a game, the table directly next to it had a local Yoyo playin cliff Joyner $150 a game one pocket. Now there was 4 tables being played on in the back of the room by bangers.

So with 2 people watching the 9 ball FINALS by 2 solid top players, and about 10 people watching the one hole semis by 2 monsters, and about 10 people around the bangers area, that leaves about 60/80 people, they were all sweating the 3 GAMBLING matches with no interest in the tourneys. They could talk, side bet etc. Listen to all the banter and so on. That's the way I've always seen pool, and always will. And even those that were playin in the tourney still, they were all sweating the other things when they were waiting to play.

No one really wants to sweat a tourney where someone has little at risk. Would rather watch people,players, stackers be at risk. Far more interesting.

Edit: the 9 ball had like 6k at stake for first. The one pocket had like 3k, noones watching the tourneys. Lol

And that's where we differ. You label the one guy watching the stream a "degenerate". Myself and the rest of America would classify those wasting their lives away, gambling, hustling and cheating eachother, the degenerates.

 

[JAM]

You know what's not good for pool? Big egos that won't allow others to excel.

Gambling has always been a part of the pocket billiards culture. It is part of the mystique that makes pool alluring to many.

There are two types of pool fans: pool purist and action enthusiast. That's how it all boils down today in 2013.

As far as the industry goes, big egos prevent them from working together. Like the so-called American pros, it's every man for himself. Lots of infighting and back-stabbing and outright jealousy, unbeknownst to most.

Machine Gun" Lou Butera said it best in 1960: You've got five companies doing over $10 million a year in this game. Yet, the amount they spend on the promotion of the game is peanuts, ridiculous. Now, if those companies can't put a quarter of a million of that into the promotion of the game, something is very wrong. There should be a Brunswick Open, an Ebonite Open, a Fisher Open, a National Open, just to name a few...all the big manufacturers should be promoting the game through tournaments.

My thoughts are if there was a legitimate tour for aspiring pros and pros to compete in, the gambling would be secondary. Gone are the days of the road warriors who traveled from coast to coast. Before the advent of the Internet, they were dancing in the dark, so to speak. Word of mouth is how these pool tales were disseminated.

I'm not going to say gambling should be outlawed in the pool world, but I do believe something brand-new needs to take place. Yes, the pros need to shape up, but so, too, does the industry. Without the industry, the new era of pros will continue to be nonexistent, and we'll be having this same conversation 10, 20, 30 years from now, maybe, unless pool drops off the map.

Lou Butera got it right, FWIW. He realized tghere was no money in professional pool competitions, so he went in another direction. Butera appeared in several films as an actor and technical advisor. He had a cameo appearance, as himself, in the pool hustling comedy film The Baltimore Bullet and as a pool player in Police Academy 6: City Under Siege. Butera was the technical advisor in the 1984 film Racing to the Moon, starring Sean Penn. Like Hopkins, Varner, Sigel, et cetera, Butera made something happen utililzing his pool skills, but tournaments just didn't cut the mustard.

 

[itsfroze]

The Winner of That Tournament Was:

I think Santos won that tournament at Grand Central Station.

 

[JumpinJoe]

And that's where we differ. You label the one guy watching the stream a "degenerate". Myself and the rest of America would classify those wasting their lives away, gambling, hustling and cheating eachother, the degenerates.

They are all degenerates that's in there at 2:00 am, myself included. There's really nothing to differ on.
My point was no one wants to watch the tourneys. It's been that way every since I been around pool from the early 90s till now. I don't think it can or will ever change. If side by side people are always going to be pulled to the action side no matter who's playing the finals of the tourneys.

 

[Johnnyt]

I can see pool taking off showing gambling, but only if the casinos and sports betting places started taking bets on pool. But most of us know that will never happen because some greedy players killed that years ago. Johnnyt

 

[NYC cue dude]

I think Santos won that tournament at Grand Central Station.

Yes, you are correct.

 

[JumpinJoe]

And this is how crazy the tourney ended......
It's races to 9/7

JJ Won the hot seat. Hillbilly comes from the one loss side.

Final score 9/0 and 7/0

2 sets for the ages were missed by all in attendance

 

[Onthehill88]

The good and the bad

I will say myself I have been on the gambling side and tournament side for the past 9 years. The way I looked at it in my younger days was an investment in my game and talent and now with my wisdom beyond my years (at 25) I see that hard work and dedication will get you to wherever you want to go whether you want to be a road player or tournament player. For me personally tournaments are what I will be striving for now. The only problem I see with gambling now a days is the internet and everybody and mom wants weight. If you do decide you have the need or want to gamble play even if you're feeling sporty or don't play at all. It makes me sick seeing so many broke old men and unemployed folks trying to scam every person that walks in a pool hall. If you feel the need to gamble get a heart transplant and play someone that wants to match up.


-Jordan