Men vs. women

Ok first let me say I have no dog in this fight. I have a somewhat but not totally unrelated question. I know, here it comes - but ok here it goes. When playing a chic; somewhat regardless of her speed ( although I completely realize that her speed is directly related in regards to the answer of this question ) what are yalls feelings on playing a female just for play play. Both sides of the fence - the higher speed ones get turned on by playing good and running out or what not and maybe the lower speed ones get turned off by getting their brains beet in. No disrespect to ANYONE but im quite sure all the guys out there know exactly what im talking about . Honestly no big deal but trying to lighten things up a bit and honestly just curious on the responses. MY FIRST PROVOCATIVE POST-OH NO-OH WELL HERE WE GO!
 
Donny Lutz said:
I think such a match would draw huge interest and sponsors. But would the American men's team risk such a possible blow to their egos?
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why would they not...they'd be the fav's, and they would grab the cash. They'd be fools not to take it, and I doubt anyone would say no...pool players don't say no to a free lunch :)

And I love watching womens pool. But if they can't hang in the tourneys, how are they gonna beat the Mens' team in the US ???

It's not a big deal. Alison Fisher recognized that men are "different", because they are more aggressive, and have more of a killer instinct, and she thinks that helps them play better pool, more risks, more rewards :)
 
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BmoreMoney said:
Please no Flak, im just floating an idea. How's about this: For some time, quite along time US men set the bar for pool playing. Over recent times while other groups were substantially behind these US men they began to improve - alot. Gains were more noticable because of net gains. Not so much for US men because of this example - the closer u travel to the speed of light the amount of energy required to continue advancing closer multiplies exponentially. Just an idea dont get mad anyone.
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Why would I get mad?
I think I get it.....E=MC Hammer
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...=F4wjFgHyEyb3ShTtY26TxA&bvm=bv.61190604,d.aWc
 
fields of study

overlord said:
Donny the fields of study that you reference have nothing to do with the data as it relates to pool. Efren slept under a pool table in a pool hall from the time he was 9 years old. What women could live this lifestyle/ Sports is based on statistical data it is unequivocal not subject to fashion. Efren is getting a little long in the tooth; by your reckoning he should be able to join the women's tour.

Women will be equal in pool when the data suggests they are and not moment before. But then again this kind of psycho babble might make you get lucky.
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What on earth does Efren sleeping under a pool table have to do with "male superiority"? Why on earth would you think I want Efren to be allowed on the women's tour? Psycho babble? I hear this term a lot from people who have little knowledge in the fields of Psychology, especially Social Psychology. When you can mount no logical response, resort to an insult.

I mentioned my education in response to someone who challenged my right to comment on the concept of male superiority, which is at the heart of the discussion.
Unless you've also done some study in those fields, how can you be so sure that there's nothing there that relates to issues of "superiority"? Or how this applies to sports, including pool?

When I was in school, beginning in the 1940s, there were virtually no sports programs for women. Why do you suppose that was?

I also know that many here reject the whole idea of education and love to attack those who have put an effort into learning.

I might have been a successful pro pool player, and a Hall of Fame bowler for that matter, but I put a lot of time into my education and writing articles, essays and books on a variety of topics instead. I'm not sorry for that in the least. I managed to also find time to become a Certified bowling and billiards instructor, who likes to share ideas and ask questions.

If you go back to my original post, you will discover that I made no claims, but simply asked a question and proposed why I think it's a legitimate question...
 
Which game...

pt109 said:
Don't need no stinkin' top 10....
..when Cliff Joyner was the best 1-pocket player, I think he needed the
7 off the top 10 9-ball players.
...and Cliff gave Allison, in her prime, in her home room, the 7....
....and robbed her for $6,000
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Do you think he'd give her a comparable spot in snooker?

I've read about and heard personal accounts of unknown Asian women appearing in American pool halls and beating legendary players for big bucks over the years. I don't expect any woman to beat every man every time.

I'm tired of these anecdotal examples. Last weekend, Ga Young Kim beat Jasmine Ouschan 17 straight games of 9-ball. Does that mean that JO has no chance to beat GYK?

When Gerda beat Earl in a big event a few years ago, he threw a fit. Did her win prove that Earl can't beat a woman? Of course not. It did prove, very clearly, that women CAN beat the greatest male players. And they're doing it more often, in case no one's noticed.

It wasn't that long ago that women weren't even allowed in pool halls...I think it's amazing what they've accomplished, and I'd say, "You ain't seen nuthin' yet!"
 
I tend to agree Donny,but would like to add that men win EVERY time when you compare sheer numbers.

Look at it this way. How many women ARE there in the whole world that can beat Ga on a regular or daily basis? You would think maybe 8-10 of the others right?

To the best of my knowledge,there are least 80 men and maybe a couple hundred that maybe wouldn't dominate,but would have a better than even shot at beating her here in just the U.S. alone,but I've been wrong before,just don't remember it :p. Tommy D.
 
This is pretty simple to figure out... The one thing that separates the men from the women? Testosterone. It's not about who practices more, whether you spent your youth sleeping under a pool table, or if you've never stepped foot in a poolroom. It's completely biological. Testosterone makes men stronger than females, be more aggressive and be more assertive. That's not opinion, that's fact.... Prior to, and during competition men's testosterone levels typically increase, think that doesn't factor into this??? Men, also due to testosterone have bigger hearts that in return can pump more blood and typically have better oxygen saturation in their blood than women. There's a big ingredient in this equation, due to better oxygen levels in their blood it enables men to perform better under duress and be less likely to dog it. It also propels the primal instinct in men to have a kill or be killed mentality. Testosterone and estrogen are what instills the hunter/gatherer in men and the motherly instinct in women.... You can debate and argue this subject to death, it's simply biological....
 
I have been in a few events here in the South East. There aren't a lot of women in them. Don't dog out tourneys around here without checking the players lists. I was in one a few years ago.. If I can remember right.. Yu Ram Cha and Thorsten H split. And we had our share of players. I have watched Ga Young give as good as she got in matches. I am not saying that they can beat SVB.. not many people can. But you can't write them off for being girls. I am going to do a little research.. because I was under the impression that they don't play in the US Open because they aren't allowed to. I'm off to google.

I found it. Berry opened it up to women in 2010. I am trying to find results though. Now I am curious.
 
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The Saw said:
This is pretty simple to figure out... The one thing that separates the men from the women? Testosterone. It's not about who practices more, whether you spent your youth sleeping under a pool table, or if you've never stepped foot in a poolroom. It's completely biological. Testosterone makes men stronger than females, be more aggressive and be more assertive. That's not opinion, that's fact.... Prior to, and during competition men's testosterone levels typically increase, think that doesn't factor into this??? Men, also due to testosterone have bigger hearts that in return can pump more blood and typically have better oxygen saturation in their blood than women. There's a big ingredient in this equation, due to better oxygen levels in their blood it enables men to perform better under duress and be less likely to dog it. It also propels the primal instinct in men to have a kill or be killed mentality. Testosterone and estrogen are what instills the hunter/gatherer in men and the motherly instinct in women.... You can debate and argue this subject to death, it's simply biological....
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Nowadays being politically or socially correct seems to try and drive common sense. I found it very interesting on 60 minutes about the Lipitor amounts given to both men and women. 60 minutes said most all drug testing and design and implimitation was done on Males only, not females, so they are getting the same dose. In Lipitors situation it overdosed the female by 45%. Now women with headaches long term and unexpected heart attacks are looking Closely at those amounts/numbers/milligrams. who would of thought they only used male test subjects, it was to save money.
 
I dunno...sometimes my wife tells me I have no heart so not sure mine is bigger than the average woman lol. I kid I kid.
 
PROG8R said:
I have been in a few events here in the South East. There aren't a lot of women in them. Don't dog out tourneys around here without checking the players lists. I was in one a few years ago.. If I can remember right.. Yu Ram Cha and Thorsten H split. And we had our share of players. I have watched Ga Young give as good as she got in matches. I am not saying that they can beat SVB.. not many people can. But you can't write them off for being girls. I am going to do a little research.. because I was under the impression that they don't play in the US Open because they aren't allowed to. I'm off to google.
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That is the very tip top of the women's pool world you are talking about though. There are a few 100, maybe a few thousand men that can play with the top 10 women and beat them at least 50% of the time.

Heck, there is a guy in my league now that I have never seen before that runs 2-3 racks all the time. Not a lot of top women can do that.
 
Donny Lutz, the poster formerly known as Push&Pool... It's the only thing that makes sense


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This could be an interesting thread... sadly it is not only poolworld which is overpopulated by men with archaic assumptions of male superiority, but it is the pool forums as well.

I respect you OP (Donny) for willing to fight this fight, but you are going to lose. The pool world is not yet as gender neutral as are many other parts of society, which is regrettable.

Not to say that there haven't been many thoughtful and reasonable replies to this thread so far, there have been.
 
Donny with all due respect no one is making fun of your academic achievements. When you mention women's sports you reference sport's programs for women. The reason women have their own sports programs is that in most sports they have no chance against the men.

As you know there are key hormonal differences between men and women. Now the east Germans addressed this reality by giving their female athletes testosterone shots. Women for the most part in pool have not made the sacrafices nescessary to play at the highest level. Many top male players dropped out of school and have played the game to the exclusion of anything else since they were kids. Bustamante quit school in 7th grade and played pool full time according to Billiards Digest. How many female players have sacrficed as much for the game and played for the money since before they went through pubert?. How many women slept in their cars out on the road? A lot of the top men play all the games as well One Pocket, Billiards, Straight pool,Ten Ball, and Snooker. How many women play One Pocket and Billiards? Answer not many that I have seen. It takes a long time to accumulate the aggregate knowledge to play at the championship level. Even in chess women have their own tournaments. As of 2012 according to a google search no women has won a mixed gender world championship in chess.



It is not politically correct in today's world to take the position that men and women are different. On college campuses it is anathema.
 
My guess is that a fair game between a top 5 in the world male and a top 5 in the world female would be 4 games on the wire in a race to 11 playing ten ball. With alternate breaks, perhaps 3 games on the wire is enough. Either way, it is a big spot.
 
It's not like this is some hypothetical mystery folks. It's not like asking if Brittany Griner could guard Lebron in an NBA game.

Top women have played in several men's events in the past 6-8 years. Just search people here on AZ... Overwhelmingly, the top women playing in men's event have had at best respectable showings.

Ga Young Kim and Jasmin Ouschan have had some decent finishes in men's events, Allison Fisher has been mixed with some decent showings to getting slaughtered in IPT events mid 2000's when she was in her prime. Karen Corr has a couple decent results too.

They can hang, but can't win nor consistently finish high.
 
Rasputin said:
I respect you OP (Donny) for willing to fight this fight, but you are going to lose. The pool world is not yet as gender neutral as are many other parts of society, which is regrettable.
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Not sure why some people keep throwing that line of poo around. Just because women have a historically harder time excelling at pool doesn't make people gender-biased. Ignoring reality doesn't change it. It's okay to celebrate and acknowledge differences in the sexes. Doing so doesn't make one biased.
 
Birriards said:
It's not like this is some hypothetical mystery folks. It's not like asking if Brittany Griner could guard Lebron in an NBA game.

Top women have played in several men's events in the past 6-8 years. Just search people here on AZ... Overwhelmingly, the top women playing in men's event have had at best respectable showings.

Ga Young Kim and Jasmin Ouschan have had some decent finishes in men's events, Allison Fisher has been mixed with some decent showings to getting slaughtered in IPT events mid 2000's when she was in her prime. Karen Corr has a couple decent results too.

They can hang, but can't win nor consistently finish high.
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Actually, Karen Corr won some Joss tour events, but that's not like winning the US Open 9-ball.
 
To the best of my knowledge women can play in the open tournaments. But men can't play on the Womens tour. I wonder why:sorry:
 
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