Message from Allen Hopkins

ribdoner said:
Could a benefactor be pickin up the tab???;)
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I'm sure that there are several attorneys that would jump at the opportunity to represent the players against such a high-profile person as KT. I'm not just referring to low end, underqualified ones, but well known attorneys that love the limelight.

Their day in the sun - free possibly International exposure - publicity.

Jim
 
JoeyA...<<Great lawyers for free, sounds like a back-up plan although I find it hard to believe any great lawyers are gonna belly-up for free but who knows, hell I'm still hoping the IPT survives.>>

Hope springs enternal...but I agree with you. Absent such freebie representation, I just worry that the current "passion of the moment" will lead to a macho..."hold 'em by the nose and kick 'em in the ass" mentality that does not recognize what a CAN OF WORMS...and a SNAKE PIT...the judicial system really is...a system where in an all too large percentage of the cases...the lawyers end up the big winners.

There are those who know that and those who are going to find it out.

Regards,
Jim
 
ribdoner...<<Could a benefactor be pickin up the tab???>>

Could be. Let's HOPE so. But let me tell ya what. To pursue KT/IPT...JUST through a jury trial...nevermind an almost certain appeal...is a TWO-THREE YEAR GIG at a cost of TWO HUNDRED GRAND...MINIMUM.

Gotte be SOME benefactor!

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
I just worry that the current "passion of the moment" will lead to a macho..."hold 'em by the nose and kick 'em in the ass" mentality that does not recognize what a CAN OF WORMS...and a SNAKE PIT...the judicial system really is...a system where in an all too large percentage of the cases...the lawyers end up the big winners.

There are those who know that and those who are going to find it out.

Regards,
Jim
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I think that's more on the side of "us" as in those of us on the forums and not so much from the players. From what I've been hearing so far.... they seem to be going about it the right way.

The players are hyped about joining together but as far as the game plan... they do have a game plan and they're taking steps, not leaps. They're going about this in the right way... IMO, anyway. They're organized, patient, and thinking things through.

I really think they're going to end up surprising a few people... people tend to give pool players very little credit in matters like this because of the "every man for himself" mentality of the past. ;)
 
Timberly...GREAT NEWS!

<<I think that's more on the side of "us" as in those of us on the forums and not so much from the players. From what I've been hearing so far.... they seem to be going about it the right way.

The players are hyped about joining together but as far as the game plan... they do have a game plan and they're taking steps, not leaps. They're going about this in the right way... IMO, anyway. They're organized, patient, and thinking things through.

I really think they're going to end up surprising a few people... people tend to give pool players very little credit in matters like this because of the "every man for himself" mentality of the past.
__________________
 
SpiderWebComm said:
NOTE: Allen personally asked me to post this to AZ Billiards - as to get his message out asap (he doesn't want to setup an AZB account). This message is only directed to professional players - and he encourages all pros to e-mail him at his address below with comments.


To All IPT Players:

Please calm down and give KT a chance. At the first chance, I'm hearing talk about lawsuits. Why not talk about what we can do to help KT make this tour successful? He still has paid more money to professional players than any other promoter or organization ever.

I believe he was a little unlucky because of the government banning gambling on the Internet. If his intentions were not to pay us at all, he wouldn't even pay a million-dollar prize fund. Before KT came around, we never played for this amount of money before. It's not all his fault anyways, if the players were organized - we would not be in this situation.

I believe for any hope of pro players making serious money on a televised tour, we need to stick together and support KT and the IPT for the future of professional pool.

Regards,

Allen Hopkins
Professional Pool Player
allen.hopkins@hotmail.com
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It's not all his fault anyways, if the players were organized-we would not be in this situation.

Paint me stupid, but, what in the hell does this mean? How in the world do you begin to blame this situation on the players? What would or could the players have done to stop KT from spreading all his offensive BULLSHIT.

The simple side of all this is really quite simple. KT's big mouth wrote a check that his hummin bird ass couldn't cash. He lied about his wealth and about excrowing money to fund the IPT. He stood in Orlando and made a speech attempting to sell 200 people on this. He was the savior. They weren't going to be able to sleep that night. They could hold their heads high and so on and so on.

If the players were organized, they would not be in this situation. What the hell, again, does this mean? Show how the players are at fault here?

Mr Hopkins, I've enjouyed watching you play this game for decades and have always considered you one of the best talents to play the game. You have gone on to promote and create some great events. You desreve the HOF, no doubt about it.

I do believe that you need to re-think your stance here. Sure, KT paid good money in Orlando and in Vegas. Thanks, He was supposed to do that. He paid up, just like he was suppose to. Just as you have always done. Why, you were supposed to.

Reno came and since, there has been nothing but, Bull$shit and lies. Now, as one of the best to have ever played the game, you suggest that the players BACK his play. They are to encourage this slippery POS to continue? They are to enable him to write another chapter in this cheap "DIME STORE NOVEL".

Pool doesn't desreve this crap and quite frankly, I thought YOUwould deserve and expect better treatment.

If the player were organized they wouldn't be in this situation!! You are exactly right, because they never should have played until this person, of all people, had "POSTED"!! Why weren't any of you veterans wiser?
 
ironman said:
It's not all his fault anyways, if the players were organized-we would not be in this situation.

If the player were organized they wouldn't be in this situation!! You are exactly right, because they never should have played until this person, of all people, had "POSTED"!! Why weren't any of you veterans wiser?
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Because of what has happened too them, it HAS made something happen, and it took something like this to get them all to come together, I think that's a good thing. It also wouldn't take much for AH to get a Name and Password because of the 'stir'.
 
Island Drive said:
Because of what has happened too them, it HAS made something happen, and it took something like this to get them all to come together, I think that's a good thing. It also wouldn't take much for AH to get a Name and Password because of the 'stir'.
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I agree with you that it is a good thing. It is a shame that it took something of this magnitude to provoke such a movement, good things often come from bad. As mt grandmother says,"everytime a door closes, another opens".

Professional Pool and pool on TV is not dead though. There are those working on something as we speak. This will be something very solid and stable. I think a lot was learned from this IPT fiasco. Many steps must be taken by both sides to insure nothing like this happens in pool again.
 
I'm curious to see if anyone actually disagrees with Allen Hopkins's statement, "It's not all his [Kevin Trudeau's] fault anyways, if the players were organized - we would not be in this situation" and why.

Charlie Williams started the UPA a few years ago in direct reaction to Barry Behrman's inability to come up with the prize fund at the end of one of his US Open events. One of the requirements for UPA sanctioning is to have the prize fund in escrow, thus eliminating problems such as Barry's. Charlie took (and still takes) a lot of flak for trying to start an organization to protect the players.

Now that the players are getting screwed yet again by a promoter/tour, what are they trying to do? Unionize. Too little, too late.

Why is it that the UPA was so frowned upon from its inception, while now it seems the general consensus of the AZ community is that the players should unionize now. Shouldn't they have unionized BEFORE the fact? If so, isn't Allen completely correct in his assessment?

The fundamental lesson to be learned here, besides KT's crookedness and ability to drag down good people with him (see Deno Andrews), is that proactive beats reactive any day. I'm fairly certain that KT would not have accepted UPA sanctioning, or any other union-type activity. I'm also fairly certain that had the issue been forced, there wouldn't have been many players sitting out - they all were blinded by the promise of huge money (and who can blame them for that?). Unfortunately, it's not all KT's fault he took advantage of the players - he wouldn't have been able to take advantage of them if they hadn't let him.

-djb
 
There have been several attempts at a Union for pool players, at the UPA finals Johnny Archer was trying to rally people up. Just because it hasn't been done successfully doesn't mean it hasn't been tried............it's been tried many times.

There is one factor that screws it up every time though, a pool player wants to run the show. Do you think ball players run the NBA? No, they let people who have the knowledge do that job. Pool players should do just that, play pool and have someone with good organization skills run a union.
 
DoomCue said:
I'm curious to see if anyone actually disagrees with Allen Hopkins's statement, "It's not all his [Kevin Trudeau's] fault anyways, if the players were organized - we would not be in this situation" and why.

Charlie Williams started the UPA a few years ago in direct reaction to Barry Behrman's inability to come up with the prize fund at the end of one of his US Open events. One of the requirements for UPA sanctioning is to have the prize fund in escrow, thus eliminating problems such as Barry's. Charlie took (and still takes) a lot of flak for trying to start an organization to protect the players.

Now that the players are getting screwed yet again by a promoter/tour, what are they trying to do? Unionize. Too little, too late.

Why is it that the UPA was so frowned upon from its inception, while now it seems the general consensus of the AZ community is that the players should unionize now. Shouldn't they have unionized BEFORE the fact? If so, isn't Allen completely correct in his assessment?

The fundamental lesson to be learned here, besides KT's crookedness and ability to drag down good people with him (see Deno Andrews), is that proactive beats reactive any day. I'm fairly certain that KT would not have accepted UPA sanctioning, or any other union-type activity. I'm also fairly certain that had the issue been forced, there wouldn't have been many players sitting out - they all were blinded by the promise of huge money (and who can blame them for that?). Unfortunately, it's not all KT's fault he took advantage of the players - he wouldn't have been able to take advantage of them if they hadn't let him.

-djb
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Firstly, to clarify, I have not lost respect for Allen Hopkins at all. He is, IMO one of the best to play this game and has survived quite well past his playing days. Mr, Hokins has promoted and continues to promote some fine events.

It is my thought that we disagree on the subject of KT"s character. So, we disagree, big deal.

I get rather tired of the "players got what they asked for" mentality. When KT stood in pulpit and started ranting about $15-28 million, the whold world was all ears and few questions were asked by anyoone. All, were blinded by the light. He even kept the HOFers quiet by their inclusion which I thought was a nice touch.

So much now, seemingly is history. It though, is not too late for the players to make astatement and UNITE. It is time that they send their message for the whole world to hear. Rodney Mooris's words, "I will not settle", has fired up many and they have stood up and grabbed their weapons. They can, demand respect.
 
Fart sniffer said:
There have been several attempts at a Union for pool players, at the UPA finals Johnny Archer was trying to rally people up. Just because it hasn't been done successfully doesn't mean it hasn't been tried............it's been tried many times.

There is one factor that screws it up every time though, a pool player wants to run the show. Do you think ball players run the NBA? No, they let people who have the knowledge do that job. Pool players should do just that, play pool and have someone with good organization skills run a union.
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I'm not too sure I understand your statement about running the show. A union's job isn't to run the show, it's to take care of the interests of its members. UAW doesn't tell Ford, GM, etc., how to run its business, but it will make damn sure its members continue to get raises and benefits (which of course leads to the argument against unions - how they affect the bottom line of the business).

In other sports, such as the NFLPA and MLBPA, delegates are elected to represent each team (although almost all players are members of their respective unions). In the case of the NFLPA, Gene Upshaw is a former player. In the case of the MLBPA, Donald Fehr is not a former player. As long as the head of the organization can understand the needs of its players and has the ability to negotiate with the necessary entities, status as a player/ex-player shouldn't matter.

-djb
 
I wouldn't say it's ever "too late" as far as putting together an organization to protect the player's interest. Yeah, it might be "late" but certainly not "TOO late".

I imagine there are some players out there who have the organizational skills and the sense needed to make such an organization a success. It's just a matter of identifying those folks, and whether those folks are inclined to take on such a task.

IMHO it would HAVE to be a player (or players) doing this - as I don't think there's enough money involved to be able to hire an outsider to take on the job. Pro sports unions and the UAW have been mentioned - there's exponentially more money involved in those areas than there ever will be in pool. It'll take someone with passion for pool and the players, someone willing to do the job for minimal compensation, to pull it off.

As far as having "leverage" - I'd think that if such an organization made, as part of the participation agreement, the requirement that events escrow the prize funds (and provide proof of that), otherwise the organization's member players will not participate - and that the member players abide by that decision - then such an organization could well succeed. No (or fewer, at least) pro players at an event = less attractive for sponsors/dealers/etc = less participation in said event by said sponsors/dealers/etc. The big trick in that case will be to get the member players to act together, "for the greater good" so to speak, and not go all maverick and attend events that the organization asked them not to attend.
 
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What I meant is that let's say Johnny Archer is proposing a union, he makes the rules, he does the planning, he coordinates the logistics..........basically he tries to do everything. This may or may not be the case, but from the unions I have seen it's been a type of "for the players, by the players" type of thing.

Not all pool players have the time or knowledge to properly run a union or even set one up, which is something that I believe is the reason they never come to fruition. It's a great idea, very difficult to execute properly.
 
ironman said:
Firstly, to clarify, I have not lost respect for Allen Hopkins at all. He is, IMO one of the best to play this game and has survived quite well past his playing days. Mr, Hokins has promoted and continues to promote some fine events.

It is my thought that we disagree on the subject of KT"s character. So, we disagree, big deal.

I get rather tired of the "players got what they asked for" mentality. When KT stood in pulpit and started ranting about $15-28 million, the whold world was all ears and few questions were asked by anyoone. All, were blinded by the light. He even kept the HOFers quiet by their inclusion which I thought was a nice touch.

So much now, seemingly is history. It though, is not too late for the players to make astatement and UNITE. It is time that they send their message for the whole world to hear. Rodney Mooris's words, "I will not settle", has fired up many and they have stood up and grabbed their weapons. They can, demand respect.
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I'm not saying that the players got what they asked for, and neither is Allen Hopkins. All I'm saying is that before laying blame elsewhere, look within. A con man or a hustler can only be successful if the target is ignorant of the con or the hustle. Pool players have plenty of experience being screwed in the past, so they weren't ignorant of the possibilities.

-djb
 
Fart sniffer said:
What I meant is that let's say Johnny Archer is proposing a union, he makes the rules, he does the planning, he coordinates the logistics..........basically he tries to do everything. This may or may not be the case, but from the unions I have seen it's been a type of "for the players, by the players" type of thing.

Not all pool players have the time or knowledge to properly run a union or even set one up, which is something that I believe is the reason they never come to fruition. It's a great idea, very difficult to execute properly.
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No doubt it's difficult, but who else is going to do it besides a player? Pool players can't keep waiting for their fairy godmother to show up....

-djb
 
Well, look at the guy who is talking for Allen Hopkins right now, is he a player? We all have friends and pro players have more friends than the average person. Mike Sigel got Kevin T. (I never spell his name right) to put together the highest payouts in history, is KT a player?

The right people just haven't gotten together, maybe we should publicly put together a format for a union so that we can understand what's needed and who can fill what positions. Never mind talking, it's time for action don't you think?
 
DoomCue said:
I'm curious to see if anyone actually disagrees with Allen Hopkins's statement, "It's not all his [Kevin Trudeau's] fault anyways, if the players were organized - we would not be in this situation" and why.

Charlie Williams started the UPA a few years ago in direct reaction to Barry Behrman's inability to come up with the prize fund at the end of one of his US Open events. One of the requirements for UPA sanctioning is to have the prize fund in escrow, thus eliminating problems such as Barry's. Charlie took (and still takes) a lot of flak for trying to start an organization to protect the players.


Doom Cue......the only problem with the above statement is that they never enforced the escrow rule. I know that it was not in effect for Brady Behrmans tournament a couple of years ago. And yes the UPA sanctioned it.............................................mike
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What's missing in this thread...

The problem with this message from Allen Hopkins is that since it was a one time post, there is no ability for Mr. Hopkins to clarify his statement or react to the scrutiny his statement has received. With all due respect to Mr. Hopkins, I think leaving an opinion blowing in the wind in this way on this forum is a mistake. What is the point in posting an opinion on an internet forum if your not going to be around to defend it?
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Mark - read my post above. He doesn't know how to setup an AZB account, and I didn't feel like explaining it. E-mail him - I'm sure he'd like to talk to you.
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So, he's computer literate enough to check his email but not set up an accoutn here? Hmmm......
 
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