Mika/Williams SBE
- Thread starter theeviltwin69
- Start date
Wow...quite a post.
If a promoter holds a tournament and adds money, ever think it might be added based on the return the promoter thinks they can make? I'm sure there are plenty of events (SBE Pro included) that anticipate a certain amount of spectator attendance. If the pros don't play the final, why should they get any money? Some finals are streamed, some streamed for free. And there are potential advertising dollars to be made on those free streams. Those advertising dollars might come from a sponsor who wants all the people watching the final to see a clip about their product. If I was a sponsor, I would be outraged if the players decided to not play. If they can make a decision to not play because it doesn't break the rules, then I as the sponsor would simply make a decision to not pay, since I doubt there were any rules about that either.
KMRUNOUT
So why don't you become a pro player and show Charlie and Mika how its done? Sounds easy right?
Your not happy with the schedules of the pros, so volunteer your services and help them with their time management issues.
All this complaining isn't changing anything.
I'm trying to have a level-headed discussion here on topic with the original post and now you're gonna throw a grade-school playground dare at me???
FWIW, I am retired. I have no intentions at becoming anything (but older
). I retired at age 49 with a full pension and medical/dental/vision insurance. I make more money per year than most professional poolplayers do and never have to get out of my recliner to do so 
.Why in the heck do you think that I would want to be a pro poolplayer?
This I can tell you, if I COMMIT to do something in life, I completely fulfill that commitment!!!
Maniac (thinks you may be in the minority with your opinions with chopping/dumping)
If your not willing to take their job, they why bother complaining on how they do it. Be part of the solution or get out of the way.
I'm trying to have a level-headed discussion here on topic with the original post and now you're gonna throw a grade-school playground dare at me???
FWIW, I am retired. I have no intentions at becoming anything (but older
Why in the heck do you think that I would want to be a pro poolplayer?
This I can tell you, if I COMMIT to do something in life, I completely fulfill that commitment!!!
Maniac (thinks you may be in the minority with your opinions with chopping/dumping)
I bet you've never critized a President of the United States, or a chef in a restaurant, or one of your supervisors, or.....well, you get the picture, right???
Maniac (pullin' his dog out of this fight
)
I bet you've never critized a President of the United States, or a chef in a restaurant, or one of your supervisors, or.....well, you get the picture, right???
Maniac (pullin' his dog out of this fight
Speak up, it sounds like you have more to say. I don't bite, I type.
Seems to me that the APB did a lot of complaining re pay outs etc, pretty much everything. As long as it was doing them good.
So what have they done, except complain?
Thats what we do here, complain. We can because we see whats wrong with the situation in pool. As far as being able to do anything about it, we can't.
None of us are in any position to make a difference other than voicing an opinion.
They threatened to walkout on Barry's event (US Open 9ball) and the BCA saved Barry from the walkout. I think they gave him two months notice.
Yes, and when we voice an opinion, the APB gets on here and basically tells us that we are nothing but a bunch of uninformed goof balls that know nothing.
Amen Brother!!! Everyone always whines about why pool isn't more popular, the game is dying, blah, blah, blah.
I have loved this game since I was 12 years old and first stepped into a rec center and played 8 ball.
The problem is no one in the pro ranks can take a step back to take 2 steps forward. There is so much greed in pool that it doesn't allow the opportunity to get to the next level.
It is a damn shame because it truly is a beautiful game...
It's bad enough to screw the sponsor, but they also screw many people who donated money to make the event happen. Private donations. Several people gave 500 or 1000 to make this happen and thats what they get for it.
And people wonder why pool is in the crapper.
And people wonder why pool is in the crapper.
Dirty little not so secret
Well it finally happened on the big stage and people and players are aghast. It isn't like we didn't know that it has been happening all along. This time though, it was blatant and full of attitude. What a joke!
The question here is why everyone has put up with it for so long. It has become an ingrained "right" among many "professionals" and amateurs at all levels. It makes me sick. The question is why and how did it get this way.
I feel that it falls squarely on the event promoters. I don't know what the prize money was in the 14.1 competition but I do know that for the SBE pro event, 1st was $20,000 and 2nd was $7,000. Isn't that kind of payout ratio just asking for this kind of behavior?
Pool isn't like any other professional sport. Very few of the top pros can make a living at it. In other sports they can give a million dollars for first and a half mill for 2nd because those pros are making enough money to live. Not so with pool. With prize money so top heavy in the pro events, I think it just begs for this type of behavior. Although it's usually a secret in the back room.
Promoters seem to love to push that huge 1st place, and taking 2nd means you only get half that amount, much less if you get 3rd, half again and 4th, half again. After that it gets to be more graduated.
My first taste of this "secret" was a pro tournament in the 80's where 1st place was a guanteed $40,000. WOW!! 365 total players entered for a nominal fee of $100 held at a casino. Yep, 1st was $40,000 and 2nd was either $5000 or $7000. The scuttle was that all the "pro" players got together and made a side agreement of a different payout or how the money was to be split. I felt betrayed by the "pros" that were entered. I felt that the players had no honor. It cheapened the game and my experience. My Scandinavian roots were screaming at me.
Why did the promoter put the players into that position? They are just trying to make a living for doing something they love.
More players could make a better living and be more honorable if they got rid of the half, half, half payout and went to a more graduated scale of pay.
The 2011 US Open payout was
UNDERSTAND, I am not saying there was any skulldugery at the US Open. I am just using their payout as an example.
A total of $105,500 was paid to the top 16. Would a payout like this be so bad?
Sure, the winner isn't quite as happy, but, everyone else is AND while there still might be savers, I don't think there would be any splitting. Plus, tied for 13th nets them $1000. Sounds more equitable for me.
I also noticed they paid 96 players in a 251 player field. I was brought up on paying 25% of the field. If they would have paid to 64 places, that would have freed up an additional $16,000 to spread out from 17th to 64th.
All in all the players are the ones responsible for their actions but as you see, promoters don't help the situation. How many other sponsors are going to look at this and wonder?
The APB needs to step forward and stop this practice right now if they want future sponsors for events. They need to have harsh penalties if players are found to be splitting, even to the point of being removed from the APB and blacklisted by promoters.
What's more is that all promoters should have a entrants sign a no split statement as well as all ABP members.
I'm worded out on this. Sorry for the long post.
Well it finally happened on the big stage and people and players are aghast. It isn't like we didn't know that it has been happening all along. This time though, it was blatant and full of attitude. What a joke!
The question here is why everyone has put up with it for so long. It has become an ingrained "right" among many "professionals" and amateurs at all levels. It makes me sick. The question is why and how did it get this way.
I feel that it falls squarely on the event promoters. I don't know what the prize money was in the 14.1 competition but I do know that for the SBE pro event, 1st was $20,000 and 2nd was $7,000. Isn't that kind of payout ratio just asking for this kind of behavior?
Pool isn't like any other professional sport. Very few of the top pros can make a living at it. In other sports they can give a million dollars for first and a half mill for 2nd because those pros are making enough money to live. Not so with pool. With prize money so top heavy in the pro events, I think it just begs for this type of behavior. Although it's usually a secret in the back room.
Promoters seem to love to push that huge 1st place, and taking 2nd means you only get half that amount, much less if you get 3rd, half again and 4th, half again. After that it gets to be more graduated.
My first taste of this "secret" was a pro tournament in the 80's where 1st place was a guanteed $40,000. WOW!! 365 total players entered for a nominal fee of $100 held at a casino. Yep, 1st was $40,000 and 2nd was either $5000 or $7000. The scuttle was that all the "pro" players got together and made a side agreement of a different payout or how the money was to be split. I felt betrayed by the "pros" that were entered. I felt that the players had no honor. It cheapened the game and my experience. My Scandinavian roots were screaming at me.
Why did the promoter put the players into that position? They are just trying to make a living for doing something they love.
More players could make a better living and be more honorable if they got rid of the half, half, half payout and went to a more graduated scale of pay.
The 2011 US Open payout was
- 1st - $30,000,
- 2nd - $15,000,
- 3rd - $10,000,
- 4th - $7,500,
- 5/6th - $6,000
- 7/8th - $4,500
- 9/12th - $3,000
- 13/16th - $2,500
UNDERSTAND, I am not saying there was any skulldugery at the US Open. I am just using their payout as an example.
A total of $105,500 was paid to the top 16. Would a payout like this be so bad?
- 1st - $20000
- 2nd - $15000
- 3rd - $10000
- 4th - $8500
- 5/6th - $7000
- 7/8th - $5000
- 9/12th - $4000
- 13/16th - $3000
Sure, the winner isn't quite as happy, but, everyone else is AND while there still might be savers, I don't think there would be any splitting. Plus, tied for 13th nets them $1000. Sounds more equitable for me.
I also noticed they paid 96 players in a 251 player field. I was brought up on paying 25% of the field. If they would have paid to 64 places, that would have freed up an additional $16,000 to spread out from 17th to 64th.
All in all the players are the ones responsible for their actions but as you see, promoters don't help the situation. How many other sponsors are going to look at this and wonder?
The APB needs to step forward and stop this practice right now if they want future sponsors for events. They need to have harsh penalties if players are found to be splitting, even to the point of being removed from the APB and blacklisted by promoters.
What's more is that all promoters should have a entrants sign a no split statement as well as all ABP members.
I'm worded out on this. Sorry for the long post.
And when the superstar doesn't show, you get your ticket back in the form of either a refund or a 'raincheck'. And if you don't get any sort of compensation, I'd wager that it would be the last time you pay to see that performer.
Mmm... Then either the celebrity or their agent is spreading them too thin.
This isn't grade school, where you tell someone you "might" attend the party. This is the real world, with (supposedly) mature adults, who are smart enough not to make a doctor's appointment or a haircut the same time as a board meeting.
I'm sure the folks that made donations to the 14.1 event will be interested to watch that match.
When is this Mika/Charlie 'make-up' match that you speak of ?
Not that I expect you to "get it" since you are defending inexcusable behavior but it isn't just about the rules, it is about professionalism and respect for the fans, sponsors and the game itself
And you wonder why pool is going downhill?.. Truly clueless!
luvthisgame
Banned
chopping
If Mika chopped so he could attend another event and try to earn a living who can blame him. One of the very best in the world and a good year for them equals $100,000 before expenses.
Yesterday I watched Pro tennis yesterday where #11 ranked John Isner beat #1 ranked Djokovic to get to the finals of the BNP Paribas event. He played awesome and served up to 144 MPH!!! Unreturnable with 20 aces in the match. The man is 26 years old and has a real future why?? He earned $500,000 for getting to the finals and if he wins first place it is $1,000,000. Hell 16th made $50,000. Pool payouts are a joke.
CW does whatever he wants and never considers anybody else.
The blame goes to the tournament director , who should heve refused to pay either of them unless that went into the ring.
I have considered a local 16 player $100 invitational, with known area top amateurs playing and paying out a straight $1000 1st $500 second. What concerns me most is that the final 2 would just whack the money. The lure of this little event would be to see them play for a $500 difference. Hell they would be doing savers for 3rd/4th and defeat the whole design of the event. And this is why it has never happened.
The above post that calls for the ABP to get involved fails to recognize that Charlie Williams IS the ABP.
What is the differencebetween a pizza and a pool player?
A pizza feeds a family of 4. I wonder why?
If Mika chopped so he could attend another event and try to earn a living who can blame him. One of the very best in the world and a good year for them equals $100,000 before expenses.
Yesterday I watched Pro tennis yesterday where #11 ranked John Isner beat #1 ranked Djokovic to get to the finals of the BNP Paribas event. He played awesome and served up to 144 MPH!!! Unreturnable with 20 aces in the match. The man is 26 years old and has a real future why?? He earned $500,000 for getting to the finals and if he wins first place it is $1,000,000. Hell 16th made $50,000. Pool payouts are a joke.
CW does whatever he wants and never considers anybody else.
The blame goes to the tournament director , who should heve refused to pay either of them unless that went into the ring.
I have considered a local 16 player $100 invitational, with known area top amateurs playing and paying out a straight $1000 1st $500 second. What concerns me most is that the final 2 would just whack the money. The lure of this little event would be to see them play for a $500 difference. Hell they would be doing savers for 3rd/4th and defeat the whole design of the event. And this is why it has never happened.
The above post that calls for the ABP to get involved fails to recognize that Charlie Williams IS the ABP.
What is the differencebetween a pizza and a pool player?
A pizza feeds a family of 4. I wonder why?
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You also don't listen, you just keep banging the same drum defending two guys who screwed up
Sponsors put up money for events expecting the event to go to completion and they get exposure at every level of the event. The exposure is the return they get on their dollar.
In the 14.1 Challenge, Fury and a lot of other sponsors put up a lot of money and because of two players, they were cheated of one level of exposure. If the players wanted to chop the money, that is their business. However, the sponsors did not get the exposure that they paid for. After all, the final was supposed to be streamed and that would have given them the most possible exposure for their dollar. Are the sponsors upset? You're damn right they are and rightfully so.
For those of you who don't think it is a big thing, think of the NFL. In reality, a football season is nothing more than a big tournament. What would you think if the top two teams next year decided to chop the prize fund and not play in the Super Bowl? Do you think the fans, who supported their teams all year long would be mad? Do you think the sponsors, who paid millions of dollars for 30 seconds of exposure, in a commercial, would be mad? Do you think the NFL, as an organization, would be mad?
You're damn right they would all be mad.
This 14.1 situation is exactly the same except that the ABP hasn't done or said a damn thing about these players, which is very sad indeed.
Pool will never gain major status as long as the players and their organization have no respect for their fans and sponsors. After all, when was the last time you saw the finalists in a golf or tennis tournament chop and go home, rather than play the finals? Don't compare the prize money with these sports if your not going to hold the players to the same standards.
In the 14.1 Challenge, Fury and a lot of other sponsors put up a lot of money and because of two players, they were cheated of one level of exposure. If the players wanted to chop the money, that is their business. However, the sponsors did not get the exposure that they paid for. After all, the final was supposed to be streamed and that would have given them the most possible exposure for their dollar. Are the sponsors upset? You're damn right they are and rightfully so.
For those of you who don't think it is a big thing, think of the NFL. In reality, a football season is nothing more than a big tournament. What would you think if the top two teams next year decided to chop the prize fund and not play in the Super Bowl? Do you think the fans, who supported their teams all year long would be mad? Do you think the sponsors, who paid millions of dollars for 30 seconds of exposure, in a commercial, would be mad? Do you think the NFL, as an organization, would be mad?
You're damn right they would all be mad.
This 14.1 situation is exactly the same except that the ABP hasn't done or said a damn thing about these players, which is very sad indeed.
Pool will never gain major status as long as the players and their organization have no respect for their fans and sponsors. After all, when was the last time you saw the finalists in a golf or tennis tournament chop and go home, rather than play the finals? Don't compare the prize money with these sports if your not going to hold the players to the same standards.