$Million Dollar Shootout Turnout and Schedule

JB Cases said:
How about AZ Billiards as a community itself? One year we sent a player to the US Open? Why don't we send a player to this event?

I'm not downing the idea, but here's why:

U.S. Open
Amount staked: $1,400
Amount won by backer: $20,000


2008 Million Dollar 9 Ball
Amount staked: $6000
Amount won by backer: $10,000


You do the math. I support Allen's idea, but the risk to reward is not there without at least 30 players. I fully understand Schmidt's backer stepping out. The player would have to come in 2nd to even cover expenses ... this time, I fully support the further pursuance of this event.

I believe the key in 2009 will be long-term preparation and qualifying events.
 
Scores? Write-up?

I am out of the AZB Loop- did they complete it in 1 day?

Who is what is and where is?? :scratchhead: :fukinlost!:
 
jimmy-leggs said:
Pretty sad turn-out.:( I guess pro players dont need the money that bad.

Or don't have the money to start with, that's probably the reason why none of us run a tour. We all have great ideas but no money to back the idea, don't hate on the players just because they don't have the cash or the backers to compete in something like this.

I am broke as hell and would have played if I got the backing, just like I play every big event I can when I do get the backing. It's also a matter of ROI (return on investment) if you are ARE being backed, you would have to be in the top 16 to have even a slight chance in that stacked field.
 
JB Cases said:
In fact - the Million Dollar Shootout already has more players than the first WSOP World Championship.

Seriously? I can't believe you think that this event is even a close comparison to the WSOP and to compare the two games is an insult to pool players. In a poker tournament, there's a reason why people say "all you need is a chip and a chair". Poker takes strategy and luck, but not nearly the level of skill and practice that is necessary to compete at a professional level in pool.

What Chris Moneymaker taught the world is that any schmuck can walk into the WSOP and win it all. Do you think its realistic that an APA league player could go into a tournament against a bunch of players like Thorsten, Shane and Johnny and win? Sure, there are lots of road players out there that could probably take down some pros, but if you think regular schmoes are going to throw down $5k for this event like they do for the WSOP, well lets just say that I want some of what you're smokin'.

Don't get me wrong, its nice and all that Hopkins is trying to get this off the ground and build some interest for pool but lets not go crazy. It is what it is, a nice little event with some very decent payouts (comparatively speaking anyway).
 
poolsnark said:
Seriously? I can't believe you think that this event is even a close comparison to the WSOP and to compare the two games is an insult to pool players.


I believe what John is saying is that the first few WSOP didn't have very many players in it, we all have to start somewhere. And now look at how popular the WSOP is, we can only hope this event follows the poker example and gains popularity to bring pool to a new level.
 
iba7467 said:
I'm not downing the idea, but here's why:

U.S. Open
Amount staked: $1,400
Amount won by backer: $20,000


2008 Million Dollar 9 Ball
Amount staked: $6000
Amount won by backer: $10,000


You do the math. I support Allen's idea, but the risk to reward is not there without at least 30 players. I fully understand Schmidt's backer stepping out. The player would have to come in 2nd to even cover expenses ... this time, I fully support the further pursuance of this event.

I believe the key in 2009 will be long-term preparation and qualifying events.

You might not have been around when we as a community sent John "Rude Dog" Morton to the US Open. We didn't "back" him. We all donated money as a community and sent an AZB'er to the US Open.

Don betting $1400 on John Schmidt for the US Open is no brainer. What is sad is that a player of John's caliber didn't have anyone already backing him. Or maybe he did but the deal wasn't good.

Besides that, in case you haven't noticed I am not AT ALL talking about this year's event. I am speaking about NEXT YEAR's event.

BUT, IF I were to talk about the John Schmidt issue and your math here is how I see it. #1 they are THERE so they might as well try to win something. #2 John's backer is getting odds on the money since he is guaranteed to get at least $1000 back. #3 if John's backer doesn't have some kind of agreement that they split profit then they shouldn't be doing business together - and with such an agreement John is probably at least even odds to come out profitable and IF he should WIN the whole thing then the backer makes 200%, actually more than that because there would have been another 10 dimes in the prize fund. I find the backer in this scenario to be completely spineless in light of my math. Ok well maybe that's a little harsh but still - your horse is the US Open Champion and you have a weak heart???? What kind of backer is that? Maybe next year he will want to put John in when there is 200 players and John will say no thanks.
 
Fart sniffer said:
Or don't have the money to start with, that's probably the reason why none of us run a tour. We all have great ideas but no money to back the idea, don't hate on the players just because they don't have the cash or the backers to compete in something like this.

I am broke as hell and would have played if I got the backing, just like I play every big event I can when I do get the backing. It's also a matter of ROI (return on investment) if you are ARE being backed, you would have to be in the top 16 to have even a slight chance in that stacked field.
I'm not hating on the players.I just dont understand how someone can't come up with 5,000 measly dollars,whether from sponsors,backers or their own money,Thats all.
 
jimmy-leggs said:
I'm not hating on the players.I just dont understand how someone can't come up with 5,000 measly dollars,whether from sponsors,backers or their own money,Thats all.

Measly? Hmmm, I guess we have different ideas on how much $5k is, I am just an average earner (actually below average right now) and below average saver.
 
poolsnark said:
Seriously? I can't believe you think that this event is even a close comparison to the WSOP and to compare the two games is an insult to pool players. In a poker tournament, there's a reason why people say "all you need is a chip and a chair". Poker takes strategy and luck, but not nearly the level of skill and practice that is necessary to compete at a professional level in pool.

What Chris Moneymaker taught the world is that any schmuck can walk into the WSOP and win it all. Do you think its realistic that an APA league player could go into a tournament against a bunch of players like Thorsten, Shane and Johnny and win? Sure, there are lots of road players out there that could probably take down some pros, but if you think regular schmoes are going to throw down $5k for this event like they do for the WSOP, well lets just say that I want some of what you're smokin'.

Don't get me wrong, its nice and all that Hopkins is trying to get this off the ground and build some interest for pool but lets not go crazy. It is what it is, a nice little event with some very decent payouts (comparatively speaking anyway).


You can't handle what I am "smokin" - it's called hope. Some ****ing people would rather be negative all their life and bring up a million reasons why something WON'T work. I am glad people like Einstein, Edison, Marconi, Tesla, and Allen Hopkins could care less about people like that.

And yeah I think some "regular" schmoes will throw in 5k to play. Who the hell is Evan Broxmeyer and what has he won? Exactly nothing. I beat Evan Broxmeyer with a Fury Jump Break cue one year for two hours until he quit. Yet there he is in a field of 11 champions mixing it up.

But beyond that we are talking about a worldwide effort and many smaller - as in NO FINANCIAL PAIN - tournaments that feed into the larger one. Do I think that with a year to fill the field that we can't get 200 players? Well if we can't then pool really is THAT pathetic. Are there 200 players who want to play in such a tournament? Easily. Are there 10,000 players who would take a shot at it in weekly installments for $30 a shot? Hopefully.

How many weekly tournaments are currently played out around the USA alone? At least 50 - or about 1 per state. 50x50 is 2500. 2500 * $200 per tournament/per week going to the tournament entries is $500,000 for the prize fund. 50 tournaments x 20 players = 1000 players per week going for the brass ring. That's 52,000 players in one year trying to get to the Million Dollar Shootout. Plenty enough to send 100 of them. And this is all conservative speculation.

NO ONE is talking about the skill comparison. Moneymaker however wasn't just some "schmuck" off the street - he honed his skills through online poker and cash games around his area. And if poker is really so much about luck only then why do the top players remain at the top? I am the LAST person who would dismiss the incredible skill it takes to play pool at the top level. Do I think that beyond the known top 100 pool players in the world that there are thousands more who aren't very far off that skill level? I know that this is a fact. I know dozens of players personally who have day jobs but can play just under pro speed. And there are thousands more who might get there if they put in more time - which something like trying to qualify for a million dollar tournament would probably push them to do.

So no Betty Railbeater isn't going to plunk down $5000 to get in the main event. But she might donate to cause by trying her hand at several $20 qualifiers. Who knows a benoevolent sponsor might put up $5000 and have a ten dollar c-player only tournament for $10 a person. There are MANY MANY MANY ways that this can be a success.

Let's in fact go completely crazy and say **** begging for money from uninterested sponsors. Let's build something interesting and then they will show up - JUST LIKE POKER DID!
 
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Fart sniffer said:
Measly? Hmmm, I guess we have different ideas on how much $5k is, I am just an average earner (actually below average right now) and below average saver.
$5000 is not alot considering what they could come away with for taking that chance.
 
jimmy-leggs said:
$5000 is not alot considering what they could come away with for taking that chance.


True, but $5k for going into a blind tournament is a lot to ask for. Sure there are big names behind it and a good format but it's not a tried and true formula and you DON'T know what you could come away with. Hopefully it will spark from here it would be great for the game and could be just what we need.
 
jimmy-leggs said:
$5000 is not alot considering what they could come away with for taking that chance.

If I had the 5k, I'd be there. But, like most other players, I do not.

The players are not going to come away with much, short term. This event is a long term investment. Taking a chance at elevating the current standards of professional play. Is that what you mean?
 
Not trying to knock a start up venture like this, It would be great for this to succeed and grow into something huge...

I just don't understand the 5-12th payout??? Why???

Actually with only 12 players I am not even sure why there is a 4th.

If you are going to pay back 1K to the last place person...why not just lower the entry 1k for everyone. (I don't get it)

It seems the ROI would have looked better if the $18 was given to the first place player and leave the 2nd and 3rd as is.

$38k for first

$5K entry = 7:1 on the money is at a least a bit more attractive than 3:1

These guys are all some of the best in the world...but there is really no way any of them can think they are a lock to win this.
 
poolsnark said:
Seriously? I can't believe you think that this event is even a close comparison to the WSOP and to compare the two games is an insult to pool players. In a poker tournament, there's a reason why people say "all you need is a chip and a chair". Poker takes strategy and luck, but not nearly the level of skill and practice that is necessary to compete at a professional level in pool.

What Chris Moneymaker taught the world is that any schmuck can walk into the WSOP and win it all. Do you think its realistic that an APA league player could go into a tournament against a bunch of players like Thorsten, Shane and Johnny and win? Sure, there are lots of road players out there that could probably take down some pros, but if you think regular schmoes are going to throw down $5k for this event like they do for the WSOP, well lets just say that I want some of what you're smokin'.

Don't get me wrong, its nice and all that Hopkins is trying to get this off the ground and build some interest for pool but lets not go crazy. It is what it is, a nice little event with some very decent payouts (comparatively speaking anyway).


thats a great point Moneymaker created modern poker along with the internet(automatic sattlights). If there are enough qualifers and such there would be more turnout, Thats the problem with pool is there are 50 guys who can play and the rest of us try. I didnt realize just how bad I played until I played Archer when he was warming up for a match. We have both been playing about the same length of time, are the same height, drink Mountain Dew et but there is nothing I can ever do to be competitive with him in pool, much the same in bodybuilding, no matter how much/many roids you use it you dont have good genitics you cant compete, you can make the best of what you have and thats it! You cant train/practice in what God left out.
 
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