And a very pleasant 9 months it has been ! :thumbup:....9 more would be just peachy !
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Minnesota Fats!
- Thread starter richiebalto
- Start date
And a very pleasant 9 months it has been ! :thumbup:....9 more would be just peachy !
I listened to Ronnie Allen's stories.
Part 3 is when he met Ritchie Florence and some of their travels until they met up with Fats at the end.
Ronnie was a great story teller thats a fer sure. Injects a certain amount of humor that keeps you chuckling.
Part 3 is when he met Ritchie Florence and some of their travels until they met up with Fats at the end.
Ronnie was a great story teller thats a fer sure. Injects a certain amount of humor that keeps you chuckling.
Underestimating,belittling the skill level of other pool players is a cultural trait of many pool players.
In 1961 world One -pocket championship " The Hustler`s Jamboree", Fats was placed THIRD. First went to "connecticut Johny" Vives and the second place went to "cowboy" Jimmy Moore.
SHORT STOPS, BOTTOM TIER PROS & MIDDLE TIER PROS dont get the third place in Pro events.
Minnesota Fats a Short stop ? U Guys have to start respecting the skills of others.
In 1961 world One -pocket championship " The Hustler`s Jamboree", Fats was placed THIRD. First went to "connecticut Johny" Vives and the second place went to "cowboy" Jimmy Moore.
SHORT STOPS, BOTTOM TIER PROS & MIDDLE TIER PROS dont get the third place in Pro events.
Minnesota Fats a Short stop ? U Guys have to start respecting the skills of others.
Evelyn said Fats played his best pool from 1941 to 51....
For the record (and I knew Fat's damn well), the man could play! He was what we might call today a low level A player. No question the top players could give him a small spot, but not much. His best games were Banks (Very strong, solid A speed), One Pocket (moved good and banked great) and Three Cushions (deceptively strong). I watched him beat Eddie Robins (who denies the match took place) in Detroit when Eddie was the rising young star of Three Cushion billiards. It was a Race to 50 for $500 and Fats trailed all the way until the end, when he ran eight and out from 49-42! The man had HEART!
He also trimmed Richie Florence for a telephone number getting 8-7 at One Hole in Johnston City. They played $300 a game (big money then) and Fats beat Richie for two to three thousand a day (they didn't play every day) over a period of two weeks. I saw parts of it and Fats looked like the favorite to me. In fact during the time I was around Fats, every time I heard about him being in action, he took it down. And that is the bottom line after all, who won the money. That's how we kept score back then!
San Jose Dick is another story, He was a solid A player, one of the few who could hold his own against Ronnie, who was the greatest in my book. Dick would have had to give Fats 8-7 imo. Of course giving Fats 8-7 was a dangerous proposition. The man shot those super hard, back-cut cross corner banks better than anyone I ever saw, including Ronnie. Like the cue ball is in front of your pocket and the object ball is on the second diamond across from you. Fats cut-banked that ball back into his pocket with regularity and played shape!
I bet that even made tricky Dicky a little wide eyed!
Dick is right, Fats had that gift for gab that made him that much tougher to beat. Ronnie also had that same gift, where he could totally distract his opponent. By the way, Ronnie never bragged about his game (or his speed). It was bad for business. He was no dummy! If you asked Ronnie he always rated everyone else higher than where they should have been. Ronnie, like Fats, was triple smart when it came to matching up.
He also trimmed Richie Florence for a telephone number getting 8-7 at One Hole in Johnston City. They played $300 a game (big money then) and Fats beat Richie for two to three thousand a day (they didn't play every day) over a period of two weeks. I saw parts of it and Fats looked like the favorite to me. In fact during the time I was around Fats, every time I heard about him being in action, he took it down. And that is the bottom line after all, who won the money. That's how we kept score back then!
San Jose Dick is another story, He was a solid A player, one of the few who could hold his own against Ronnie, who was the greatest in my book. Dick would have had to give Fats 8-7 imo. Of course giving Fats 8-7 was a dangerous proposition. The man shot those super hard, back-cut cross corner banks better than anyone I ever saw, including Ronnie. Like the cue ball is in front of your pocket and the object ball is on the second diamond across from you. Fats cut-banked that ball back into his pocket with regularity and played shape!
I bet that even made tricky Dicky a little wide eyed!
Dick is right, Fats had that gift for gab that made him that much tougher to beat. Ronnie also had that same gift, where he could totally distract his opponent. By the way, Ronnie never bragged about his game (or his speed). It was bad for business. He was no dummy! If you asked Ronnie he always rated everyone else higher than where they should have been. Ronnie, like Fats, was triple smart when it came to matching up.
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Not many pictures of tournament players lists with that name on it.
http://www.onepocket.org/JanscoHOF.htm
http://www.onepocket.org/JanscoHOF.htm
For the record (and I knew Fat's damn well), the man could play! He was what we might call today a low level A player. No question the top players could give him a small spot, but not much. His best games were Banks (Very strong, solid A speed), One Pocket (moved good and banked great) and Three Cushions (deceptively strong). I watched him beat Eddie Robins (who denies the match took place) in Detroit when Eddie was the rising young star of Three Cushion billiards. It was a Race to 50 for $500 and Fats trailed all the way until the end, when he ran eight and out from 49-42! The man had HEART!
He also trimmed Richie Florence for a telephone number getting 8-7 at One Hole in Johnston City. They played $300 a game (big money then) and Fats beat Richie for two to three thousand a day (they didn't play every day) over a period of two weeks. I saw parts of it and Fats looked like the favorite to me. In fact during the time I was around Fats, every time I heard about him being in action, he took it down. And that is the bottom line after all, who won the money. That's how we kept score back then!
San Jose Dick is another story, He was a solid A player, one of the few who could hold his own against Ronnie, who was the greatest in my book. Dick would have had to give Fats 8-7 imo. Of course giving Fats 8-7 was a dangerous proposition. The man shot those super hard, back-cut cross corner banks better than anyone I ever saw, including Ronnie. Like the cue ball is in front of your pocket and the object ball is on the second diamond across from you. Fats cut-banked that ball back into his pocket with regularity and played shape!
I bet that even made tricky Dicky a little wide eyed!
Dick is right, Fats had that gift for gab that made him that much tougher to beat. Ronnie also had that same gift, where he could totally distract his opponent. By the way, Ronnie never bragged about his game (or his speed). It was bad for business. He was no dummy! If you asked Ronnie he always rated everyone else higher than where they should have been. Ronnie, like Fats, was triple smart when it came to matching up.
Jay,
Question for you, that I bet you can answer !..Due to the short field (only 12 players) for the first Jansco one pocket tournament, do you know if they played a 'round robin' format, rather than double elimination, like all future tournaments were ?..I should know, but I simply can't recall..I knew Vevis won it, but I couldn't remember any of the other finisher's !
This picture of the board that 'alstl' just posted, is too early in the tournament to tell for sure !
http://www.onepocket.org/JanscoHOF.htm
Thanks,
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Well, you got to figure he couldnt have been a bum to get as recognised as he did.
The times i have seen him play in the Mosconi matches and the youtube matches of the old timers games, it looked, to me at least, that the guy wasnt taking it serious at all.
He was more interested in telling stories and breaking balls than anything else, lol.
He never took a long time studying a shot and he stroked them what, 2-3 times and bang, let it fly. I dont think the man ever shyed away from a bank shot either.
Now what he played like when the cash was on the line, i couldnt tell you, im sure he wasnt as haphazard as he was in the taped games and studied things out a bit more.
Then again, i could be wrong.
But common sense tells me the man could hold his own or he wouldnt be as well known as he was.
Its just a shame that there isnt more on video of him because the man makes me laugh every time i watch something on him.
"If i want a trophy, i'll go out and buy one" !
The times i have seen him play in the Mosconi matches and the youtube matches of the old timers games, it looked, to me at least, that the guy wasnt taking it serious at all.
He was more interested in telling stories and breaking balls than anything else, lol.
He never took a long time studying a shot and he stroked them what, 2-3 times and bang, let it fly. I dont think the man ever shyed away from a bank shot either.
Now what he played like when the cash was on the line, i couldnt tell you, im sure he wasnt as haphazard as he was in the taped games and studied things out a bit more.
Then again, i could be wrong.
But common sense tells me the man could hold his own or he wouldnt be as well known as he was.
Its just a shame that there isnt more on video of him because the man makes me laugh every time i watch something on him.
"If i want a trophy, i'll go out and buy one" !
Why do idiots like you need to come into every thread and start a pissing contest. Who gives a crap..His post on this thread didn't in any way sound like he was the foremost authority. your the only one here making yourself to be the god of fatty info. This has been an interesting thread...please don't turn it into another bs az argument
Jay you are the only place I have ever heard of San Jose duck besides 1pocket.org... Are you being nice or was he about half as good as he says he was so is worth mention?????
When i read that story (is Fats fit) and heard of all the great player that Fats played with very little weight, well that tells me Fats played just as good are better then those great players.
Even knows Fats was being spotted playing most of those players back then, it makes you wonder did Fats need any spot at all.
Like Fats said about himself he was triple smart, why play a man even if he is willing to spot you something.
So i got to believe now That Fats probably play just as good as the best players of his era or better, just because Fats was being spotted most of the time does not mean he needed that spot to win!
I really Believe THe Fat Man was triple smart and always played with the best of it, while never showing just how great he really was!
Why play a great player even if you can get a spot out of him, this was Fats thinking game.
Thats dam strong to play pool 0ver 50 years and still play better then people really knew!
Unlike others on this forum, I saw Minnesota Fats play only twice and never spoke a word with the man.
The first time was an exhibition match in a string of pool rooms. It was DREADFUL! The man looked like an unmade bed. He would simply not take the game seriously. Anyone who saw those exhibitions would have come away convinced that he could have spotted Fats the world, played with a broomstick, and robbed him.
The only other time I saw Fats play was at a Joe Burns Dayton tournament in the after hours matchups. St. Louie Louie was at his peak. I, a mere youth, was sitting in the stands with a couple of veterans. Louie played a long session and looked just about done in. Of course he had trampled his opponent, but he was on his last legs. He could barely stand. One of the veterans turned to the other and said, "Now watch. It's time for Fats to appear." And, as if by magic, he did. Louie never stood a chance. Fats was all over him. The scales, as they say, fell from my eyes. That was how Fats played top players.
Try this for a system of hustling. Act like the biggest fool in the world and brag about your pool game all over while never appearing to be able to make a ball. Everyone will now rate you a 3 on the 1 to 10 scale. Your potential opponents will offer you the same spot that they would give a 5, and think they have a mortal lock. Now play like a 7.
You can live off that! I'd love to get that kind of spread at the race track. It's like getting sixteen-to-one on a horse that should be eight-to-one. It doesn't matter that there may be a legitimate two-to-one horse in the race. You're getting a gigantic overlay. Retire. Move to the south of France. Buy a condo in every city you like!
The first time was an exhibition match in a string of pool rooms. It was DREADFUL! The man looked like an unmade bed. He would simply not take the game seriously. Anyone who saw those exhibitions would have come away convinced that he could have spotted Fats the world, played with a broomstick, and robbed him.
The only other time I saw Fats play was at a Joe Burns Dayton tournament in the after hours matchups. St. Louie Louie was at his peak. I, a mere youth, was sitting in the stands with a couple of veterans. Louie played a long session and looked just about done in. Of course he had trampled his opponent, but he was on his last legs. He could barely stand. One of the veterans turned to the other and said, "Now watch. It's time for Fats to appear." And, as if by magic, he did. Louie never stood a chance. Fats was all over him. The scales, as they say, fell from my eyes. That was how Fats played top players.
Try this for a system of hustling. Act like the biggest fool in the world and brag about your pool game all over while never appearing to be able to make a ball. Everyone will now rate you a 3 on the 1 to 10 scale. Your potential opponents will offer you the same spot that they would give a 5, and think they have a mortal lock. Now play like a 7.
You can live off that! I'd love to get that kind of spread at the race track. It's like getting sixteen-to-one on a horse that should be eight-to-one. It doesn't matter that there may be a legitimate two-to-one horse in the race. You're getting a gigantic overlay. Retire. Move to the south of France. Buy a condo in every city you like!
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3301&highlight=is+fats+a+fit
:yikes:
I dunno Freddy. That's pretty strong.
:rotflmao1:
:yikes:
I dunno Freddy. That's pretty strong.
:rotflmao1:
I saw San Jose Dick give my brother Calvin a good whoppin on the 4 x 8 playing 9-ball back in 1973, then they played snooker and broke even, and Calvin had just beat the Canadian snooker champion the week before, so yes Dick played all games pretty well.
David Harcrow
Haven't read all the comments but the bold red is what I say about him. But IMO, (although I only watched him play in early 70's - mid 80's?? in Carbondale) he was one heck of a full rack bank and 1pocket player. 3Cushion too.
One thing that I feel was deceptive in determining his skill was his demeanor at the table. Not talking about his mouth. Talking about his manner of shooting. Stance was very tall. Fingertip bridge. Quick shooting. Fast pace/rhythm. Looked like he wasn't trying and plain lucky but of course you can't be that lucky an entire set and then then the next and next and sets a month later.
I'm no expert on this subject by far, but,......
I do know you have to be extra-ordinarily good to be able to "hustle the hustlers."
If memory serves me, Fats has said a few times, "It's all about the ca-aaaaaaaash!"
