Mitch Ellerman Ripped Off at Galveston Tournament

[punter]

Let's see - a pool cue weighs maybe 19 ounces and can be easily transported (maybe that's why these raffles are so popular at many pool tournaments). A room full furniture weighs maybe 1,000 pounds and is not so easily transported. It really doesn't take a genius to tell the difference.

Much as you would like to believe otherwise, you're losing this debate Lou. Weren't you the same guy who was all over Joey about the Galveston event? Now you want to defend these shysters who screwed Mitch. Nice flip flop Lou.

That's really using that logic Jay, Lou is flip flopping because he doesn't agree with something that happened in a raffle. I believe his questions were about the tournament and payoffs.

It looks like to me, you are losing this argument, and just by saying over and over that you are winning doesn't change anything.

Again this thread is lacking on any facts as to what actually happened. I guess it is just a thread to bash the Galveston tourney because they didn't listen to all of Jay's advice, and TAR wasn't hired to stream (which is the only reason Watchez is commenting).

 

[alstl]

I dont make other people's problems mine, I have enough of my own. It appears to me that Mitch dosent seem to care as much as everyone else does here. Its a shame for sure. Unless he is asking for advice-just let it be, Mitch is a big boy he can handle his biz just fine, if he cant then seeking advice is the right move, I seek advice all the time when I know that I cant seem to solve the issue at hand. I havent read this thread, I hope Mitch gets whats his-if not he should ask for help and then we should help him, but until then we should mind our own business.



Here is a true story:

The son of a famous pool player used to raffel cars at the county fair every year, he would have less than 10K in it and awalys sold more than $20,000 in tickets. He would offer the winner a cash settelment of around 5-6K sometimes a bit more, because he didnt want the hastle of buying another heap of chit and fixing it up for the next raffel 100 miles away, He used 15 year old sport cars with fresh paint so it looked great. The winners would usually opt for the cash, he would tell them that the car would be hard to sell or might need expensive repair work someday. The winners didnt want that headache, and he told them they had to pay taxes(true), but if they chose the cash option he would pay them in cash on the spot in cash-and nobody would know. He would usually get them to agree they buy a $20 ticket and pocket $6,000 tax free. The raffeler would be in a world of hurt if he got caught. He liked it when real old people would win or tweeker types cause he knew they werent cops and hopdfully not snich him out. If a clean cut 28 year old guy won he would just give him the keys and the sales tax paperwork and pink slip. He had his bases covered. He never got caught, he stopped when he got into another gig-real estate is what he has been doing forthe last 15 years.

That was the whole gig, He wou ld get the space for free at the fair grounds because it was a raffel for a charitable cause, he did give the charity 15%(which is about the lowest you can go and not get in trouble), The tickets has serial numbers on them so he could calculate how many he sold and count the $$$. He hired real pretty girls, not super hott as they might intimidate some guys. He had it all figured out.

I learned all this from him as he wanted me to get in the biz with him, I said "Why me?" he said simple we can now cover LA and Vegas. Swap out cars so there is the illusion of new cars at each drawing. I didnt like it, what he was doing was clearly illegal and for a few thousand I didnt want to get introuble. Raffels are a gaff 90% of the time. The door prize at the Moose Club is legit, even Chruch raffels can be rigged without the church knowing that it is. I wouldnt ever do a raffel.

The cue raffels here AZB are cool and those raffels are among friends, but the car raffels are a gaff.


I hope Mitch gets whats comming, he is a good guy-I dont know him very well but I can tell he is good with me.

That's a scam worthy of the flim flam man.

I was at a turkey shoot when the Mother of the kid who reached his hand in the jar to pull out the winning ticket won the $500 dollar prize two weeks in a row. Needless to say I didn't buy any more raffle tickets from them.

 

[sfleinen]

I'm arriving late to the party here, but I have a similar story. :grin-square:

My friend's daughter got on Wheel of Fortune and won about $30,000-plus in prizes.

The interesting thing is that, yes, she did have to pay taxes on it, but she had to pay taxes on what Wheel of Fortune said the prizes were worth.

She won a trip to Istanbul or Yugoslavia -- (I can't remember) -- and they said the prize was worth $13,000.

If she had booked this trip herself, she could have gotten it for about $4,000.

That said, she had to pay taxes on $13,000 for that trip.

California also made her pay taxes, in addition to Federal. However, though she paid California, she got a lawyer who got California to give her a refund on what she paid them in taxes. She lives in Maryland, and the lawyer said she didn't have to pay California taxes.

Today, the IRS Tax Code is over 70,000 pages. 1913 is when the IRS Tax Code was created, and it was 400 pages.

Jenny:

Not to commandeer this thread, but try that today with the state of California, and you won't even get your refund money. Arny will send you an "IOU" note instead, because California's BROKE!

(I know this because I changed employers last year, and the employer I was leaving decided to send me a "parting W2" -- but from California, instead of NY, because the last project I'd worked was remotely supporting -- via VPN -- a project where the onsite work was in a data center in downtown L.A. MY CPA warned me I wasn't going to get the refund money, but rather an "IOU" note from the State of California. He was right. What a way to flip departing employees the bird! )

-Sean

 

[watchez]

Again this thread is lacking on any facts as to what actually happened. I guess it is just a thread to bash the Galveston tourney because they didn't listen to all of Jay's advice, and TAR wasn't hired to stream (which is the only reason Watchez is commenting).

Actually Punter - I have an issue with the gaffle and the payouts promised and not delivered.

Once again, try reading the whole thread since you are so keen on wanting facts.

p.s. Jay knows more about running a tournament and what is right/wrong than the promoters of Galveston or the people that advised them ever will.

 

[punter]

Actually Punter - I have an issue with the gaffle and the payouts promised and not delivered.

Once again, try reading the whole thread since you are so keen on wanting facts.

What facts do you know Watchez?

Did Mitch talk to anyone about moving the furniture?

What amount of time passed before the furniture was moved?

Who was running the raffle?

Has he been told that he will not get anything?

ETC., etc., etc. No facts are presented here and the OP is not inclined to provide any, instead he slanders everyone involved with the tournament over this matter and presents no details of what happened. Maybe Mitch was done wrong, but you can't tell it by reading this thread (which I have read).

What facts do you know about Watchez, or are you just taking this opportunity to join in on downing this tournament without any real knowledge of what happened?

 

[watchez]

What facts do you know Watchez?

Did Mitch talk to anyone about moving the furniture?

What amount of time passed before the furniture was moved?

Who was running the raffle?

Has he been told that he will not get anything?

ETC., etc., etc. No facts are presented here and the OP is not inclined to provide any, instead he slanders everyone involved with the tournament over this matter and presents no details of what happened. Maybe Mitch was done wrong, but you can't tell it by reading this thread (which I have read).

What facts do you know about Watchez, or are you just taking this opportunity to join in on downing this tournament without any real knowledge of what happened?

Facts about what I stated INCLUDING info on the short payout,etc, etc, etc. Read this thread or have someone read it to you, then get back to me.

 

[punter]

Facts about what I stated INCLUDING info on the short payout,etc, etc, etc. Read this thread or have someone read it to you, then get back to me.

That's what I thought, you don't know anything about it.

 

[bobbyrone]

I spoke to Mitch and he called Bobby Rone, Mr. Rone says he has not seen the furniture in 2 months, that someone picked it up. Mitch is getting screwed over on this. Plain and simple when you run a raffle you let the people buying tickets know they are responsible to transport, have to pay taxes and have to be present or not to win, plain and simple pure BS.

I will have more info as it is available to me of where it was picked up from and by who.

First: I would like to say that was the first time i talk to mitch about furniture, and this is what he said. That he was having personal problems
and had no way to get the furniture at that time. Now i do not know when he was offered a 1000.00 but i believe at that time i would have took the money. I think everybody on AZ should understand that you caint leave furniture anywhere for a week or more without at least a phone call to explain whats going on and i think mitch understands this, why he is letting this go this long is beyond me, he is not posting anything, I am sure mitch is a great guy BUT he letting " FAST LENNY " talk about something he knows nothing about.. We at "TAYLOR ROAD DID ALL WE COULD DO TO MAKE ALL WHO WERE THERE HAPPY"
There is some things that need to work out with the event.. BUT NOT WITH THIS. Mitch needs to take blame for something that was totaly in his control, he drop the ball nobody else..

 

[punter]

First: I would like to say that was the first time i talk to mitch about furniture, and this is what he said. That he was having personal problems
and had no way to get the furniture at that time. Now i do not know when he was offered a 1000.00 but i believe at that time i would have took the money. I think everybody on AZ should understand that you caint leave furniture anywhere for a week or more without at least a phone call to explain whats going on and i think mitch understands this, why he is letting this go this long is beyond me, he is not posting anything, I am sure mitch is a great guy BUT he letting " FAST LENNY " talk about something he knows nothing about.. We at "TAYLOR ROAD DID ALL WE COULD DO TO MAKE ALL WHO WERE THERE HAPPY"
There is some things that need to work out with the event.. BUT NOT WITH THIS. Mitch needs to take blame for something that was totaly in his control, he drop the ball nobody else..

So you are saying that the first contact Mitch made, concerning the furniture, was some 3+ months after the event was over.

Thanks for joining AZ, Mr. Rone, and defending yourself against what are IMO some baseless accusations against you and the Galveston Classic. I think Lenny owes you an apology for starting this thread when he presented no facts, probably because he didn't really have any. Others were all too happy to pile on, while having nothing to add except their own personal bitterness, for who knows what reason.

Personally, I enjoyed the day I spent attending the Galveston Classic, and being able to see World class pool so close to home. I've heard that Taylor Road lost money, and I hear that they may not try it again. If true, I'm sorry to hear that, but would like to congratulate you for putting on a world class pool event here in the U.S.. Thank you.

 

[Fast Lenny]

So you are saying that the first contact Mitch made, concerning the furniture, was some 3+ months after the event was over.

Thanks for joining AZ, Mr. Rone, and defending yourself against what are IMO some baseless accusations against you and the Galveston Classic. I think Lenny owes you an apology for starting this thread when he presented no facts, probably because he didn't really have any. Others were all too happy to pile on, while having nothing to add except their own personal bitterness, for who knows what reason.

Personally, I enjoyed the day I spent attending the Galveston Classic, and being able to see World class pool so close to home. I've heard that Taylor Road lost money, and I hear that they may not try it again. If true, I'm sorry to hear that, but would like to congratulate you for putting on a world class pool event here in the U.S.. Thank you.

I have no bitterness towards anyone to do with the Galveston event and had high hopes for it so labeling me as a Galveston hater or whatever you want to call it is not true. I did not have all the facts and neither did Mitch about the furniture, I even posted I would let people know what I find out as I go. As for an apology, I am so sorry Mr. Rone and the trolls for bringing this matter of Mitch not getting his prize to the attention of people and for trying to help a good guy out.

I will say this that Mitch is having a rough time right now and alot of stuff going on that is more pressing, I will not mention personal stuff but along with that he has had to move also. As for Mr. Rone, call Mitch and set something up. He was told you have not seen the furniture in 2 months, where is it?, who was it sold or gave to? What are you willing to offer Mitch?

Mitch might have dropped the ball not promptly getting in touch with you but it was my understanding he did not know who to get in touch with. He did not drop the ball first though as he was under the assumption that he would not pay to have it delivered.

I think this should have been stated in this case as its not a cue or something that you can take with you or ship cheaply. I know some agree that it should be shipped to Mitch and others think it is his responsibility, either way hopefully it gets resolved.

Someone has the furniture and either payed for it or got it free, but regardless it was his and he should have been notified he had X amount of time or it would be forfeited or given a cash deal, sorry taking $1000 for an $8000 set does not seem reasonable to me nor did it to him.

 

[JoeyA]

First: I would like to say that was the first time i talk to mitch about furniture, and this is what he said. That he was having personal problems
and had no way to get the furniture at that time. Now i do not know when he was offered a 1000.00 but i believe at that time i would have took the money. I think everybody on AZ should understand that you caint leave furniture anywhere for a week or more without at least a phone call to explain whats going on and i think mitch understands this, why he is letting this go this long is beyond me, he is not posting anything, I am sure mitch is a great guy BUT he letting " FAST LENNY " talk about something he knows nothing about.. We at "TAYLOR ROAD DID ALL WE COULD DO TO MAKE ALL WHO WERE THERE HAPPY"
There is some things that need to work out with the event.. BUT NOT WITH THIS. Mitch needs to take blame for something that was totaly in his control, he drop the ball nobody else..

Congratulations on an air-clearing first post and welcome to the Main Forum Bobby. Glad to see you posting.

In this case, some well intentioned people were trying to help Mitch get the best deal they could help him get, which is what buddies do. You can't fault them for that. :sorry:

I know a lot of pool players were very happy to attend the Galveston World Classic, as was I. There seemed to be a lot of spectators that enjoyed it as well. The numbers of viewers on the Live Stream has been unmatched before or since. Live-Streaming is still in its infancy and has plenty room for improvement.

Many of us look forward to seeing Taylor Road Production continue in the world of pool promotion.

In spite of some rough spots, your first effort was SPECTACULAR.

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

JoeyA

 

[gulfportdoc]

...We at "TAYLOR ROAD DID ALL WE COULD DO TO MAKE ALL WHO WERE THERE HAPPY"
There is some things that need to work out with the event...

I'm hoping that, by your comments, you're looking to have another event in 2010. I've been to many pool tournaments, and yours was the single best venue I've ever attended. Everyone I spoke with at the event really liked it. I'd guess that a second event would attract at least 50% more people than attended this year.

Presumably you figured to lose money on the first event, just as the DCC did in their first events. Are you at liberty to say if you are considering another event next year?

Very best regards,

Art "Doc" Tripp
Gulfport, Miss.

 

[jay helfert]

First: I would like to say that was the first time i talk to mitch about furniture, and this is what he said. That he was having personal problems
and had no way to get the furniture at that time. Now i do not know when he was offered a 1000.00 but i believe at that time i would have took the money. I think everybody on AZ should understand that you caint leave furniture anywhere for a week or more without at least a phone call to explain whats going on and i think mitch understands this, why he is letting this go this long is beyond me, he is not posting anything, I am sure mitch is a great guy BUT he letting " FAST LENNY " talk about something he knows nothing about.. We at "TAYLOR ROAD DID ALL WE COULD DO TO MAKE ALL WHO WERE THERE HAPPY"
There is some things that need to work out with the event.. BUT NOT WITH THIS. Mitch needs to take blame for something that was totaly in his control, he drop the ball nobody else..

Sorry Bobby, this explanation doesn't fly with me. You had Mitch's phone number. It was right there on the raffle ticket. He did "win" the furniture didn't he? Also, Mitch was not told he was responsible for having the furniture shipped until after the raffle. That was a nice punch line. I think you knew there was a good chance that the winner would have trouble getting the furniture shipped and might just say the hell with it. That didn't stop you from selling lots of raffle tickets though.

And you say someone offered Mitch $1,000 for the furniture. How generous! Seeing how it was only worth $8,000! By the way, I just got off the phone with Mitch (I have his number too and had no trouble reaching him). He is a very unhappy camper about this whole deal. He feels like he got screwed. I wonder why. I guess it's all his fault for buying that damn raffle ticket. How stupid of him.

What I will tell you sir is that Mitch Ellerman is a fine young man who I'm glad to know. He has some real issues in his life right now and the last thing he has time for is a hassle like this. He does not have the wherewithal to fight you for what is rightfully his. So you booked a winner on this one. I think you know exactly what happened to that furniture and are a willing accomplice in all this. There is more to this story then what you're telling us on here.

I actually liked your tournament, but based on what happened to Mitch I won't be coming back if you have it for the next ten years!

 

[punter]

Sorry Bobby, this explanation doesn't fly with me. You had Mitch's phone number. It was right there on the raffle ticket. He did "win" the furniture didn't he? Also, Mitch was not told he was responsible for having the furniture shipped until after the raffle. That was a nice punch line. I think you knew there was a good chance that the winner would have trouble getting the furniture shipped and might just say the hell with it. That didn't stop you from selling lots of raffle tickets though.

And you say someone offered Mitch $1,000 for the furniture. How generous! Seeing how it was only worth $8,000! By the way, I just got off the phone with Mitch (I have his number too and had no trouble reaching him). He is a very unhappy camper about this whole deal. He feels like he got screwed. I wonder why. I guess it's all his fault for buying that damn raffle ticket. How stupid of him.

What I will tell you sir is that Mitch Ellerman is a fine young man who I'm glad to know. He has some real issues in his life right now and the last thing he has time for is a hassle like this. He does not have the wherewithal to fight you for what is rightfully his. So you booked a winner on this one. I think you know exactly what happened to that furniture and are a willing accomplice in all this. There is more to this story then what you're telling us on here.

I actually liked your tournament, but based on what happened to Mitch I won't be coming back if you have it for the next ten years!

Maybe he had the tournament for the express purpose of cheating someone in a furniture raffle. That's using great logic and reasoning.

If you know more, why not tell it Jay? Instead of your blustering BS about Jay Helfert is the pre-eminent authority on everything. Look up Caveat Emptor. NO INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD ASSUME SHIPPING TO BE INCLUDED IN SUCH A RAFFLE, AS SEVERAL PEOPLE HAD SAID OVER AND OVER.

Your book may have some good stories in it, but based on your continual slander, I wouldn't want a copy if you were giving them away.

Your comments here make as much sense as saying you intentionally cheated people in your one-pocket challenge at DCC, when you switched tables mid-tourney. I think you are a loose cannon who thinks he can bully everyone just because you tell a few stories.

 

[tucson9ball]

So you are saying that the first contact Mitch made, concerning the furniture, was some 3+ months after the event was over.

Thanks for joining AZ, Mr. Rone, and defending yourself against what are IMO some baseless accusations against you and the Galveston Classic. I think Lenny owes you an apology for starting this thread when he presented no facts, probably because he didn't really have any. Others were all too happy to pile on, while having nothing to add except their own personal bitterness, for who knows what reason.

Personally, I enjoyed the day I spent attending the Galveston Classic, and being able to see World class pool so close to home. I've heard that Taylor Road lost money, and I hear that they may not try it again. If true, I'm sorry to hear that, but would like to congratulate you for putting on a world class pool event here in the U.S.. Thank you.

Let's get back to topic here. The OP said nothing about how the tournament was run. Simply that Mitch won a raffle and received nothing in return.
Punter, the way you post, you act as if you were there and heard the whole story as Mitch bought his raffle ticket. Do you yourself know all the facts?
Let's get back on topic. Mr. Rone, is Mitch going to get something for his raffle money?
The last time I was in Vegas, a GCV was raffled and it was common knowledge that somebody would pay 5k to the winner of the raffle. The cost of the GCV was about 9k, so this would be a lil' over half of the winnings. Maybe an offer of 4k or so would get this problem resolved?

 

[punter]

Let's get back to topic here. The OP said nothing about how the tournament was run. Simply that Mitch won a raffle and received nothing in return.
Punter, the way you post, you act as if you were there and heard the whole story as Mitch bought his raffle ticket. Do you yourself know all the facts?
Let's get back on topic. Mr. Rone, is Mitch going to get something for his raffle money?
The last time I was in Vegas, a GCV was raffled and it was common knowledge that somebody would pay 5k to the winner of the raffle. The cost of the GCV was about 9k, so this would be a lil' over half of the winnings. Maybe an offer of 4k or so would get this problem resolved?

I'm not the one making accusations here Tball, Mr. Rone has been accused of being a thief, if you read all the posts. The only facts presented here say that Mitch won and no one heard from him about it for over 3 months. The venue wanted the furniture moved so it was moved and stored. I hope Mitch gets the furniture, but I also think it was his responsibility to make arrangements to move the furniture in a timely manner. I also think that accusations like JH is making need proof, of which he has presented none.

 

[allprobilliards]

there were alot of shortcomings of the event. but i do believe they also spent alot of money. they jus overextended themselves

 

[tucson9ball]

I'm not the one making accusations here Tball, Mr. Rone has been accused of being a thief, if you read all the posts. The only facts presented here say that Mitch won and no one heard from him about it for over 3 months. The venue wanted the furniture moved so it was moved and stored. I hope Mitch gets the furniture, but I also think it was his responsibility to make arrangements to move the furniture in a timely manner. I also think that accusations like JH is making need proof, of which he has presented none.

LOL, unfortunately I have read all the posts. There is tons of ramblings about the tournament and how it was run. Most say it was a great tourney. I was not there, I'm sure it was a really nice tourney. I hope it keeps going in the future. I was merely pointing out, the OP was just trying to get Mitch his winnings.
Since Mr. Rone has got a user account now, maybe he could chime in on this?

 

[stuckart]

I'm not the one making accusations here Tball, Mr. Rone has been accused of being a thief, if you read all the posts. The only facts presented here say that Mitch won and no one heard from him about it for over 3 months. The venue wanted the furniture moved so it was moved and stored. I hope Mitch gets the furniture, but I also think it was his responsibility to make arrangements to move the furniture in a timely manner. I also think that accusations like JH is making need proof, of which he has presented none.

It's obvious that you really have no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea why Rone can post one post that is filled with holes and you jump on it like it's the bible. And there are pages and pages of people stating correct information. Jay H stated that he just got off the phone with Mitch. But you seem to think, for whatever reason, that Mitch didn't try and contact anyone about his $8000 prize for 3 months. Do you remember "facts" being posted many pages ago that he was offered $1000 compensation for the furniture? I'm just guessing here, but that might show that he had made enough calls and follow up calls to get someone to budge.

The truth is, Mitch made several calls to try and get information about his furniture. He was told many different things and got the run around over and over again.

Your factless based argument that Mitch or ANY INTELLIGENT PERSON should know they are responsible for delivery is just BS. And just proves Jay's statement even more that the people running the Raffle scammed everyone. EVERYONE knows that a Huge Majority of the participants in the tournament were going to be flying in from all ends of the world. And I know this question was asked before, but I'll ask it again. If Ashley Furniture was a sponsor of the event and offered up a Furniture Set that is sold all over the country, why in the world did the Raffle Operators not say to Ashley Furniture that there is a 95% chance that someone from outside of Galveston is going to win the furniture, so can the winner just pick up their winnings from a local Ashley store?

Personally I hope all the personal things that are going on with Mitch and his family start to turn around in the near future!

 

[punter]

It's obvious that you really have no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea why Rone can post one post that is filled with holes and you jump on it like it's the bible. And there are pages and pages of people stating correct information. Jay H stated that he just got off the phone with Mitch. But you seem to think, for whatever reason, that Mitch didn't try and contact anyone about his $8000 prize for 3 months. Do you remember "facts" being posted many pages ago that he was offered $1000 compensation for the furniture? I'm just guessing here, but that might show that he had made enough calls and follow up calls to get someone to budge.

The truth is, Mitch made several calls to try and get information about his furniture. He was told many different things and got the run around over and over again.

Your factless based argument that Mitch or ANY INTELLIGENT PERSON should know they are responsible for delivery is just BS. And just proves Jay's statement even more that the people running the Raffle scammed everyone. EVERYONE knows that a Huge Majority of the participants in the tournament were going to be flying in from all ends of the world. And I know this question was asked before, but I'll ask it again. If Ashley Furniture was a sponsor of the event and offered up a Furniture Set that is sold all over the country, why in the world did the Raffle Operators not say to Ashley Furniture that there is a 95% chance that someone from outside of Galveston is going to win the furniture, so can the winner just pick up their winnings from a local Ashley store?

Personally I hope all the personal things that are going on with Mitch and his family start to turn around in the near future!

Delivery is not automatically included in a raffle, no matter how many times you say it. These guys hold a tournament and lose several $100K and some seem to think they did it so they could set up a scam for an $8000 set of furniture. That's what is BS. If you win something, go talk to someone and find out if you need to make arrangements to ship it. If Mitch did that in Galveston, no one has said so in this thread. What is sad is the self-appointed Commissioner of Pool wants to berate people who made an honest effort to run a big tournament in the U.S. with a world class field.