Mosconi's 526 record...Who could break it???

It's very difficult to compare players from different eras, but FWIW here are my top five straight-pool players of all time, in chronological order:

Ralph Greenleaf
Willie Mosconi
Irving Crane
Steve Mizerak
Mike Sigel

Sigel has the distinction of being among the top five all time in both of the categories that have defined championship tournament pool for the last century--straight pool and nine ball.

My top five nine ball players of all time, in no particular order:

Luther Lassiter
Mike Sigel
Earl Strickland
Johnny Archer
Efren Reyes

I'm not sure if this gentleman has been mentioned in the all-around category, but I want to remind everyone of Harold Worst, a champion in more than a couple disciplines from the Johnston City days whose career and life were all too brief.
 
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PoolBum said:
It's very difficult to compare players from different eras, but FWIW here are my top five straight-pool players of all time, in chronological order:

Ralph Greenleaf
Willie Mosconi
Irving Crane
Steve Mizerak
Mike Sigel

Sigel has the distinction of being among the top five all time in both of the categories that have defined championship tournament pool for the last century--straight pool and nine ball.

My top five nine ball players of all time, in no particular order:

Luther Lassiter
Mike Sigel
Earl Strickland
Johnny Archer
Efren Reyes

I'm not sure if this gentleman has been mentioned in the all-around category, but I want to remind everyone of Harold Worst, a champion in more than a couple disciplines from the Johnston City days whose career and life were all too brief.
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I'd pick the same five in straight pool, and if you changed Reyes to Buddy Hall, we'd agree on nine ball.

Harold Worst was a fine all-around player, but an even better all-around player was Nick Varner, who captured the world championship in each of nine ball, eight ball, straight pool, and one pocket. I'm not sure any other player has done that.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The 4x8 part is in the affidavit made at the time of the run. A link to the Smithsonian's on-line copy of the affidavit is item 22 on http://www.sfbilliards.com/misc.htm

The "did not happen" part might be based on some rumors that during the run at least one ball bounced from a pocket but was considered good. You need to weigh rumor against affidavit, I suppose. It is unfortunate that no one in the crowd had a video camera.
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Mr. Jewett:

This thread has sure veered off to the left a bit. I think it's great what you and some others are trying to do to keep straight alive. I'm in a straight pool league run by Jim Parker at the Illinois Billiards Club and another run by John Lavin at Red Shoes Billiards and we're doing our best to keep it alive, even though I am a virtual nephyte, barely and rarely able to run 30 balls. I've copied your announcement about the DCC and will disseminate it at my leagues and wherever else I can.

Your link to the affidavit was pretty cool. Do you know where I might get a copy suitabel for framing. I'd like to get one for Frank "Sailor" Stellman and maybe one for me, too.
 
sjm said:
I'd pick the same five in straight pool, and if you changed Reyes to Buddy Hall, we'd agree on nine ball.

Harold Worst was a fine all-around player, but an even better all-around player was Nick Varner, who captured the world championship in each of nine ball, eight ball, straight pool, and one pocket. I'm not sure any other player has done that.
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Excellent points, both of them. I think I overlooked Buddy somehow but I agree that he belongs on the short list of all-time great nine ballers. And Nick is definitely underrated, and a great all-around player, from my home state of Kentucky (as was Buddy I believe).
 
dmgwalsh said:
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Your link to the affidavit was pretty cool. Do you know where I might get a copy suitabel for framing. I'd like to get one for Frank "Sailor" Stellman and maybe one for me, too.
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I assume that the Smithsonian has it. Try contacting them.
 
Found this on the web. It's part of a longer interview Earl Strickland did. It's a little long, but it fits in with the current discussions about greatest player and the 526 ball run. I thought people might enjoy it:

AZB: Billiards Digest is naming their choices for the top 50 players of the century. Who do you think is the greatest player to ever play the game?

Earl: Well, I think that without a doubt, Willie Mosconi should get that. Because I think Mosconi was the greatest ambassador that the game has ever had until now. I think now, there are going to become some better ambassadors because the game is growing now. And there is more demand and more people are playing. I think pool has a chance for somebody like Willie Mosconi. But coming from that era and being as good as he was. Of course there are more players now. I've got to identify everything. There are more players now and I think that it's harder to win tournaments now. There is no question about it. But as far as his appearance, his integrity, his character, his professionalism, his ability to play.

His high run of 526 balls. I've been trying to beat that and it's virtually impossible. I've gotten to 408 and I felt like somebody had been hitting me with a club in the back and legs all night long. After I ran 408 balls, I could barely walk. People don't realize how intense it is. To run 408 balls is phenomenal and it is very very demanding on your body. You're very tired after that, believe me. And to run 526 balls, takes a phenomenal person.

He was not considered an athlete, but he was not in bad condition either. He played a little golf, I don't think he did a lot of running or playing tennis or stuff like I do. But I'm in a different era than he was too. I've been exposed to these things more than he was. But to be the man he was and to have the accomplishments he had, dealing with what little we had, is phenomenal. If he doesn't get the number 1 pick, I would just be furious. So terribly disappointed that I wouldn't know what to say.
 
PoolBum said:
Excellent points, both of them. I think I overlooked Buddy somehow but I agree that he belongs on the short list of all-time great nine ballers. And Nick is definitely underrated, and a great all-around player, from my home state of Kentucky (as was Buddy I believe).
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Any discussion of the greatest all around pool players must include a young , competitive Allen Hopkins, especially if the games are being played on Tight Pockets. JMHO! Fred McCann
 
hitting below the belt

Grady said:
Excuse, you lowlife piece of junkie excrement? You're a fine pair, you and miss prim and proper JAM, only I know what and who she is. I repeat, you oughta be ashamed of yourself. I'm gonna give you action but there's gonna some big changes. We're not playing in front of a partial audience. In fact there's not going to be anyone except you, me, the referee and a 48 pack of beer for you.
You are going to have to be able to play 48 hours or until somebody wins. Since you're so great I guess it's all right if I pick the equipment, place and game?
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I personally have known Keith for 30 plus years, since Linbrook days and such. I'm not a friend of his but I'am a fan, yes. I was also a fan of yours until this post. I know you could give a rats ass but that was really uncalled for. We all have done things in the past that we might be ashamed of and hopefully bettered ourselves because of them. Integrity,character and respect are not traits we are born with and have to be learned in life.
That was hitting below the belt IMHO and I'm not going to speak for other people here but you certainly have one less fan here.

no-sho
 
PoolBum said:
Excellent points, both of them. I think I overlooked Buddy somehow but I agree that he belongs on the short list of all-time great nine ballers. And Nick is definitely underrated, and a great all-around player, from my home state of Kentucky (as was Buddy I believe).
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Buddy is from Metropolis ILLINOIS.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume that the Smithsonian has it. Try contacting them.
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Yeah, that's what I thought, too. But I couldn't find it on their site and thought you might know for sure. I'll get back to looking.
 
mjantti said:
Wow ! Running 361 in 1967 and running 333 in 2000 ? Now, who has runs over 300 in a period of 33 years ? :cool:
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from what i saw of johnny's game in his later years, it was very unique compared to other players, and i would have to call his game artistic.he got closer to the OB than anyone i have ever seen play, and he massaged the balls better than anyone i've seen play. this kind of game doesn't diminish over the years,,,i think it gets better because it is totally dependent on knowledge
 
bruin70 said:
from what i saw of johnny's game in his later years, it was very unique compared to other players, and i would have to call his game artistic.he got closer to the OB than anyone i have ever seen play, and he massaged the balls better than anyone i've seen play. this kind of game doesn't diminish over the years,,,i think it gets better because it is totally dependent on knowledge
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Yeah, Johnny's knowledge allowed him to play great straight pool even when he was in his sixties. Nonetheless, let's not misrepresent things here. New York City's top two straight poolers, Tony Robles and Dan Barouty would have been big favorites over Johnny even if they gave him a 50 ball spot in a race to 150.
 
sjm said:
Yeah, Johnny's knowledge allowed him to play great straight pool even when he was in his sixties. Nonetheless, let's not misrepresent things here. New York City's top two straight poolers, Tony Robles and Dan Barouty would have been big favorites over Johnny even if they gave him a 50 ball spot in a race to 150.
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i wasn't making who was better comparisons, sjm,,,,only old ervolino vs young ervolino, and what it took to do that.

getting back to the run of the topic at hand, what i find most interesting about this thread, is that with arguably pool's and most storied record, there is not only controversy, and mixed reflections on what actually happened, but outright denials that a TRUE 526 actually occured.

once again, this reflects on the slipshod manner with which the game is documented even by its most knowledgeable participants. a game that has always survived in the shadows and corners of the darkest and dankest of pool venues. how befitting!

so with all the stories about all the high runs, grady is going to have to excuse me when i say it doesn't matter whether the runs were accomplished in practice, tournaments, gambling, in front of 3 witnesses or 100, seen in parts or from beginning to end. it seems lack of credibility will always follow.

in its purest form,,,a 600 ball run is a 600 ball run, and it doesn't matter what the conditions. if eufemia ran 6xx, but could only run 20 in other official venues, then it doesn't mean he was a 600ball runner,,,only that he couldn't play in competition.
 
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bruin70 said:
...what i find most interesting about this thread, is that with arguably pool's and most storied record, there is not only controversy, and mixed reflections on what actually happened, but outright denials that a TRUE 526 actually occured.....once again, this reflects on the slipshod manner with which the game is documented even by its most knowledgeable participants.
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Excellent point. I completely agree.
 
PersonallyI feel there is a difference between any high run in practice as oposed to match conditions. The list should be seperated to reflet this but it doesn't mean that either high run doesnt count or didnt happen.

In snooker generally a players highest break is his one in competition. But if you look in the Guiness book of records it references a highest break of 151 as the best ever even though that was done in practice and not competition. Ive heard people have done 155 which is the theoretical highest but I think it just hasnt been witnessed properly? Incidently is mosconis run in the Guiness book anyone?
 
Voodoo Daddy said:
I wanna say it was 2 years ago, Johnny Ervolino ran 350+ at the ripe age of 68!!! In Ny somewhere...someone help out?
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He won Alaska 8-ball, 9-ball state championship and ran over 300 several times while in Alaska. Joe B
 
Joe Pickens said:
It was in Springfield, Ohio and I think the name of the place was East Side Billiards.
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The name of the room and the location are listed in the affidavit that was made at the time of the run. A link to the affidavit is about item 20 on:

http://www.sfbilliards.com/misc.htm

You can actually see a list there of people who were present for the run. The owner of the room and Willie's opponent are indicated on the affidavit.
 
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