Most racks ever run on a Valley bar box

AtLarge said:
In the finals of the 2015 US Open 8-Ball Championship (won 11-9 by Orcollo), neither player had a second inning in any of the 20 games. 15 of the 20 games were won by the player at the table after the break -- 11 on B&R's and 4 by the non-breaker following dry breaks. The breaker failed to run out 5 times after successful breaks (2 misses and 3 fouls), and the non-breaker ran out after each of those misses or fouls.

For all 17 streamed matches in that event, 87% (203 of 233) of the games ended in one inning -- 52% won by the breaker (B&R) and 36% won by the non-breaker. 75% (174 of 233) of the games were run out by the player who was at the table following the break.

Orcollo's B&R percentage was 60% in the finals (6 of 10) and 50% (21 of 42) for all 6 of his matches that were shown on the stream. Dechaine appeared on stream in only 2 matches. He broke and ran 5 of 10 in the finals and 3 of 8 in his other streamed match.

As to dry breaks in the finals, Orcollo had 1 and Dechaine had 3.
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Could you give the percentage of break and runs after a successful break where breaker made a ball and did not foul?

My contention is that the hardest part for the top pros in putting together a big package is making a ball and not scratching 20 times in a row. They get out on pretty much any layout when having the opening shot after the break as shown by 87% percent of games won.

What are the odds of someone who breaks and runs 50% of running 15 racks? 20 racks?
 
realkingcobra said:
Looks like the best players in the world today would need a spot to play all those in the past....that have claims to running 15, 18, 20+ racks in a row....yep, pool is on the down hill slide for sure....even the Pro's today can't match up to the players everyone claims that can run racks from Sunday through Saturday without missing a ball:rolleyes:
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You are the master table mechanic. Would you say it is easier to make a ball on the break playing on a Valley bar table with 5" pockets or a Diamond bar table with 4.5" pockets?

I don't think players of today need a spot from players in the past. They simply play on different equipment as the standard.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
You are the master table mechanic. Would you say it is easier to make a ball on the break playing on a Valley bar table with 5" pockets or a Diamond bar table with 4.5" pockets?

I don't think players of today need a spot from players in the past. They simply play on different equipment as the standard.
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You need to measure those Valley corner pockets again, when you do....let me know what you come up with.
 
jasonlaus said:
You're more than welcome to bet Searing can't still run 2 racks of 8 ball - you can bust me.

There's millions of people that have played 10, 20, 30 40, 50 years that have never even run 3 racks - doesn't mean other people can't do it.

For example, how many pool table mechanics have been working for years and are still hacks? Yet, you, Mark, Ernesto have risin to the top way beyond what they are capable of.
Jason
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Let me know when you're willing to bet before he breaks the first rack,....that he's going to break and run at least 2 racks in a row;)
 
realkingcobra said:
You need to measure those Valley corner pockets again, when you do....let me know what you come up with.
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I don't even know a place that has a Valley bar table. You are the expert. What are the correct measurements for Valley corner pockets? Are you telling me they are the same size as Diamond corner pockets?
 
A couple of years ago, I thought I read on AZ Mike Sigel ran 31 racks in a row in a tournament. Someone came along and knocked it because it was on a barbox.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
I don't even know a place that has a Valley bar table. You are the expert. What are the correct measurements for Valley corner pockets? Are you telling me they are the same size as Diamond corner pockets?
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Well, you said Valley had 5" corner pockets...right? Where did you get that information?
 
realkingcobra said:
Well, you said Valley had 5" corner pockets...right? Where did you get that information?
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I believe someone stated that in this thread. Does it matter? You can tell me if I am wrong. I know they are more than 4.5".

You could just answer the question because you work on tables for a living. I am an accountant......
 
nine_ball6970 said:
I believe someone stated that in this thread. Does it matter? You can tell me if I am wrong. I know they are more than 4.5".

You could just answer the question because you work on tables for a living. I am an accountant......
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Well....I believe I already stated what size stock Valley corner pockets measure in this thread, if you continue reading you may come across the answer.
 
realkingcobra said:
Well....I believe I already stated what size stock Valley corner pockets measure in this thread, if you continue reading you may come across the answer.
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You win. I couldn't find a post by you stating what size Valley corner pockets are. Tired of the games. Either answer the question or don't.

If the pockets are bigger than 4.5" then it should be easier to make a ball on the break and the break is going to stop packages for pros more often than not playing barbox 8 ball. AtLarge stated that 87% of games were won by the player with the first shot after the break.
 
Back in the day there was a lot more action on bar tables. Almost all action and tournaments were winner break. Players had a lot more opportunities to string racks.
Also, stringing racks isn't really the point in tournaments, especially today. If you face a 40% shot with a good safety available you might play the safe. If you're trying to string racks you'll play the shot.
It didn't take long for Earl to run 11 racks for the million and he took a lot of shots he might have passed on. If there was a big bounty out there for running 25 racks of 8 ball on a bar table, on unedited video, someone would do it pretty quick. Probably within a month.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
Could you give the percentage of break and runs after a successful break where breaker made a ball and did not foul?

My contention is that the hardest part for the top pros in putting together a big package is making a ball and not scratching 20 times in a row. They get out on pretty much any layout when having the opening shot after the break as shown by 87% percent of games won. ...
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For the 17 streamed matches (233 games) in the 2015 US Open 8-Ball Championship, the number of successful breaks (made at least one ball and did not foul) was 157. 120 of these (76%) were run out by the breaker (B&R's).
 
AtLarge said:
For the 17 streamed matches (233 games) in the 2015 US Open 8-Ball Championship, the number of successful breaks (made at least one ball and did not foul) was 157. 120 of these (76%) were run out by the breaker (B&R's).
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So that is a 51.5% BnR. Correct me if I am wrong but they use the CSI rules which is open table after the break?

I guess BnRs aren't so easy after all, even when you add the extra simplicity of getting to pick your suit either way.
 
sixpack said:
Back in the day there was a lot more action on bar tables. Almost all action and tournaments were winner break. Players had a lot more opportunities to string racks.
Also, stringing racks isn't really the point in tournaments, especially today. If you face a 40% shot with a good safety available you might play the safe. If you're trying to string racks you'll play the shot.
It didn't take long for Earl to run 11 racks for the million and he took a lot of shots he might have passed on. If there was a big bounty out there for running 25 racks of 8 ball on a bar table, on unedited video, someone would do it pretty quick. Probably within a month.
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Earl made five (5) 9 balls on the break when he ran 11 racks. He also shot at EVERY ball. He wasn't worried about the tournament at the time...he wanted the million dollars.

When I am playing in a 9-ball ring game, I'm going for EVERYTHING. There is no such thing as playing safe. If I don't have a makeable shot, the ball are going to ROLL. My goal is to stay at the table...not to worry about the table lay for the next shooter.

You'd be surprised at how many balls can be made with blind luck on a bar table with a good SLAM.
 
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