"Mr. 625" vs. "Mr. 5-time"..??
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
For me, I'd take the 626. Though there is the chance that someone could surpass that, on the flip side, you can't take away someone's world championships (unless some Lance Armstrong level stuff happens).
I don't know if this qualifies as taking anything away, but the WPA lists only three World Championship wins by Hohmann:
2003 9-Ball
2006 Straight Pool
2013 9-Ball
Not me. Winning five WC's playing a variety of opponents(who fire back, btw) is a lot bigger deal. Running 625, ooops 626, is huge but how many swings at it did it take? Guess the winner here is 14.1 cause its been dead-as-HulaHoop for some time. Now we're all debating it.
2011,'13,'18 were Dragon tournaments. Still WC's. WPA doesn't really impress me much. He still won the tournaments.
It's like comparing apples to oranges. I always prefer the oranges.
The sanction is significant. It means that there will be major players there who will not go to the sort of venue that DP ended up in. Peter Burrows' event in 2018 (and for two or three years before that) was the premiere 14.1 event in the world.
I think winning even one sanctioned world championship is a greater feat than running 626.
The field Hohmann beat in 2006 in New Jersey was the strongest field in 14.1 in this century. All the stars in the discipline were there, not just the top Americans. Foreigners who participated, other than Hohmann, included Engert, Feijen, Souquet, Vandenberg, Immonen, Huidji See and several other capable players. I don't recall which of the Asian players were there, but I'm pretty sure Orcullo was among them. A couple of old-timers played, too, most notably Allen Hopkins. No end of people on this very forum predicted that the final would be between Hohmann and Engert, and they were right as these two superstars of the discipline ended up duking it out for the title, with Hohmann prevailing. I'd say it was the toughest 14.1 field since the early 1980's. Winning that event was insanely difficult, and to me, harder than making a world record run.
Winning two world nine ball championships in this era of nine ball is also unfathomably difficult.
The field Hohmann beat in 2006 in New Jersey was the strongest field in 14.1 in this century. All the stars in the discipline were there, not just the top Americans. Foreigners who participated, other than Hohmann, included Engert, Feijen, Souquet, Vandenberg, Immonen, Huidji See and several other capable players. I don't recall which of the Asian players were there, but I'm pretty sure Orcullo was among them. A couple of old-timers played, too, most notably Allen Hopkins. No end of people on this very forum predicted that the final would be between Hohmann and Engert, and they were right as these two superstars of the discipline ended up duking it out for the title, with Hohmann prevailing. I'd say it was the toughest 14.1 field since the early 1980's. Winning that event was insanely difficult, and to me, harder than making a world record run.
Winning two world nine ball championships in this era of nine ball is also unfathomably difficult.
Was it WPA sanctioned? If we're countin this one then Hohmann's got another seeing the 2013 version(Maryland Open) is same event. I'm not here to argue sanctioning merits. I started this to compare ONE run vs. MULTIPLE tournament wins. IMO winning multiple events against hi-level competition is tougher action. How many did Willie win? A zillion?(15 times in 16yrs. Seriously???) Way bigger than balls run. Just my $.02 on this.
I personally believe that the European 14.1 Championships features a tougher field than anything we've seen in America in a few years.
Competition achievements > exhibition achievements
Willie’s 526 was the cherry on his legendary career. John’s 626 is a better cherry and worthy of celebration and accolades. But Mosconi had a better career and maintains his legend.
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Willie’s 526 was the cherry on his legendary career. John’s 626 is a better cherry and worthy of celebration and accolades. But Mosconi had a better career and maintains his legend.
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This post speaks volumes.
John may hold the 14.1 continuous ball run (for now), but he will certainly never be known by future pool generations as a pool legend like Willie Mosconi is.
Championships are far more valuable than an exhibition continuous ball run....IMHO.
Maniac
which is harder
If you had a year and you had to either 1) run 626 or 2) win a world championship, which would you pick? They would obviously both be long shots, but which would be your best bet?
I'd go with the WC. With outstanding play, a lucky draw, and some good rolls, it is at least possible that I could get a WC thanks to the potential for my opponents making blunders. There is simply no chance I could run 626. For this reason I think the WC isn't as difficult.
But I get where sjm is coming from and am not trying to elevate JS over guys that have devoted decades of their life to actual competition and gotten the job done. Just thinking of this question from another angle.
If you had a year and you had to either 1) run 626 or 2) win a world championship, which would you pick? They would obviously both be long shots, but which would be your best bet?
I'd go with the WC. With outstanding play, a lucky draw, and some good rolls, it is at least possible that I could get a WC thanks to the potential for my opponents making blunders. There is simply no chance I could run 626. For this reason I think the WC isn't as difficult.
But I get where sjm is coming from and am not trying to elevate JS over guys that have devoted decades of their life to actual competition and gotten the job done. Just thinking of this question from another angle.
For me, Competitive sports accomplishments are Everything. Competition adds an element to sports achievement that nothing else can compare. I know that John talked about feeling the most pressure of his life running those last balls closing in on 526- but in a competitive 14.1 World Event you have that pressure on every shot, in a sense, because the person in the seat can get up and run 150 anytime- that is how all the 14.1 greats viewed the game- you did everything to keep the other guy from the table with an open shot; so to me; doing that for an entire tournament against the very best in the world is a greater accomplishment.
That's a good, well-reasoned, post.
I strongly agree that a cinderella story is more likely in the case of winning a world championship. Darryl Peach 2007 is a good example, but cinderella stories in pool's toughest event are few and far between. As you correctly note, nobody but the truly elite will ever run 626. Like you, I can't imagine it.
For a top twenty in the world pro, however, I think 626 is the better chance. With superhuman dedication, a 626 is realistic, but all the dedication in the world might not produce a world nine ball championship, because the field is silly tough and the opponents you have to beat in the final rounds are just plain scary. SVB, who has come second twice but never won, took the bronze in 2018, but to win gold, he'd have had to beat defending world champion Carlo Biado and then beat Josh Filler in the final race to seventeen. He wasn't up to the first task, so he never got his shot at Filler, but it shows just how tough it is to prevail at that level of competition.
World class skills and dedication, all too often, prove insufficient ingredients for capturing a world nine ball championship. It's scary how many of the truly elite go an entire career without winning one.
... but 626, that is awfully difficult, too.
Would you rather beat a 626 ball high run or win 13 world championships in 15 years?
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I think any fan of pool/competitive sports would agree with Matt's statement. I completely agree with it.
Schmidt's career accomplishments aren't anywhere near what Mosconi achieved. However, he did eclipse one of Mosconi's achievements. And for that, he deserves an "Atta boy, good job."
True, many elite players never win a WC. But NO elite players from any era have ever had a recorded 626!
Seriously, it almost becomes a strange discussion, like who was better at their sport between Tiger and Jordan or something. Fortunately there is room in this world for more than one meaningful accomplishment.
I like how JS gave credit to other top players' potential and didn't pronounce himself the greatest, yet I think time will prove this to be a pretty serious accomplishment and one of the highlight moments from this decade.
Whichever one pays the most money.
During a TAR podcast, the guy with the microphone asked Alex P. what his favorite pool game is. Alex said, "whichever one they want to bet the most money on".