My day with Hal Houle and his aiming system

Taken right of Johnny Archer's Website....

When players write to you, asking how to aim, your pat answer is to say that you get three feet back from the shot, then you shoot parallel lines. That is all hogwash. That is not how you aim. Why don't you level with these recreational players? You use the aiming system whereby you aim the center of the cue ball at the edge of the object ball for any and all shots. You know exactly what I am talking about. We both know about placing the cue tip either left or right of cue ball center, and you know why we do that. Get honest for a change. These recreational players are no threat. Tell them the truth. - Hal Houle

I really don't know why you keep writing about my aiming system. Everybody that is listening, IT IS MY AIMING SYSTEM. I hope this would relieve some pressure that you have. Thanks, Johnny



Is Johnny claiming that this pivot system is his own aiming system? It works, but how many pros do you see pivot their cue. They must have figured out how to hide it the pivot part?
 
nineballman said:
When players write to you, asking how to aim, your pat answer is to say that you get three feet back from the shot, then you shoot parallel lines. That is all hogwash. That is not how you aim. Why don't you level with these recreational players? You use the aiming system whereby you aim the center of the cue ball at the edge of the object ball for any and all shots. You know exactly what I am talking about. We both know about placing the cue tip either left or right of cue ball center, and you know why we do that. Get honest for a change. These recreational players are no threat. Tell them the truth. - Hal Houle

I really don't know why you keep writing about my aiming system. Everybody that is listening, IT IS MY AIMING SYSTEM. I hope this would relieve some pressure that you have. Thanks, Johnny



Is Johnny claiming that this pivot system is his own aiming system? It works, but how many pros do you see pivot their cue. They must have figured out how to hide it the pivot part?
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I think Johnny is saying he uses parallel lines, matching cps.
 
It's worth merit to mention that Hal learned his system from Ralph Greenleaf.... Greenleaf was no slouch, he was only one of the best players of a whole freaking century. And Pat, if we were to dig up old Ralph, you could probably still get weight!

Kirk
 
I'd Better Dig Up Some Money TOO

The Saw said:
It's worth merit to mention that Hal learned his system from Ralph Greenleaf.... Greenleaf was no slouch, he was only one of the best players of a whole freaking century.
And Pat, if we were to dig up old Ralph, you could probably still get weight!

Kirk
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Surprisingly, I like PAT in that spot... bet it up.
Doug
( I ain'ta scared to bet ) :)
 
lfigueroa said:
There is no such thing as 'feel' unless your shooting blind folded. ;) What ever your doing to line up a shot is a system whether you believe it or not. You look at the pocket ,estimate the angle ,estimate the point of aim/contact , adjust for whatever , shoot. That's a system , no 'feel' about it. Interesting tho to think otherwise. Try a blind fold and get back to me on 'feel' shooting :)


well, OK.

You know this argument has been going on for years. Here's something I wrote on another group during a discussion about aiming when someone made pretty much the same argument you just did:

I don't know about all the other girls, but today at the pool hall I did a little experiment (which all those who advocate finding the tiniest sub-atomic particle on the object ball that their little peepers can possibly focus on to aim at, can try too):

I busted open a full rack. I selected my first shot and the position I wanted. I got down on the shot. I tried to keep my eyes unfocused and just took a couple of practice strokes.

And then I closed my eyes.

I wasn't looking at any little itsy bitsy point on the ball. (Pinkie swear.) I didn't divide the object ball up into 64 parts. Didn't look at any ball edges. Didn't even check the reflection of the lights off the object ball. (Honest.) I just closed my eyes and then, after a pause, shot the ball. To make a long story short, I ran all 15 this way without a miss. The only thing I noticed going awry was that on shots where I wanted to put a little extra english on the ball, my position tended to be off. My theory on this is that watching the shot helps with stroke speed.

Lou Figueroa
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And I have done the same thing without knowing aiming system and also using an aiming system.

The point is Lou is that you have developed the ability to get on the right line when you line up. And your mechanics are good enough so that your aren't doing anything to throw the shot off.

A lot of folks learn to play pool without consciously using a system. The have a greater ability to see the right line naturally. Some folks, like myself aren't able to consistently find the right line and a system helps us.

I played for 15 years without a system and in that time I ran five racks of nine ball twice, ran 98 balls in straight pool, ran out 5 racks of 8 ball once, and had many 8 and outs in one pocket. But I still missed a lot more than I made overall.

As I stated on RSB way back when which began a huge Flame War, was that AFTER learning Hal's system my pocketing went up by two balls. Before meeting Hal I NEVER, not once, opened a single thread discussing his aiming systems so I had no clue why he wanted to talk to me.

And frankly I thought at first that what he had to say was bunk. I didn't understand it. But after I locked into it I started making balls that previously I had lots of problems with. Balls that I had practiced shooting using the "million shot" method and still was inconsistent with.

This is my personal experience.

Then I went on to show other people the systems - c-players at best. And they then started pocketing balls that were pretty much impossible for them to do before learning the system. So to me, that showed that it worked to force the shooter to line up correctly. Now these people could certainly learn to line up on these shots by feel with enough repetition. But they had a shortcut - a different way to line up that put them on the correct line. So perhaps they could go on from there and focus more on the other aspects of the game.

The thing is that for an advanced player like yourself Lou an aiming system might not be anything you need since you already know how to find the right line. For a learning player or someone that just doesn't "get" it - like me, an aiming system is like a new world opening up and renews my love of playing.

It's funny that we have such incredible debates on this. The goal is to pocket more balls and all the teachers of these various systems are only trying to help players get better. I guess perhaps that some might feel that some of these aiming systems hinder a player's progress rather than help. I can see a debate along these lines.

Anyway, just a few thoughts on this.

John
 
Quote:Me:
Scott's a good shotmaker and (I think) generally no-nonsense about his teaching - maybe he'll show this to me next time I see him.

Scott:
Pat...With your negative attitude? You MUST be joking!
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I guess I must be.

Well, okay...but you have to "pony up" like everybody else...or you can go see Hal!
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Pony up for what? I still have no idea what you're selling.

FTR, I think Hal Houle is a GREAT man
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Well, in the absence of any concrete information about these miraculous aiming systems, I guess praising Hal will have to do. Hail Hal!

pj
chgo
 
A lot of folks learn to play pool without consciously using a system. The have a greater ability to see the right line naturally. Some folks, like myself aren't able to consistently find the right line and a system helps us.
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I think this is right on the money, but I don't think either kind of player has a "greater ability" than the other - just different.

pj
chgo
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Earth to Patrick Johnson: It's not by feel. How would you know what Hal knows if you've never spent time with him?

I'm bored posting on these aiming threads. This is the only group of people on planet earth you can tell them where to find earth shattering information and they still act like a retarded player-hater.

How about we have a shot making competition between the people that know Hal's system, and everyone else? To prove it's not by feel, everyone has to wear blinders so they can't see the pockets. I'm in. Are you in Patrick??
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Earth to Spider,

The FIRST thing you learn, if you can play at all, is
you don't need to look at the pocket to make a ball.
So let's quit with the claim that this is some kind of revelation.

FWIW - the fastest way to spot an advanced player vs an
intermediate, is how well he pockets shots where the pocket
is not in view when sighting the OB.

As to the rest
Why is no one willing to explain how you change the aim
to pocket balls that are other than half ball hits?

One final question, why do you get so angry at those who
point out the geometric errors in the system.
'player-haters' is a tipoff you are young, for the future,
characterizing yourself as more intelligent than two,
not just one, but TWO, guys that have Doctorial degrees
in Physics. Not doing a lot for your credibility.

Dale<we don't need no stinking view of the pocket>
 
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pdcue said:
Earth to Spider,

Why is no one willing to explain how you change the aim
to pocket balls that are other than half ball hits?

One final question, why do you get so angry at those who
point out the geometric errors in the system.
'player-haters' is a tipoff you are young, for the future,
characterizing yourself as more intelligent than two,
not just one, but TWO, guys that have Doctorial degrees
in Physics. Not doing a lot for your credibility.

Dale<we don't need no stinking view of the pocket>
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Dale:

I was pointing out that everyone on here bashes the system without even KNOWING the system. I'm not a Hal chearleader or anything. I use a lot of info from JoeT, Hal and others. If you're referring to that 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 aiming system... that's all bad information. No wonder your docs are throwing up the red flag.

There is nothing wrong geometrically with Hal's system. There's more to the system than half-ball aims (not hits). If your two guys with doctoral degrees in physics want to go visit Hal (and learn something about aiming)... they'd congratulate Hal for making an ingenious system.

Maybe my last post read incorrectly. I never get angry on here.. I was just making a comment. There's nothing wrong with my credibility on here - I'm not the one who is picking apart systems I don't know; therefore, I'm defending Hal a little bit on here. I used player-hater because I thought it was funny. I'm not that young - about 30. Founder of one the first virtual telemedicine companies and a founder one of the first synchronous e-learning companies in the country. I'm sure they're not doing technical assessments of DoD installations either. Don't know a lot about physics, but I'd love to gamble with your physics docs at Scrabble or Trivial Pursuit. :)

EDIT: I'm not angry, I'm cracking a joke to all of the academics out there.
 
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Let me begin with saying that if anyone wants to contact Hal I suggest u make a post and include your online handle (on AZ or BD) your name, email address, address, & phone number. If Hal wants to contact u, he will. On the papers he showed me are litterly thousands of names requesting he teach them his system. He cannot teach everyone. He is an old man (83) in poor health and has had to change his phone number because he was beseiged by folks wanting to learn his system and also by a few naysayers wanting to give him grief because they can't or won't take the time to learn. They think they know it all.

Misconceptions:

I asked Hal if he learned this system from Ralph Greenleaf. He said no, that his systems came later.

Hal has worked on aiming systems for years and has developed many. The system he taught me is his new system. He said there were some minor flaws in his older systems. Hal says this system works every time on every shot. When learning, I missed a few shots. Not because the system failed, but simply because my aim was off. Just like any shooting on the pool table, if your aim is off, u won't pocket the ball. His system does not work miricles or correct your mistakes.

There are no 1s, 2s, or 3s. There are no quarter ball, half ball etc. There is only 1 aim point which is exactly the same, every time, on every shot, straight, angle, or bank. No matter where the balls are on the table.

There is no feel, wammy, vodoo, or close your eyes and physic your self up. No let it happen and it will. There is no willing it into the pocket. No believing in yourself, although I'm sure that helps.

It is aim and execution. Simply put, aim correctly according to his system and shoot. If your aim is correct, the ball will go in. If your aim is off, it won't. The system does not fail, it is the human aim that fails. Just like shooting a gun. If your aim and execution is correct the bullet will hit the target. If your aim is off, u miss.

If anyone wants me to give Hal your name, send me an email at the address at the bottom of this post. Include your AZ or BD online handle (mine is Subsonic2u), your real name, phone number, and address. Hal can only choose a very few people to teach. Probably u would have to go to him as he is house bound with a walker. I doubt that most people could comprehend his system over the phone or on paper. It pretty much needs to b person to person. It's Hal's system, and he wants to b the teacher. I would probably screw it up anyway if I tried to teach it or explain it.

Charlie

 
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Scott Lee said:
Frank...Hal is a retired physics professor from UC/Berkeley, where he taught for IIRC 25 yrs. Recently he relocated to Walnutport, PA. He was posting here in the last month as Kildagirl. You can search his posts, and see the location. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks. ...
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Sorry, Scott, I'm pretty sure that Hal never, ever taught physics at UC Berkeley or any other university. You may want to check your "facts" here. If it would help you with your research, I can try to find my course catalogs from UC Berkeley, where I first attended classes in 1964 and last attended classes in 1984.

No physics professor would ever have adopted Hal's approach to aiming. Those professors are all too analytical and geometrical.
 
The Saw said:
It's worth merit to mention that Hal learned his system from Ralph Greenleaf.... Greenleaf was no slouch, he was only one of the best players of a whole freaking century. And Pat, if we were to dig up old Ralph, you could probably still get weight!

Kirk
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Well, no. Like the other poster, Hal told me that Greenleaf did not teach Hal any aiming systems. Hal did a lot for Greenleaf, but Ralph was unwilling or unable to give anything back. Or at least, that's what Hal said.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Sorry, Scott, I'm pretty sure that Hal never, ever taught physics at UC Berkeley or any other university. You may want to check your "facts" here. If it would help you with your research, I can try to find my course catalogs from UC Berkeley, where I first attended classes in 1964 and last attended classes in 1984.

No physics professor would ever have adopted Hal's approach to aiming. Those professors are all too analytical and geometrical.
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Agreed. He never taught physics and to the best of my knowledge, not a professor at any point in his life. He did work on jet engines at General Electric though.... LONG ago.

Hal invented the system, not Greenleaf. Actually, he calls Greenleaf an "idiot savant" because Ralph didn't know why he made any balls. He'd just go days and days without missing.
 
stokeddd, I love Houle's system's, I learned a few of them last february and they are awesome, if you ever get the chance to learn definatly take the oppurtunity.
 
Happy to hear you met Hal and the time was enjoyable and meaningful.
Hal's health isn't great but his spirits are still high. Whether or not people agree or not that these systems work doesn't really matter, I'm just grateful to have met the man and consider him a friend.

Kind regards and good shooting,
Koop - already planning his next trip to PA
 
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