My night out at the IPT event

[watchez]

Who are you, pal? Your sarcasm is weak and unfounded. Do you have a name and a legend -- like I do? Buddy Hall signed 10 cueballs for me and I made him take $50. He, like most of the others, (Efren Reyes, Jimmy Fusco, Karen Corr, Jimmy Reid, Eddie Kelly, Ronnie Allen, Donnie Anderson, Vernon Eliot, Billy Incardona, Danny Harriman, larry Price, Marshall Carpenter,Jose Parica, Grady Mathews,Scott Frost, Mark Tadd, Nick Varner, Wade Crane, Danny Di, Truman Hogue, George Rood, ) wanted to do it for free, but I insisted they take the money. How's that list? You want to knock that list? And unlike you, I played and gambled with most of the people on it.
If you went to an IPT event is there anybody there who would know you enough to say hello to you? Get your negative attention from somebody else. Guys like you have run off almost every top player from posting on the forum.

the Beard

Sorry Freddie that you need to judge your existence in life on how well you draw your ball. Typical pool player logic. I have posted my name many times - you be the pool detective & find it. I am nothing more of a C player so I hope it isn't too beneath you to talk to me.

Legend? I bet the Greek billionaire couldn't wait to put down his first class pizza to shake your hand. Too bad they didn't have the internet your entire life because all I know about Freddie the Beard is what I have read on here the last two years. Prior to that, I had never heard of you in 22 years of around pool. Here is an offer to you - let us pick any mall in Chicago. We can stand there for an hour & stop people. I will ask them if they know who Freddie the Beard is - You will ask them if they know who Watchez is. I bet $5000 that we get the same # of 'Yes' replies. Yep, you are a legend.

And my sarcasm can't be too weak & unfounded. Firstly (hope you don't mind if I use one of your made up words), you have quoted me many times so you must like what I say - and not only in this thread but in your other postings. Secondly, the IPT breeds sarcasm, along with breeding carnival workers, snake oil salesmen & kool aid drinking followers like yourself.

Lastly, you thnk I run off top players from the forum? Name one.

Oh, and by the way, since you like to stand up and thump your chest, I probably average gambling more in a day then you do in a month & more in a week than you do in a year. More in the last year than you have in your life. Does that make me a better person than you? Just checking as you seem to want to judge everyone on a scale beneath you.

They have a one-pocket tournament the weekend after the Super Bowl here in STL. Come on down. I will stake you & put you up in a hotel for Saturday night. I'll buy you in the Calcutta. We split 50/50. If you do real good - I'll probably give you even more jelly. Then I can come back on to AZ & let everyone know first hand how a legend plays and how recognizable you are in pool by the number of people that say hello to you. I mean, I have seen good players before, but not too many legends. Bring some of your autographed cue balls, you would make a killing with the one pocket crowd.

 

[ironman]

I feel that pool is heading into the right direction,but as a professional player I would be more concerned about the pace then anything else. Reason being that I would like to finally get paid instead of waiting for promises that never have come to fruition. I'm 64 years old and have been playing pool for over 50 years, 45 years as a professional.I would like to put this in the right prospective,not for me but for the players that are younger and pursuing a livlihood in pool. Maybe Trudeau will not succeed in his vision , and truthfully ,we really don't know for sure what it is,but what we should know based on his style that it probably figures to be big if successful. Now is not the right time to try to desroy what he's trying to build ,especially now that we know a little more about him as a person.Use whatever we know about him as a tool that will give us leverage and the ability to go forward with him or to choose another path with our direction. At this point we have nothing at stake and nothing to lose , but a lot to gain if he can promote our game.

B ill, I promised myself not get emotionally involved in anything KT tried to do again, but, here I am.

I respect your passion for the game and the business and your opinions and I think you know that. BUt, the man stood on a stage and recorded all his promises and lies and he even sent them oput on DVD's. When it came time to back it up, he claimed that they had forgotten the checkbook???

To this day, the man is not accountable for what he did and what he cost so many people. Some were heartbroken and crushed by this as you are well aware. Henever will .

Maybe, he can do something for the game/sport, I hope so. He will not bankroll with his own money though, and I think we all knowthat. With his recent past though, what sponsor with the IQ of a carrot would involve themselves or their good company with the likes of a KT. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

 

[ironman]

P.S. They still owe me for the Qualifiers entries I paid for Cliff. I never got a dime of that.

I would offer you 20% for the debt, but I'm afraid you would jump on it??!!

 

[wincardona]

he's exposed himself.

B ill, I promised myself not get emotionally involved in anything KT tried to do again, but, here I am.

I respect your passion for the game and the business and your opinions and I think you know that. BUt, the man stood on a stage and recorded all his promises and lies and he even sent them oput on DVD's. When it came time to back it up, he claimed that they had forgotten the checkbook???

To this day, the man is not accountable for what he did and what he cost so many people. Some were heartbroken and crushed by this as you are well aware. Henever will .

Maybe, he can do something for the game/sport, I hope so. He will not bankroll with his own money though, and I think we all knowthat. With his recent past though, what sponsor with the IQ of a carrot would involve themselves or their good company with the likes of a KT. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

Louis, i've never lost when I have seen my opponents hole card, you clearly know when to hold them and when to fold them. I say let Kevin do anything he feels he can do,because we the players have the NUTS,we can participate if we like it or go elsewhere if we don't. So it looks like to me the rabbit got the gun.

 

[philw]

I was one of the 50 invitees to the Bustamonte/Duel Internet match game last night. I would first like to say how amazed I am at all the criticism leveled at last night's festivities by so many AZ forum contributors. With all the beefing and squawking about the sound, and interruptions caused by a problem with the Internet streaming company in Calif., something that the IPT had absolutely no control over, you would think that the IPT was charging a Pay Per View price to see the show. It was a freebie, fellas, a freebie. Sheez. An ambitious, expensive attempt to get something started again for pool players. I, for one, had a good time. In my view the whole operation was a first class operation. The 50 sweators were treated to a lavish free buffet of food and drink before the match. Pizza from Giordano's, Italian Beef, Sausage, Poor Boy sandwiches, and salad. They had a sexy waitress bringing in free drinks all during the match. When I asked Grady if the IPT had finished paying off all their old debts to the players, he said the final payment went out and now everybody has gotten their money. Terrific, if true. With so much groaning about the IPT payouts I think back to my Johnston City days whereby you would have to stay 3 weeks and beat the 64 best players in the world to win $2000 for each event and $2000 for the all-around. I was dumb enough back then to think that that was generous. That should give you some idea of how poor other pool payouts were at that time. Those of you who watched the match online surely must have noticed the bevy of lovelies that were flitting around; The score girl, the director, the waitress, Bustamonte's 3 Filipino girlfriends, Rachel Abbink, and about 8 or 9 more beauties that had my old pal Mike Sigel thinking about getting hair plugs.
The best part, however, was the match itself. Bustamonte shot the numbers off the balls. Man, did he play good! Corey didn't really play badly, but Busty was breaking so good that Corey didn't get to the table often enough to win. On that slow IPT cloth, Busty was shattering the balls with his break. They're gonna do it all again on Mar. 5th. Hopefully, they will have the streaming problems ironed out by then. No matter, I'm still looking forward to the next one.

The Beard,

(Jeez, I just realized that this post is so IPT positive, maybe Trudeau might give me a job, or at least a couple of free self-help books.)

Get my bank DVD. There is a kiss beating lesson on it that I showed to an attentive Bustamonte at DCC.

Fred, I just watched the match last night and finished watching it this afternoon. What a display of pool both guys played almost flawlessly I don't think the score really represents how well Corey played and Bustamonmte played absolutely well next to perfect and to think we were all treated to this for free. I personally think the IPT has tried to help the game of pool, which has suffered for years and really needs a transfusion so poolplayers should get behind the IPT and try to make it work.
P.S. I noticed all the beauties and thought wow did they hire some models to sit and watch? nice scenery. Philw

 

[philw]

Watchez !!!!!!!!!!! You sir are a moron. Philw

 

[UrackmIcrackm]

I personally think the IPT has tried to help the game of pool, which has suffered for years and really needs a transfusion so poolplayers should get behind the IPT and try to make it work.

I'm almost at a loss for words when it comes to the part that I highlighted in bold red. The players did that already. They got behind Kevin and he bolted on them(after they spent a ton of money traveling to Vegas and staying at the Venetian for a week). He promised them at least two years of a tour and then he bolted after a few months & blamed it on something that (per his words at the players meeting in Orlando) shouldn't have had any effect on the tour whatsoever because it was paid up for the next two years.

I posted this in Roy's thread and I think it bears repeating here.



As for the others that are cutting Kevin a break & defending what transpired. I searched high and low for a copy of the players meeting in Orlando but all internet copies that I came across are no longer available. I was able to find the following from J. D. Dolan who interviewed Kevin and had the story published in Details magazine.

from an interview I had with Peter Kjaer, husband of Angela Ho and son-in-law of Stanley Ho. Trudeau and Kjaer (and Angela Ho) were indeed in negotiations, although it's a stretch to say that these negotiations were exactly as Trudeau described them.

Trudeau never mentioned that the IPT's success was contingent upon this funding; in fact, he implied that he was so rich that the whole thing would be a big party even if it failed.

Trudeau was in negotiations with Ho Gaming Solutions, but he presented this, as he seems to present nearly everything, with a distinctly twisted point of view. Remember his statement about the IPT's King of the Hill show being #1 on the Versus network? Not true, according to the network. Remember his statement that the IPT was represented by the William Morris Agency? Not true, according to the agency.

J.D.

Take the above quote and couple it with the fact that Kevin looked every player in the eye and told them that regardless of what happens with sponsorship and income, he was personally funding the tour out of his pocket for the first two years and that the money was escrowed with a national accounting firm.

He knew that his business model (or lack thereof) would be questioned by anyone with half a brain so he said the tour would definitely go for two years on his money regardless of whether to tour made money or not.

Had it simply been the tour wasn't making enough to support itself, or his business deal was canceled, I would understand and certainly be sympathetic. This however, was not the case. The case (for me) is that he promised the tour was funded in escrow for two years and it wasn't. People quit their jobs and spent more money than they had to attend these tournaments because they *knew* that they had their "guaranteed IPT job with guaranteed money for at least the next two years".

As stated, I couldn't find a copy of the speech itself but here's quotes from those that did read it.

the IPT will be flush with money for at least 2 years at which time it will be judged on how well it does

Trudeau has committed money for two years of this tour

True enough businesses do fail and often the founder skates without a blemish. In this case, the founder, KT, gave his personal garuntee. He was funding the tour. That was one of his 1st statements

Where they were mislead is about the solvency of the tour. The foundation of the IPT was it's guarantee, Trudeau's personal guarantee that the IPT was fully funded for at least two years.

Because of this promise and no third-party verification the players did follow Trudeau. Because he was the best game in town. Had he truly funded the tour for two years then the landscape would look totally different right now.

 

[watchez]

Fred, I just watched the match last night and finished watching it this afternoon. What a display of pool both guys played almost flawlessly I don't think the score really represents how well Corey played and Bustamonmte played absolutely well next to perfect and to think we were all treated to this for free. I personally think the IPT has tried to help the game of pool, which has suffered for years and really needs a transfusion so poolplayers should get behind the IPT and try to make it work.
P.S. I noticed all the beauties and thought wow did they hire some models to sit and watch? nice scenery. Philw

I am a moron?? Perfect, coming a person that obviously never got past 8th grade (see the paragraph above) that truly carries so much weight.

Freddie - another free tip to you. If you are going to have one of your cronies come on here & try to help defend first class pizza theory of the IPT, try picking someone that knows where the punctuation keys are on their keyboard.

I am going to bet that PhilW is also a diehard fan of NASCAR. Just turn left & stop/start at the same place. Keep it simple.

 

[bud green]

Purely out of curiousity, what do you bet so much on Watchez? I really don't care about what you guys are arguing about. Freddie IS pretty well known by hard core pool players who like banks or one hole, but the whole IPT thing has been a fiasco so far so whatever...

Freddie has played for pretty decent cash a lot of years so you must thrown down pretty big if you bet more in a year.

Sports betting? Poker? Doesn't seem to be enough pool action to go around so it must be something else.

I'm honestly just curious. I read Michael Koniks book on sports betting months ago and I find it interesting to hear how people can make a decent living gambling.

 

[watchez]

I play professional Bingo for a living. Also lottery scratch offs.

But I also learned early on in pool rooms to never ask where another man gets his money. Surely, with all your pool knowledge - you know that.

And Bud, you missed my point. My point was that Freddy seems to want to quantify his existence & hierachy over people like me because he is known by 30 other people on this earth.

 

[bud green]

Why is it that so many of your posts are hostile? You might be a real smart guy, rich, whatever, but you seem to be a bitter, pissed off human being on this forum most times.

I was just curious, so I asked a question. No one I know really gives a f++k if people know how they make a living unless its highly illegal so whats the big deal?

A hell of a lot more than 30 people know who Freddie is. Since this is a pool forum, and he's played almost all of the legends of the game, has a popular instructional book out, is considered one of Accu-Stats most popular commentators,etc... you might consider giving him a bit more respect.

No one knows who Eddie Taylor, Bugs Rucker, etc... are either among the general public but so f**king what, that doesn't mean pool players don't revere them as legends. Freddie might not be the greatest who ever lived, but he was a hell of a player, matched up with almost all of the great one pocket and bank players for $$ and held his own.

Again, this is a pool forum. WTF have you ever done in the game besides back someone else? Since you threw out the "with all your pool knowledge" crack, do you think there is one human being on the entire planet who thinks you know more about pool than Freddie?

 

[Fast Lenny]

Why is it that so many of your posts are hostile? You might be a real smart guy, rich, whatever, but you seem to be a bitter, pissed off human being on this forum most times.

I was just curious, so I asked a question. No one I know really gives a f++k if people know how they make a living unless its highly illegal so whats the big deal?

A hell of a lot more than 30 people know who Freddie is. Since this is a pool forum, and he's played almost all of the legends of the game, has a popular instructional book out, is considered one of Accu-Stats most popular commentators,etc... you might consider giving him a bit more respect.

No one knows who Eddie Taylor, Bugs Rucker, etc... are either among the general public but so f**king what, that doesn't mean pool players don't revere them as legends. Freddie might not be the greatest who ever lived, but he was a hell of a player, matched up with almost all of the great one pocket and bank players for $$ and held his own.

Again, this is a pool forum. WTF have you ever done in the game besides back someone else? Since you threw out the "with all your pool knowledge" crack, do you think there is one human being on the entire planet who thinks you know more about pool than Freddie?

Well said!

 

[punter]

I am a moron?? Perfect, coming a person that obviously never got past 8th grade (see the paragraph above) that truly carries so much weight.

Freddie - another free tip to you. If you are going to have one of your cronies come on here & try to help defend first class pizza theory of the IPT, try picking someone that knows where the punctuation keys are on their keyboard.

I am going to bet that PhilW is also a diehard fan of NASCAR. Just turn left & stop/start at the same place. Keep it simple.

Count me in the 'watchez is a moron' group. I don't know you, but in another thread you mouthed off because I posted after you for the SECOND time and accused me of stalking you. You were pissed because I corrected you by pointing out there is a lifetime exemption(from qualifying) for winners of the Master's golf championship.

Every post I have read from you is negative and condescinding. Drop the chip off of your shoulder.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Why is it that so many of your posts are hostile? You might be a real smart guy, rich, whatever, but you seem to be a bitter, pissed off human being on this forum most times.

I was just curious, so I asked a question. No one I know really gives a f++k if people know how they make a living unless its highly illegal so whats the big deal?

A hell of a lot more than 30 people know who Freddie is. Since this is a pool forum, and he's played almost all of the legends of the game, has a popular instructional book out, is considered one of Accu-Stats most popular commentators,etc... you might consider giving him a bit more respect.

No one knows who Eddie Taylor, Bugs Rucker, etc... are either among the general public but so f**king what, that doesn't mean pool players don't revere them as legends. Freddie might not be the greatest who ever lived, but he was a hell of a player, matched up with almost all of the great one pocket and bank players for $$ and held his own.

Again, this is a pool forum. WTF have you ever done in the game besides back someone else? Since you threw out the "with all your pool knowledge" crack, do you think there is one human being on the entire planet who thinks you know more about pool than Freddie?

Bud,
If I could double rep you here, I would. Maybe your best post ever.

Watchez, I got nothing against you personally, but of all the members that I am aware of here, you have turned into the most consistantly negative poster. You always feel the need to be insulting or demeaning, even when somebody justs asks a normal question. When people have been complimentary towards you or agreeable, you STILL get pissy. I don't understand why you seem to be such a hater.
I just read your responses to Freddy and its very clear that you HATE him for some reason. All those demeaning insults, one after the other. Why?
From what it looks like, you and him have a different opinion on if HE had a good time at the IPT event or not. That was the crux of the matter at the begining. That's all it took to set you off.
And so it goes, whoever does not agree or think like YOU will face your wrath here. That not only makes you seem very full of yourself, it also seems like you feel you are above anybody who doesn't think or feel the same as you do about whatever. It's YOUR way or you break out the lecturing and the insults.

For somebody who has been here as long as you have, you really do seem to hate the pool culture. That stuff you wrote to Freddy was unbelievably cruel. I wouldn't post that to the most ignorant newbie here, let alone someone who is so highly regarded. Your posts were so bad that I double checked your profile to check your age. It says you are 40 years old. A man.

I'm not going to call you any names or try to demean you. I'm just going to say that in my own opinion, your posts lately have been very disrespectful. I would be ashamed of myself if I put my name to some of the things you've said to other members here.
You probably don't care about my opinion, but I am disappointed that one of us on this forum would treat others here so disrespectful. I don't like or agree with everybody at AZB, but I still try to think of this place like my pool family and as such, I always try to be respectful, even when I disagree.
Watchez, I heard this from a Filipino and always remembered it. If one person calls you a donkey, ignore them. If 2 or more people say you're a donkey, buy a saddle.
I'm not the only one here with the opinion that I just stated.

Whatever has been bothering you lately, I hope you can beat it.

 

[ironman]

Louis, i've never lost when I have seen my opponents hole card, you clearly know when to hold them and when to fold them. I say let Kevin do anything he feels he can do,because we the players have the NUTS,we can participate if we like it or go elsewhere if we don't. So it looks like to me the rabbit got the gun.

Fair enough, Reckon you are right.

 

[sebas]

I was there...

and I thought it was great. They did a great job even with the match even with the difficulties.

Chris

 

[watchez]

1. For telling it like it is.
   
2. Wish I'd said it (but I live in Chicago).
   
3. Strong stuff - but not off base, IMO..
   
4. Nice post well said.
   
5. I don't always agree with you....hell most of the time I disagree, but I just want to say that this post:
   
   http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...4&postcount=81
   
   is one of the best I have seen on AZ since I joined.
   
   You nutted it.

Here are 5 PM's & comments I have received in the past day on what I have posted. I won't list the names because obviously some people don't want to be as confrontational as I am viewed. I can respect that.

But if someone wants to make ridiculious statements about the IPT or themself, then they should be open to criticism.

Pool players shouldn't settle for KT & his business practices. That mentality is not going to accomplish anything for pool. Take a look at it from the current writer strike - are these people going to just settle for what they currently receive. No, they are willing - with the heart & backbone needed - to stand up for what they feel they deserve & how they deserve to be treated. If you want to compare it to other sports - every major sport has had a strike of one kind or another. They don't settle for less. The total profit in baseball the last 8 years has gone from 1.2 billion to 6.8 billion per year. This is after the players had their strike. These are real #s, not the one's that KT spews to get you to step up to his carnival.

To be blinded by pizza & a few rented pretty girls for the night - that is far from legendary.

 

[philw]

1. For telling it like it is.
   
2. Wish I'd said it (but I live in Chicago).
   
3. Strong stuff - but not off base, IMO..
   
4. Nice post well said.
   
5. I don't always agree with you....hell most of the time I disagree, but I just want to say that this post:
   
   http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...4&postcount=81
   
   is one of the best I have seen on AZ since I joined
   You nutted it.
   TY are 5 PM's & comments I have received in the past day on what I have posted. I won't list the names because obviously some people don't want to be as confrontational as I am viewed. I can respect that.
   
   But if someone wants to make ridiculious statements about the IPT or themself, then they should be open to criticism.
   
   Pool players shouldn't settle for KT & his business practices. That mentality is not going to accomplish anything for pool. Take a look at it from the current writer strike - are these people going to just settle for what they currently receive. No, they are willing - with the heart & backbone needed - to stand up for what they feel they deserve & how they deserve to be treated. If you want to compare it to other sports - every major sport has had a strike of one kind or another. They don't settle for less. The total profit in baseball the last 8 years has gone from 1.2 billion to 6.8 billion per year. This is after the players had their strike. These are real #s, not the one's that KT spews to get you to step up to his carnival.
   
   To be blinded by pizza & a few rented pretty girls for the night - that is far from legendary.

1. 
   After giving it further thought I'd like to restate that Watchez you sir are a moron!!!! Nascar is ok but I am a pool fan and love the game. It is apparent that you do not! I am very proud to be considered a friend of Freddy's thank you! Philw

 

[Terry Ardeno]

1. For telling it like it is.
   
2. Wish I'd said it (but I live in Chicago).
   
3. Strong stuff - but not off base, IMO..
   
4. Nice post well said.
   
5. I don't always agree with you....hell most of the time I disagree, but I just want to say that this post:
   
   http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...4&postcount=81
   
   is one of the best I have seen on AZ since I joined.
   
   You nutted it.

Here are 5 PM's & comments I have received in the past day on what I have posted. I won't list the names because obviously some people don't want to be as confrontational as I am viewed. I can respect that.

But if someone wants to make ridiculious statements about the IPT or themself, then they should be open to criticism.

Pool players shouldn't settle for KT & his business practices. That mentality is not going to accomplish anything for pool. Take a look at it from the current writer strike - are these people going to just settle for what they currently receive. No, they are willing - with the heart & backbone needed - to stand up for what they feel they deserve & how they deserve to be treated. If you want to compare it to other sports - every major sport has had a strike of one kind or another. They don't settle for less. The total profit in baseball the last 8 years has gone from 1.2 billion to 6.8 billion per year. This is after the players had their strike. These are real #s, not the one's that KT spews to get you to step up to his carnival.

To be blinded by pizza & a few rented pretty girls for the night - that is far from legendary.

Watchez,
No doubt you have lots of supporters. Heck, I support lots of what you have to say on our forums. My point was not to give you grief because our opinions differed, I took exception to some of the insults, etc that were included in your postings.
You are one of the members here who are smart enough and intelligent enough to express themself and articulate their thoughts well when writing. I always felt guys like you don't need to lower the quality of their posts by using lots of insultive things to express themselves. I have read many of your posts and enjoyed tons of them. These latest posts are not vintage watchez, however.
You have every right in the world to have a polar opposite view of anything that anyone says here. You also have every right in the world to disagree with anything. I respect those rights. But it would be so nice not to have all this fighting going on. I love good natured kidding and woofing about as much as anyone alive. But I don't like it when anybody here gets into real wars. I'm just trying to be a peacemaker, not trying to mind anybodies business here.
Watchez, we're your pool buddies here. You can agree or disagree, applaud or criticize anything that is posted anywhere on these forums. But I hope that all of us can do it in a cool manner, keeping in mind that when we give respect, its given back as well.
My heart is for everybody here to realize that it's hard to be enemies when we all love such a great sport.
I still consider you my friend also!

 

[freddy the beard]

I just couldnt resist

... Too bad they didn't have the internet your entire life because all I know about Freddie the Beard is what I have read on here the last two years. Prior to that, I had never heard of you in 22 years of around pool....

Re my anonymity -- at least to you-- A archeologist friend of mine just returned from a trip to Tibet. While in the mountains, in an old temple, he discovered the monks had a game room and an old Russian snooker table. He was amazed at how well they played the game, but when they found out he was from Chicago, the best shooting monk of the bunch asked him, "Hey, how's The Beard playing?"


the Beard