My short-lived APA experience. (long post)

I played the APA for about 4 years when I moved back here to Maine. I was a low A level player before we moved & granted I just plain don't play that much (1 - maybe 2 days a week) or have the opportunity to play good players on a regular basis... but it has killed my game. I am lucky to be playing at a steady B level now. It has killed my drive to win. I got out a year ago & will not be back to that scene. As the old saying goes you play to the level of people you associate yourself with. Get out now & don't look back would be my advise to you.
 
inside_english said:
I joined APA last year to play in an in-house 8-ball league.
I had no idea what lay ahead as I knew nothing about APA

While playing in this league, I happened to meet quite a few people. While they are not what I would consider pool-players, they are, for the most part, nice people.

However, the pool-player in me had a very difficult time with the almost complete lack of pool etiquette exhibited by said people.

I think, after being involved for a year and a half, that APA is truly for amateur players...and while I am also an amateur, I do try to improve...whereas the majority of APA players I have met only seem to be interested in playing pool for free on APA nights only, and could care less about their ratings.

While the APA crowd seems generally nice, the pool-playing characteristics, un-sportsmanlike conduct and almost constant sharking (some of it unintentional) became unbearable for me.
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The above quotes from your post hit very close to home for me with the exception that I have been in my in-house 8-ball league for about four years now. The etiquette is pathetic in a lot of cases (not all though, there some very fine players in my league that have an absolute knowledge of how to act at AND away from the table). I had a situation a few weeks ago in my 9-ball league where a young couple on the opposing team were cheering/clapping at each shot I missed or failed to get good shape on. After I calmly turned to them (after I couldn't take it anymore) and explained the sportmanship policy of the APA, the sharking got worse. I almost broke my cue down and walked away from the APA that night. What pi$$ed me off the most about that night was that the Captain of their team NOR the opponent I was shooting (who was a seasoned player from BCA leagues) bothered to say a word to them.
All things said, I've decided to stay in APA, but with the understanding that I'm just gonna use this league as a night out with friends and use my matches to work on my game (weaknesses). I'm eventually going to find a BCA league or something equivalent to play in for serious pool.

Maniac
 
Just curious, did you make this decision and post on the same night you got sharked on an important shot and ended up losing the match? Just asking. It kinda has that vibe.

My APA experience was limited. Due to lack of interest either by the players or by the TO, it fizzled after a year. But like any league I had fun for the most part.

I shoot serious in league and have probably the best stats in my vnea league, but I don't take it too seriously, if that makes sense.

Try seeing it from a more relaxed perspective. You are asked to perform well despite a lot of blatant unfairness such as horrible equipment, tiny tables that give an edge to a lesser player, loads of noise and distractions in the bars, etc. With all the other BS that you will have to fade, what's one more bit of unfairness in the form of sharking and amateurish attitudes? Take pleasure in your own stats and playing ability even if the rest of the team isn't gonna carry you to finals.

...I do remember having a lot of gripes about the handicapping after losing to a 2. Once you are an established 7 (and unwilling to sandbag) you are radioactive to any team you might want to join due to the 23 limit. You won't have to worry about being sharked, because you are pretty much guaranteed to be stuck with low-level teammates. Even if you win every match, they will lose most of theirs.

You gotta go into league with a sense of humor and a casual attitude (yet somehow play your hardest). I think APA would be a lot of fun for me if I were a 4 or so. Of course that might change after my 2nd, 3rd, or 4th session.
 
mongoose- said:
As the old saying goes you play to the level of people you associate yourself with.
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Only if you want to...I've gotten pretty good at playing MY game, regardless of who's on the other side of the table.

On topic, APA is not for me. I play in a BCA bar league, and I have NEVER lost a game on purpose. (Nor have I been asked to.)
 
I've played for years and generally enjoy it. APA in my area seems pretty well-run relative to other areas.

That said, etiquette can be an issue. The first time I went to regionals, my opponent was racking and left nearly a 1 inch gap between the head ball and second ball. I asked him to fix it and he acted as if I asked him to do scrub my kitchen floor.

Most of us on here more or less model ourselves after professionals, and for lots of APAers socializing and drinking come before improvement and etiquette.
 
Apa

I've played APA for 3 sessions (EDIT: 1yr) now and have (I guess) an excellent team and league. There are the requisite d***heads that exist in any large group, but they are few and well known. Maybe it's the pool halls here, but all our APA tables are 9ft and in moderate to great shape...

I have watched my skill increase significantly from a weak lvl 2 (who hit WAAAY too hard) to a solid 4 and climbing. My Capt. is an excellent coach and while he'd like me to stay a lvl3 for the point system, he is STRONGLY opposed to sandbagging.

I guess I'm just lucky. Now once I move up to a lvl6-7 I'll probably re-evaluate where I am, but we have a 14.1 and (APA) 9-ball league that I can move to...
 
CreeDo said:
...I do remember having a lot of gripes about the handicapping after losing to a 2. Once you are an established 7 (and unwilling to sandbag) you are radioactive to any team you might want to join due to the 23 limit. You won't have to worry about being sharked, because you are pretty much guaranteed to be stuck with low-level teammates. Even if you win every match, they will lose most of theirs.

You gotta go into league with a sense of humor and a casual attitude (yet somehow play your hardest). I think APA would be a lot of fun for me if I were a 4 or so. Of course that might change after my 2nd, 3rd, or 4th session.
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In my experience, most teams are eager to have a 7, especially if the 7 will say and coach. As a 7, you do need to consistently win at least 60% of your matches to be worth it, because of the difficulties the 23 rule imposes. But in a typical APA league, that's not too tough. I'm not an A player and I win about 75% of my matches. The real A players win 95% of their matches.

Cory
 
These threads are endless. If you realize what the APA is for and that's something you're interested in, then you'll enjoy it. If you're expecting something it's not designed to give then you'll be consistently disappointed.

Here's a partial list of what the APA will NOT give you:
  • A lot of playing time on league night
  • Consistent matches against strong B's or better
  • The absence of an occasional rule nitpicker or bad sport (what activity can guarantee that?)
  • Improvement of your game at as fast a rate as other activities (gambling, tournaments, lessons)

Here's a partial list of what the APA WILL give you:
  • A chance to hang out with people you like (if you get on a team of people you don't like and then don't like it, that's your fault, not the league's)
  • A chance to help newer players get better (if you enjoy this, you're much more likely to enjoy the APA, and vice-versa)
  • Especially if you're coaching, a lot of time thinking about how to best play 8-ball layouts, and how the right play varies with the strength of the shooter and the opponent
  • Occasional matches against very strong players, without having to bet it up
  • The occasional chance to play an extremely high pressure match -- playing a match when your whole team (of people you like; see above) is counting on you is, at least for me, a lot more pressure than playing for $100s.

If the first set of items aren't that important to you (at least for 1 night a week), and the second set of items sounds good to you, then you'll probably like the APA. If not, then you probably shouldn't play.

Cory
 
APA is by far the worst league out there just for bangers and couples.

And its even worse if you have a league owner that owns a pool room and has a team that he keeps the handicaps low for.

Just last yr i was playing in the 9ball tourny to go to vegas and other teams handicaps were getting bumped up left and right and everyone knows he keeps his teams handicaps atleast a SL lower than they should be its just a league full of cheaters.

this is my last session for sure and its expensive compared to the BCA.
 
I was really trying to not have to respond to this thread with a long reply. But this is pretty much my take on the issues.

As far as "league" play goes there's not a better league around, the handicap system works as long as everyone marks safties and defensive shots, if a person misses a shot that you honestly feel they dumped on then mark a safety, this is the only way that sandbagging is aloud to happen.

I play on 3 8 ball teams,1 9 ball team, and 1 masters team, my Master team is 2 wins away from going to Vegas, 1 of my 8 ball teams is in 1st place, my 9 ball team is in 1st place, after this session we'll have to make some adjustments, It's a part of the system, we're competetive and we have fun, and after the session we'll all still be friends just some of our current people will be on other teams.

I hope this will all be taken in the proper way.

Black Cat
 
inside_english...I beg to differ. The APA IS a perfectly good league and system...for SOME players. Obviously you are not satisfied, and that's perfectly okay. I find it funny that many of the APA bashers play in the league "because it's the only game in town!" Well, if it wasn't there they'd have NO league to play in. When I owned my franchise, in MT & ID, there was NO sandbagging, and everyone enjoyed playing in the league. I had payback divisions for those that wanted them. Most did not. Although the 'naysayers' outnumber the 'pro-APA' side, it's only on face value. The APA is not the largest league in the world (by FAR) for no reason.

BTW, thank you for qualifying that your thread was about only YOUR experience! I caught that, and appreciated it. I believe Black Cat was not speaking about you, so much as the other 'complainers'. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

inside_english said:
And no, the APA is not a perfectly good league and system...re-read several threads on this forum and you will see that.

But like I said, if it works for you...carry on...enjoy yourself.
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tap, tap, tap! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Black Cat 5791 said:
I was really trying to not have to respond to this thread with a long reply. But this is pretty much my take on the issues.

As far as "league" play goes there's not a better league around, the handicap system works as long as everyone marks safties and defensive shots, if a person misses a shot that you honestly feel they dumped on then mark a safety, this is the only way that sandbagging is aloud to happen.

I play on 3 8 ball teams,1 9 ball team, and 1 masters team, my Master team is 2 wins away from going to Vegas, 1 of my 8 ball teams is in 1st place, my 9 ball team is in 1st place, after this session we'll have to make some adjustments, It's a part of the system, we're competetive and we have fun, and after the session we'll all still be friends just some of our current people will be on other teams.

I hope this will all be taken in the proper way.

Black Cat
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
inside_english...I beg to differ. The APA IS a perfectly good league and system...for SOME players. Obviously you are not satisfied, and that's perfectly okay. I find it funny that many of the APA bashers play in the league "because it's the only game in town!" Well, if it wasn't there they'd have NO league to play in. When I owned my franchise in MT & ID, there was NO sandbagging, and everyone enjoyed playing in the league. I had payback divisions for those that wanted them. Most did not. Although the 'naysayers' outnumber the 'pro-APA' side, it's only on face value. The APA is not the largest league in the world (by FAR) for no reason.
BTW, thank you for qualifying that your thread was about only YOUR experience! I caught that, and appreciated it. I believe Black Cat was not speaking about you, so much as the other 'complainers'. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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You must have owned the 1st franchise that didn't have people trying to sandbag lol.

The APA is the largest league in the world due to the 23 system forcing teams to split & thus bringing in more suckers. That is the reason.
 
mongoose...Nope, but I CARED! I simply did not allow it. Every player had to sign a release that they would play their best, and would not cause problems within the league...good sportsmanship was the #1 rule. If they broke those rules, I either made them a permanent 7 (where they could sandbag all they want), or kicked them out of the league. I remember having to kick out 2 out of about 700 players. I also had less than 100 teams, so it wasn't too difficult for me to know every player.

Your second comment is hilarious! If that were the reason, people would quit, instead of staying in the league. Then the new players would simply keep the overall numbers the same...APA is constantly growing...for several reasons.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

mongoose- said:
You must have owned the 1st franchise that didn't have people trying to sandbag lol.

The APA is the largest league in the world due to the 23 system forcing teams to split & thus bringing in more suckers. That is the reason.
Click to expand...
 
scott lee said:
mongoose...nope, but i cared! I simply did not allow it. Every player had to sign a release that they would play their best, and would not cause problems within the league...good sportsmanship was the #1 rule. If they broke those rules, i either made them a permanent 7 (where they could sandbag all they want), or kicked them out of the league. I remember having to kick out 2 out of about 700 players. I also had less than 100 teams, so it wasn't too difficult for me to know every player.

Your second comment is hilarious! If that were the reason, people would quit, instead of staying in the league. Then the new players would simply keep the overall numbers the same...apa is constantly growing...for several reasons.

Scott lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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ok........ :D
 
Get rid of leagues and watch the pool industry die. Who do most people think buy all the cases, cues and accessories?

The APA has its place and if people don't want to play for whatever reason then thats fine as well.

I play because I like hanging out with my friends. If we were to go out and rent a table then the majority would not come. The top guys would hold the table all night. No fun in that for a group of friends.

As for the 5-10-15 year beginners ... that statement is a joke. Does anyone really think that there aren't a huge number of non-league members that play often that arent better than most bangers?
I ( and almost everyone else) know guys that have been playing for 10-30 years and still arent anything higher than APA 5 level.
Should I look down on them? Should we laugh at them and take their cues away? Should we kick them out of the room because they are "REAL POOL PLAYERS"?

There are millions of people that play pool in varying skill levels and for
100s of reasons. I am glad.
I also can't take the narcisist approach that I can't spend a night out with my buddies because they are champions and that the league isn't perfect.

Bangers, leagues, social players and friendly drinking groups keep pool rooms going. NO pool room survives just on the better pool players playing.
 
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Black Cat 5791 said:
I was really trying to not have to respond to this thread with a long reply. But this is pretty much my take on the issues.

As far as "league" play goes there's not a better league around, the handicap system works as long as everyone marks safties and defensive shots, if a person misses a shot that you honestly feel they dumped on then mark a safety, this is the only way that sandbagging is aloud to happen.

I play on 3 8 ball teams,1 9 ball team, and 1 masters team, my Master team is 2 wins away from going to Vegas, 1 of my 8 ball teams is in 1st place, my 9 ball team is in 1st place, after this session we'll have to make some adjustments, It's a part of the system, we're competetive and we have fun, and after the session we'll all still be friends just some of our current people will be on other teams.

I hope this will all be taken in the proper way.

Black Cat
Click to expand...


Well said.......I couldn't agree more!
 
Cory: yeah, I guess I should have rephrased it. It's not that nobody wants to touch you due to your skill level... I still had no trouble finding a team willing to take me... it's just that anyone who has me on their team pays a pretty stiff price for the handicapping. Let's say I want to play with a couple of friends, I have a '6' buddy and a '4' buddy. Now I have to go hunting for a couple of 3's. If The only guys interested in league tend to be 4 and up and the pickins are slim then I may have to forget about playing with my buddies.

One thing I loved about the APA and I think should be allowed in all leagues is coaching. I enjoyed giving advice on shots and watching the players pull them off, and it feels much more 'team-like' to be able to do this. You can also see players improve as the session goes on. That's the way to have a successful league team - they start out weak enough to not screw up your handicap, but with proper coaching grow good enough to get into finals and compete.

Not sure I am a fan of the noob-friendly rules though, particularly take-what-you-make and slop-counts.
 
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