My short-lived APA experience. (long post)

Lololololololololololollolololololol

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NOPE. I read it correctly....you sir are very wrong. I believe you had good intentions, but you are wrong. The APA and sandbagging go hand in hand, period, end of story. Every league has it, and all you can do is try and control it. I don't care if you made them take lie detector tests after each session. Sandbagging is alive and well in ALL APA leagues.
 
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i had a blast when i played in a league. i met a lot of good people and i still enjoy running into them. While i was in the league i did meet a couple of really good players though.
 
Worst_7_ever...Nope, I'm not wrong, or naive. I knew EVERY player in my league (about 700 players). Add to that I'm a professional instructor, so I can spot someone sandbagging a mile away. There was none in my league...and if I heard about someone doing it, they would be kicked out, if I found out personally that they were cheating. Same thing for fighting, cussing somebody out, etc. You can believe what you like, but I knew my players WELL...plus I had eyes and ears, in every division, on the lookout all year long.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Worst_7_ever said:
LOL...wait, perhaps i didnt read this correct, theres no way a person running a APA league can be that nieve. Perhaps i mis read it, let me check...


NOPE. I read it correctly....you sir are very wrong. I believe you had good intentions, but you are wrong. The APA and sandbagging go hand in hand, period, end of story. Every league has it, and all you can do is try and control it. I don't care if you made them take lie detector tests after each session. Sandbagging is alive and well in ALL APA leagues.
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Black Cat 5791 said:
Hey Rich it is sad isn't it. I don't know what's worse, baggers or the one's that no matter how you explain the system and how to beat the bagger's they won't do it and still complain about the system.

Abraham Lincoln said It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

I'l see you at the pol hall, I might do the tournament tonight.

Black Cat
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Hi Kev,

It never ceases to amaze me how players complain about the bagging in the APA, but in the end, they are the biggest baggers of all. They only justify it by saying everyone else is doing it. Of course, they assume anyone who beats them must be a sandbagger. The truth is, not everyone is doing it and they are nothing but low life cheats. They are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Sorry Kev, but I rarely do the Sunday night tournament. I do the Tuesday night whenever possible, but I will be at the baseball game tomorrow, if the rain stops.
Maybe I'll catch you another time. :grin:
 
Richardson said:
You cant beat the baggers, thats why they win the money in vegas.

lol

Regardless of what you think, not everyone who beats you and wins money if Vegas is a sandbagger.

You guys sure get worked up about this thing, ill bet most of you wouldnt play in a tournament unless it was handicapped somehow.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but I play in non-handicapped tournaments on a regular basis. No, I don't always win, but I do win sometimes. In every case, I can hold my head up and say I didn't cheat. You can't truthfully say the same.

For some of us, honor means more than winning. Obviously, you don't feel that way.
 
Yes, you're correct, in your assumption. No player on any teams I sent to the APA national tournaments were raised in skill level at the national event. Yes, they were all 100% correctly handicapped. I find it amusing and sad that you, among many others, feel like they have to badmouth the APA. It serves a purpose, for many poolplayers, and does a good job at it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Worst_7_ever said:
So I guess i am correct to assume that every player on every team that went to vegas from your area never went up at nationals since they were all 100% correctly handicapped.
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mongoose- said:
LOL it is not a pretty sight Gene. When I played the APA I have seen 82 innings in 2 hours played in 8ball by 2 2's as well. A drinking guy could be plastered before he gets to play if he goes last. :grin:
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I love it when a 2, 3, and sometimes a 4 will have ball in hand. There are still 12 to 15 balls on the table. They will stand there for a long period of time studing the table as if they are going to run out. They are "planning" out the whole runout. (Nothing wrong with this but their plan even for a pro would be impossible to do}. They finally shoot and either miss or make a ball and then hook themselves.

I enjoy watching them because I normally learn what not to do. Knowledge comes from expereince and experience comes from mistakes so there really is a lot to learn from them.
 
TheBook said:
I love it when a 2, 3, and sometimes a 4 will have ball in hand. There are still 12 to 15 balls on the table. They will stand there for a long period of time studing the table as if they are going to run out. They are "planning" out the whole runout. (Nothing wrong with this but their plan even for a pro would be impossible to do}. They finally shoot and either miss or make a ball and then hook themselves.

I enjoy watching them because I normally learn what not to do. Knowledge comes from expereince and experience comes from mistakes so there really is a lot to learn from them.
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I don't know about watching them to learn what NOT to do lol. That is an interesting perspective though... I haven't ever heard anyone say it like that.
About the only enjoyment I ever got from watching that level compete was the ones I was helping improve to see their reactions when they acomplished things as a draw, safety, etc.. and when they did win on occasion it was a big event to them. Everybody has to start somewhere... but it requires patience to play with that level.
 
Scott Lee said:
Yes, you're correct, in your assumption. No player on any teams I sent to the APA national tournaments were raised in skill level at the national event. Yes, they were all 100% correctly handicapped. I find it amusing and sad that you, among many others, feel like they have to badmouth the APA. It serves a purpose, for many poolplayers, and does a good job at it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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LOL 700 players 100% correctly handicapped. You are so full of yourself you are becomming entertaining just talking sh**.. you don't even need to do trick shot shows.. just talk about the APA.
 
mongoose...Yeah, I'm ALMOST as full of sh*t as YOU! Just because you don't believe it's possible to know that many players real ability, doesn't make it so.:rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

mongoose- said:
LOL 700 players 100% correctly handicapped. You are so full of yourself you are becomming entertaining just talking sh**.. you don't even need to do trick shot shows.. just talk about the APA.
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This whole thread has gotten really anoying. I started out with one person stating that they just didn't enjoy their experience with the APA. to where it is now. No one has said that their is no cheating in league play, my whole point is that there is a way to combat the bagging, the APA is aware of the problem and has put measures in place to minimize the cheating and keep handicaps at their proper levels. I other players don't take advantage of these methods to correct the cheaters the only thing your doing is allowing it to continue. So in actuality your just as guilty as the cheaters themselves.

If any of you complainers could play in a league, with no sandbagging, no handicaps, no 23 rule, top competition every night, races to 7, play 8ball & 9ball, no timeouts, no arguing. Would you play or would you find another excuse?

Black Cat
 
Scott Lee said:
Yes, you're correct, in your assumption. No player on any teams I sent to the APA national tournaments were raised in skill level at the national event. Yes, they were all 100% correctly handicapped. I find it amusing and sad that you, among many others, feel like they have to badmouth the APA. It serves a purpose, for many poolplayers, and does a good job at it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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So how did your league teams and 700 players do in National APA events?
 
quesports said:
apa is really fun when two 2's shoot at the one ball for an hour or so!!! It can also be fun when they spill beer all over your cues and case!! But the best part is paying them for all that fun... Apa is really just a social event with pool as a side show designed to get folks into a bar and spend money, it really is not about pool..
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egggzactly.
 
watchez...I sent teams to Vegas three years in a row. They were never the same teams or players. Consequently, as with most first-time teams, they either went two-and-out, or maybe won a match or two, before getting knocked out. The majority of my league players were lower level players (2-5). In 700 players I had perhaps a half dozen 7's (I did have the first female APA 7 in the nation), and maybe 30-40 6's. The rest were just recreational players. Nobody really cared about (or had hopes of) "winning" the Vegas tournament. They were happy that they won a free trip, and got some spending money to go along with it. My only point, in this entire thread, was that in MY league, everybody enjoyed themselves, and basically got along with each other. I'm sure that's not the case in many other league areas.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

watchez said:
So how did your league teams and 700 players do in National APA events?
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I could certainly prove what I said, but you'd have to bet a lot, for it to be worth my trouble, to track down the records. They are out there.

I never accused you of bashing the APA. That label is reserved for the other posters who do. I don't particularly think much of the VNEA or TAP leagues, but I don't badmouth them, as there are many players that enjoy playing in them. I'm not really surprised at your "bagging=APA" comment, coming from Chicago, as there have been several teams and players disqualified at the national tournament, over the years.

I have never denied that there is sandbagging within the APA league structure. It just didn't happen in my league, because I cared enough to take measures to prevent it...and monitored it regularly, both in person, and through other eyes and ears in my league. Certainly there were accusations of sandbagging in my league. Some of them were wrong...and the few that were correct, were handled effectively (either by raising someones S/L to the top level, or kicking them out of the league).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Worst_7_ever said:
Well since niether of us can prove what you say here, I will just assume every team you sent went 2-n-out. I am done debating this with you now as its clear you and the prez of Iran are in your own worlds....

BTW, I am, and have been, an active APA member for 20 years, so I am not sure where you get the "bashing" of the APA I am doing. I am just pointing out the facts APA=bagging.
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Scott Lee said:
watchez...I sent teams to Vegas three years in a row. They were never the same teams or players. Consequently, as with most first-time teams, they either went two-and-out, or maybe won a match or two, before getting knocked out. The majority of my league players were lower level players (2-5). In 700 players I had perhaps a half dozen 7's (I did have the first female APA 7 in the nation), and maybe 30-40 6's. The rest were just recreational players. Nobody really cared about (or had hopes of) "winning" the Vegas tournament. They were happy that they won a free trip, and got some spending money to go along with it. My only point, in this entire thread, was that in MY league, everybody enjoyed themselves, and basically got along with each other. I'm sure that's not the case in many other league areas.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Good answer Scott - cause if any of your 700 players or teams had done good in the Nationals then they would have been under handicapped. They would have had to been to compete with all the other sandbaggers of the APA.

Greatest I ever saw - one guy had his buddy play opposite handed for an entire session to keep his handicap low.
 
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