My thoughts on Bonus Ball......

[corvette1340]

Here are a few random thoughts that I might as well throw out there since everyone else is voicing an opinion

1) Even with all of the negativity, I think that all of the talk and traffic about bonus ball on here can only be a positive. Some already like it, and the powers that be have an opportunity to change and adjust to fit some of those that don't if they do it properly.

2) The game itself blows. Maybe that's because from what I've seen of it, it pales in comparison to a good game of 8/9/10 ball or one pocket. Maybe if I studied the rule book for a few months and then played it I might change my tone.

3) I can't fault the players for riding this thing out til the end. It's really about what is best for the player and their families. That may or may not be bonus ball, but it's hard to turn down guaranteed money for a few hours of work if the logistics are right.

4) the whole "dancing monkey" thing puts me on tilt like only a couple of other things (slow drivers in the fast lane, getting screwed at the drive through). By god, if I offer someone $1000 bucks to dance in my front yard for my entertainment then dance monkey, dance.
All workers dance for their employer and in this case the bonus ball players must dance for the audience while trying to perform. The idea that the players should just be paid without doing anything has always been ridiculous. Without the fans, pool rooms, promoters, guys that donate to tourneys that can't win, backers, etc....the pool player would have NO means to income. And like I've always said, if pool isn't paying the bills then get another f#$%king job.

5) I think bonus ball missed the best draw it could possibly have in American pool by not securing SVB. If that meant a bigger salary then so be it, but he IS the draw in American pool and the ONLY American draw outside the US. All sports compensate their biggest stars better and that cat has made me a believer.

6) Lenny and Nathan, please just stop answering any negative feedback with negative responses. It's better just to sound appeasing and always positive instead of bashing others for their opinions, especially when it's heavy hitters in the pool industry such as Mark, Greg, or Jay (I need some rep from you Jay for including you in the heavy hitters, lol).

7) work with, not against those said heavy hitters. In the end, I think all sides want what is best for pool and even if that isn't the case, more can be gained on an individual entity standpoint by working with potential competitors in this situation.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Here are a few random thoughts that I might as well throw out there since everyone else is voicing an opinion

1) Even with all of the negativity, I think that all of the talk and traffic about bonus ball on here can only be a positive. Some already like it, and the powers that be have an opportunity to change and adjust to fit some of those that don't if they do it properly.

2) The game itself blows. Maybe that's because from what I've seen of it, it pales in comparison to a good game of 8/9/10 ball or one pocket. Maybe if I studied the rule book for a few months and then played it I might change my tone.

3) I can't fault the players for riding this thing out til the end. It's really about what is best for the player and their families. That may or may not be bonus ball, but it's hard to turn down guaranteed money for a few hours of work if the logistics are right.

4) the whole "dancing monkey" thing puts me on tilt like only a couple of other things (slow drivers in the fast lane, getting screwed at the drive through). By god, if I offer someone $1000 bucks to dance in my front yard for my entertainment then dance monkey, dance.
All workers dance for their employer and in this case the bonus ball players must dance for the audience while trying to perform. The idea that the players should just be paid without doing anything has always been ridiculous. Without the fans, pool rooms, promoters, guys that donate to tourneys that can't win, backers, etc....the pool player would have NO means to income. And like I've always said, if pool isn't paying the bills then get another f#$%king job.

5) I think bonus ball missed the best draw it could possibly have in American pool by not securing SVB. If that meant a bigger salary then so be it, but he IS the draw in American pool and the ONLY American draw outside the US. All sports compensate their biggest stars better and that cat has made me a believer.

6) Lenny and Nathan, please just stop answering any negative feedback with negative responses. It's better just to sound appeasing and always positive instead of bashing others for their opinions, especially when it's heavy hitters in the pool industry such as Mark, Greg, or Jay (I need some rep from you Jay for including you in the heavy hitters, lol).

7) work with, not against those said heavy hitters. In the end, I think all sides want what is best for pool and even if that isn't the case, more can be gained on an individual entity standpoint by working with potential competitors in this situation.

I feel I have been very diplomatic and do want everyone to work together for the game and the pro players who's talent we appreciate. You do make some good points that are valid in your post. It is really up to the big dogs to get together to figure out a solution and work together, leave your egos at the door and bring a checkbook is my suggestion. :smile:

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Thanks for sharing your perspective Tommy. I happen to like the game the more I watch and understand.


Hey... I didn't want to start another BB thread, so excuse me Vette for interjecting this here:

Posted today by Nathan onto Daz's Facebook:

Nathan DuMoulin Darren Appleton, the players dont realize it yet,
but we're basically giving everyone a chance right now as an audition. Then when we start promotions and filming for TV in 2 weeks, we will use (almost exclusively) our top 3-4 guys.6 hours ago · Like


Apparently the players don't realize it's an audition, because it's top secret! lol

Anyway, just wanted to share this. Carry on. :thumbup:

 

[nathandumoulin]

Apparently the players don't realize it's an audition, because it's top secret! lol

All the players can hop in the booth these first few weeks and get a chance to practice their commentary, and of course get paid in the process. But we're keeping notes on who is the best for the task, and based on that we'll select which guys are the best for when we do episodes for networks (we have a few scheduled already for week 4).

It's no real secret, but nor are we warning them in advance that we're paying close attention. It's better if they don't realize it's a sort of an audition process, that way they won't be as nervous and can get more comfortable in the booth.

So far so good, as we're very happy with literally everyone thus far. Scott and JJ are shoe ins, but who gets the remaining 1-3 spots is going to be tricky.

 

[JAM]

Here are a few random thoughts that I might as well throw out there since everyone else is voicing an opinion

1) Even with all of the negativity, I think that all of the talk and traffic about bonus ball on here can only be a positive. Some already like it, and the powers that be have an opportunity to change and adjust to fit some of those that don't if they do it properly.

2) The game itself blows. Maybe that's because from what I've seen of it, it pales in comparison to a good game of 8/9/10 ball or one pocket. Maybe if I studied the rule book for a few months and then played it I might change my tone.

3) I can't fault the players for riding this thing out til the end. It's really about what is best for the player and their families. That may or may not be bonus ball, but it's hard to turn down guaranteed money for a few hours of work if the logistics are right.

4) the whole "dancing monkey" thing puts me on tilt like only a couple of other things (slow drivers in the fast lane, getting screwed at the drive through). By god, if I offer someone $1000 bucks to dance in my front yard for my entertainment then dance monkey, dance.
All workers dance for their employer and in this case the bonus ball players must dance for the audience while trying to perform. The idea that the players should just be paid without doing anything has always been ridiculous. Without the fans, pool rooms, promoters, guys that donate to tourneys that can't win, backers, etc....the pool player would have NO means to income. And like I've always said, if pool isn't paying the bills then get another f#$%king job.

5) I think bonus ball missed the best draw it could possibly have in American pool by not securing SVB. If that meant a bigger salary then so be it, but he IS the draw in American pool and the ONLY American draw outside the US. All sports compensate their biggest stars better and that cat has made me a believer.

6) Lenny and Nathan, please just stop answering any negative feedback with negative responses. It's better just to sound appeasing and always positive instead of bashing others for their opinions, especially when it's heavy hitters in the pool industry such as Mark, Greg, or Jay (I need some rep from you Jay for including you in the heavy hitters, lol).

7) work with, not against those said heavy hitters. In the end, I think all sides want what is best for pool and even if that isn't the case, more can be gained on an individual entity standpoint by working with potential competitors in this situation.

You bring up some valid points.

FWIW, I agree with you about your thoughts on the Dancing Monkeys. Nobody should expect a handout. How the money breaks down in pool, what little of it there is, it just seems the players get the crumbs. Point in fact to your sparrow Photoshopped cartoon. :grin-square:

Believe it or not, Greg Sullivan really does want Bonus Ball to succeed. It's just the way things went down with the scheduling, well, it threw him a curve ball at the last minute. I'm sure he will feel better after the next 2 weeks is over with.

I don't get the fascination with the purple and orange balls, either, but time will tell how others feel about it. Apparently, it doesn't matter what we on the forum think about the game. It's targeting a different audience, if I am understanding what I have read correctly.

In the end, if Bonus Ball succeeds, everybody will be happy, and if it folds, it will pack up its gear and move on.

It will be interesting to see where the pool industry is a year from now.

 

[D_Lewis]

Nathan DuMoulin Darren Appleton, the players dont realize it yet,
but we're basically giving everyone a chance right now as an audition. Then when we start promotions and filming for TV in 2 weeks, we will use (almost exclusively) our top 3-4 guys.6 hours ago · Like


Apparently the players don't realize it's an audition, because it's top secret! lol

Anyway, just wanted to share this. Carry on. :thumbup:

Did you read every comment or just take one out of context?

He's talking about the commentators, not the players. Some people just like to try and start trouble.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Did you read every comment or just take one out of context?

He's talking about the commentators, not the players. Some people just like to try and start trouble.

I'm not trying to start trouble. It was unclear to me what the "audition" reference by Nathan was. I just went back and re-read it, and now realize I misinterpreted it. My bad, but it just wasn't that clear to me. I initially thought Nathan was saying they were going to televise only 3 to 4 players playing, not commentating. Here's all the comments below and thanks to you D_Lewis and Nathan for clearing this up.

Darren Appleton
new york pride v pittsburgh poison week 2 ..great commentary from scott frost.. him and jeremy great... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT0NqNLkRJM

Dave McColl New York vs Houston will be on You Tube in 42 mins.8 hours ago · Like..

Darren Appleton what the hell happen to aces pal..8 hours ago · Like..

Darren Appleton that kiamco a leg-end8 hours ago · Like..

Darren Appleton frost and jermey should commentate most matches pal.8 hours ago · Like · 2..

Nathan DuMoulin Darren Appleton, the players dont realize it yet, but we're basically giving everyone a chance right now as an audition. Then when we start promotions and filming for TV in 2 weeks, we will use (almost exclusively) our top 3-4 guys.

 

[watchez]

Again - Jeanette Lee brought a break even financially for the WPBA on TV. She gives any pool player the 6 ball in marketability and draw. I hope none of the BB pros are taking their salary and enrolling in a broadcasting class at Las Vega$ Community College.

 

[catpool9]

Bonus Ball

Here are a few random thoughts that I might as well throw out there since everyone else is voicing an opinion

1) Even with all of the negativity, I think that all of the talk and traffic about bonus ball on here can only be a positive. Some already like it, and the powers that be have an opportunity to change and adjust to fit some of those that don't if they do it properly.

2) The game itself blows. Maybe that's because from what I've seen of it, it pales in comparison to a good game of 8/9/10 ball or one pocket. Maybe if I studied the rule book for a few months and then played it I might change my tone.

3) I can't fault the players for riding this thing out til the end. It's really about what is best for the player and their families. That may or may not be bonus ball, but it's hard to turn down guaranteed money for a few hours of work if the logistics are right.

4) the whole "dancing monkey" thing puts me on tilt like only a couple of other things (slow drivers in the fast lane, getting screwed at the drive through). By god, if I offer someone $1000 bucks to dance in my front yard for my entertainment then dance monkey, dance.
All workers dance for their employer and in this case the bonus ball players must dance for the audience while trying to perform. The idea that the players should just be paid without doing anything has always been ridiculous. Without the fans, pool rooms, promoters, guys that donate to tourneys that can't win, backers, etc....the pool player would have NO means to income. And like I've always said, if pool isn't paying the bills then get another f#$%king job.

5) I think bonus ball missed the best draw it could possibly have in American pool by not securing SVB. If that meant a bigger salary then so be it, but he IS the draw in American pool and the ONLY American draw outside the US. All sports compensate their biggest stars better and that cat has made me a believer.

6) Lenny and Nathan, please just stop answering any negative feedback with negative responses. It's better just to sound appeasing and always positive instead of bashing others for their opinions, especially when it's heavy hitters in the pool industry such as Mark, Greg, or Jay (I need some rep from you Jay for including you in the heavy hitters, lol).

7) work with, not against those said heavy hitters. In the end, I think all sides want what is best for pool and even if that isn't the case, more can be gained on an individual entity standpoint by working with potential competitors in this situation.

I agree with your take 100%, Bonus Ball is the best thing for pool that has ever come along. If one can't see that then they are blinder than a damn bat and hard headed as a bull.

If you like pool/ want to learn the game and like watching Pro's play live once a week in the comfort of your home this is the game to be on board with.

Once Bonus Ball becomes popular and has a fan base behind it I do believe you'll began to see semi-pro and amateur league's forming and being played all across the USA, if that's where Bonus Ball wants to take it, it's going to be big!

If only one Budweiser,Miller, or Coors beer company got behind it just alittle, it would spread like wild fire, but I think it will anyway, and beside that it's a great game to play with lots of strategy in the game, it makes you think thats for sure.!


I wish nothing but the best for Bonus Ball because it is for the betterment of our game we all love, we all want pool to grow and get some recognition , well here's our chance for that to happen.


David Harcrow

 

[kittykat]

Nathan's production is bad. There needs to be so much more added. He's kidding himself if they think television will be all over his production with $$$$$. They might sell him some time or maybe trade him for some spots but they will never write him a check! After adding up the salaries of each player and taking a very good guess at production costs...I would say Chiborak is losing money faster than the Titanic was taking in water. I would say the hull is about to break and Nathan will be playing the violin as it sinks!

The game makes sense. I find it decent to watch, i understand the rules and I love the shoot-outs. The point scoring system is pretty cool but why add 3 points to the score for a win...that makes no sense to me or any of my friends!?

 

[JAM]

Nathan's production is bad. There needs to be so much more added. He's kidding himself if they think television will be all over his production with $$$$$. They might sell him some time or maybe trade him for some spots but they will never write him a check! After adding up the salaries of each player and taking a very good guess at production costs...I would say Chiborak is losing money faster than the Titanic was taking in water. I would say the hull is about to break and Nathan will be playing the violin as it sinks!

The game makes sense. I find it decent to watch, i understand the rules and I love the shoot-outs. The point scoring system is pretty cool but why add 3 points to the score for a win...that makes no sense to me or any of my friends!?

Tell me the truth. Are you Jesse Engel's girlfriend or Barry who used to be affilliated with Bonus Ball?

 

[Roger Long]

2) The game itself blows. Maybe that's because from what I've seen of it, it pales in comparison to a good game of 8/9/10 ball or one pocket. Maybe if I studied the rule book for a few months and then played it I might change my tone.

6) Lenny and Nathan, please just stop answering any negative feedback with negative responses. It's better just to sound appeasing and always positive instead of bashing others for their opinions, especially when it's heavy hitters in the pool industry such as Mark, Greg, or Jay (I need some rep from you Jay for including you in the heavy hitters, lol).

Vette,

I'm sure it's very difficult for Nathan and Lenny to always sound appeasing and positive when people make negative comments like "the game itself blows" before they have even given it a fair chance. It should be understandable if they get a little touchy over negative comments considering that they have been working very hard for over a year to try and make the WPBL a success. And I don't think either of them have been working that hard on the project because they need a paycheck. I believe both were doing just fine before Bonus Ball came along. I personally think they are doing it because they truly believe the game and the league can be very good for all of us.

Also, if you ask any of the WPBL players, you will be told by them that Bonus Ball is the toughest pool game they've ever played. And they really do love it. Now before you go thinking that those players are only saying good things about BB because they are being paid to do so, I will tell you that that isn't true. I have been told that it is in their signed player's agreement that they must refrain from saying bad things about the league and/or the other players, but I have also been personally assured that they have never been told, or coached, as to what to say concerning their opinions on the game.

The real key is to contact those involved with the WPBL - both management and players - and get your questions answered directly by them. It's not that hard to do. I have found all of them to be very approachable and open. Actually, the very best way to do it is to make a personal visit to their studio. Now I know that may not be feasible for some of you, but many people on these forums attend one or more of the large amateur league tournaments that happen in Vegas throughout the summer months, so it wouldn't take much time or effort to swing on by the WPBL studio and find out what's really going on there, rather than drawing conclusions from all of the biased comments that are made on these forums.

Roger

 

[Majic]

All the players can hop in the booth these first few weeks and get a chance to practice their commentary, and of course get paid in the process. But we're keeping notes on who is the best for the task, and based on that we'll select which guys are the best for when we do episodes for networks (we have a few scheduled already for week 4).

It's no real secret, but nor are we warning them in advance that we're paying close attention. It's better if they don't realize it's a sort of an audition process, that way they won't be as nervous and can get more comfortable in the booth.

So far so good, as we're very happy with literally everyone thus far. Scott and JJ are shoe ins, but who gets the remaining 1-3 spots is going to be tricky.

sounds like a fly by the seat of the pants operation to me. you guys need some real direction and quit BSn the public.

 

[billy]

Tell me the truth. Are you Jesse Engel's girlfriend or Barry who used to be affilliated with Bonus Ball?

thinking the latter

 

[lfigueroa]

Vette,

I'm sure it's very difficult for Nathan and Lenny to always sound appeasing and positive when people make negative comments like "the game itself blows" before they have even given it a fair chance. It should be understandable if they get a little touchy over negative comments considering that they have been working very hard for over a year to try and make the WPBL a success. And I don't think either of them have been working that hard on the project because they need a paycheck. I believe both were doing just fine before Bonus Ball came along. I personally think they are doing it because they truly believe the game and the league can be very good for all of us.

Also, if you ask any of the WPBL players, you will be told by them that Bonus Ball is the toughest pool game they've ever played. And they really do love it. Now before you go thinking that those players are only saying good things about BB because they are being paid to do so, I will tell you that that isn't true. I have been told that it is in their signed player's agreement that they must refrain from saying bad things about the league and/or the other players, but I have also been personally assured that they have never been told, or coached, as to what to say concerning their opinions on the game.

The real key is to contact those involved with the WPBL - both management and players - and get your questions answered directly by them. It's not that hard to do. I have found all of them to be very approachable and open. Actually, the very best way to do it is to make a personal visit to their studio. Now I know that may not be feasible for some of you, but many people on these forums attend one or more of the large amateur league tournaments that happen in Vegas throughout the summer months, so it wouldn't take much time or effort to swing on by the WPBL studio and find out what's really going on there, rather than drawing conclusions from all of the biased comments that are made on these forums.

Roger

If you're going to speak/represent your organization then *you must* be able to always be professional, and somethings (always), that means being appeasing and positive in the face of negativism (no matter how well deserved the negativity may be). By default, Nathan and Lenny are "out there." They should not be, but there they are, so they must suffer the slings and arrows that go with being the front men.

And big deal that BB is the toughest game the pros have played. Give anyone here a moment or two and they could tweak the rules of any game you'd care to name and make it tougher by any factor you'd like. That is not a valid criteria for accepting BB or making it watchable.

Lou Figueroa
or successful

 

[Roger Long]

And big deal that BB is the toughest game the pros have played. Give anyone here a moment or two and they could tweak the rules of any game you'd care to name and make it tougher by any factor you'd like. That is not a valid criteria for accepting BB or making it watchable.

Lou Figueroa
or successful

Lou,

Have you gone to the WPBL studio? Have you met with Larry Chiborak and Nathan? Have you talked with any of the BB players? Or have you done anything else that might serve to educate you on what the WPBL or Bonus Ball is really all about?

And just because you are the one saying "give anyone here a moment or two and they could tweak the rules of any game you'd care to name and make it tougher by any factor you'd like" is not valid criteria for accepting that as a fact.

I can tell by your past posts that you have had considerable experience in the area of public relations, but just because there have been written, and unwritten, rules used in you particular area of expertise, does not mean that people in other areas of business are obligated to play by those same rules.

Roger

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

PR guy lol !!

Lou,

Have you gone to the WPBL studio? Have you met with Larry Chiborak and Nathan? Have you talked with any of the BB players? Or have you done anything else that might serve to educate you on what the WPBL or Bonus Ball is really all about?

And just because you are the one saying "give anyone here a moment or two and they could tweak the rules of any game you'd care to name and make it tougher by any factor you'd like" is not valid criteria for accepting that as a fact.

I can tell by your past posts that you have had considerable experience in the area of public relations, but just because there have been written, and unwritten, rules used in you particular area of expertise, does not mean that people in other areas of business are obligated to play by those same rules.

Roger

I know Lou fairly well and I agree he would be a great PR guy, Would have been even better if he was the PR guy at the restaurant across from mine. That would make me sleep well knowing my restaurant would always be busy as long as Lou worked across the street as their PR guy. I couldn't think of any PR person but one that would be better, My ex wife.
Gary

 

[44Runner]

Glad to see that JJ is a shoe in because I enjoyed him in the booth as much as I enjoyed watching him beat up on Earl at the table.

I must say, having watched a couple of matches of BB, I am really starting to like it. I was very resistant at first but now that I have picked up on more rules and strategy I enjoy it better and it sure is nice to see some live professional pool.

Two negatives for me are the name (bonus ball was the best these marketing geniuses could come up with?) and it is difficult to play at home with friends.

Overall I have actually come to enjoy it. I think the team aspect is great and the game lends itself to team play. After a very reluctant start I am now a bonus ball fan. I never would have thought it possible.

 

[abbassi]

Watched some tonite. It was enjoyable. Liked the team aspect, and players mic_ed. JJ's commentary was excellent as usual. It would be nice if they get sponsorship and schedual the season better to allow the other promoters to continue some of the bigger events. Balls are tacky.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Have you gone to the WPBL studio? Have you met with Larry Chiborak and Nathan? Have you talked with any of the BB players? Or have you done anything else that might serve to educate you on what the WPBL or Bonus Ball is really all about?

And just because you are the one saying "give anyone here a moment or two and they could tweak the rules of any game you'd care to name and make it tougher by any factor you'd like" is not valid criteria for accepting that as a fact.

I can tell by your past posts that you have had considerable experience in the area of public relations, but just because there have been written, and unwritten, rules used in you particular area of expertise, does not mean that people in other areas of business are obligated to play by those same rules.

Roger

I'm not sure what your point is, Roger. Certainly you're not suggesting that I have to have gone to The White House, met with President Obama and Jay Carney, talked with members of Congress and spent time in Washington, D.C. to be educated about their policies, decisions, and programs.

And yes, my background is in PR. I don't know what yours is but I'd guess that whatever it is you know that there are certain core elements and principles that are true for the profession. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the basics of good PR. And what is happening in the case of BB is that they have guys who are completely untrained stepping up to the podium. Bad idea They're certainly not obligated to play by the same rules everyone in the professions knows, but then no one should be surprised by the ensuing train wreck they cause.

Lou Figueroa