My view on how low Pro payouts are..

Since were on the topic, people did go to high schools, and as painful as those memories are,

Im sure the pro players might have words of wisdom to bestow upon their neighborhoods which they think might be helpful.

From studying the BCA there is an overwhelming amount of charity work the players handle.

If I did buy a biographical program I wouldve had a reason to go up to the players at the tournaments I attended. Yea I wouldve been hounding a female player for autographs.

Those BEF winners would make more of it, methinks.
 
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justnum said:
the players need to really open up all avenues of income for themselves.

Tours are a big chunk, and if you ever did retail you know most of the money comes in seasonally.

I cant really say how they can diversify I could only guess that they have lots of experience and unique meetings which people can benefit from hearing about.

I was saw a few politicians give speeches and it really shows they cant relate to som people. At best they can provide points of agreement.

With the the touring pros traveling and meeting they have insights into things many of us can never know.
Click to expand...
pro players DO need to open avenues for them selves,BUT they dont.
WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IS......................join all forces that they have and start a world pool tour.but,that will never happen because they are waiting for another k.t. to come along and try and save the sport.most pro players do nothing to promote the sport.they just want to show up and get paid.case in hand.....earl strickland....love him or hate him..gets sponsered by cuetec for alot of money and long time,and after getting fired because he is an idiot ...turns around and says"how can i compete with this s.h.i.t i am using".
pro players have their destiny in their own hands,but unfortunately they will do nothing to advance their money,spotlight,crowd appeal,earnings,overall success,professionalism until they start working together to make this sport what it should be.no one is going to do it for them.
 
Pro billiards players often need to supplement incomes
By Jessie H. Nunery
Rocky Mount Telegram
Saturday, February 24, 2007

Allison Fisher is considered the Women's Professional Billiard Association's best player. Fisher, the top-ranked player on the WPBA Tour is also one of the most fortunate players.

Fisher earns enough money through the tour and sponsorships, and she hasn't had to hold down another profession on the side.

Some of her peers cannot say the same. The WPBA allows its players to earn winnings, but unless sponsors are there to ease some of the financial burdens, the money often isn't enough to live without another job.

"I was able to win enough to scrape by, but I had to keep winning to get them," Fisher, a 10-time player of the year, said of her endorsements.

Other players have not been as lucky. Debbie Schjodt, who played in her first tour event in 2001, is a bartender in an Orlando, Fla., pool hall. Megan Minerich, a five-year tour member, lives in Denver, Colo., and just recently quit dealing poker hands in smoky pool halls as a side job.

Minerich is still without a sponsor, but gave up her job because it was affecting her mentally and physically.

"It's not really a healthy lifestyle," Minerich said. "You had to be up to the wee hours of the morning. I'm making less now, but I'm definitely happier."

WPBA players must spend money to earn money. Hotel, airfare, car rental, tournament entry fee and food cost around $1,500 per tournament. Thinking about covering tournament costs while trying to beat a talented opponent can be overwhelming if players don't have the mental toughness.

"I just try and go out and play the game like it's supposed to be played," said Minerich, winner of the tour's 2006 most improved player award. "Pressure doesn't exist. It's something we make up in our heads."

Angel Paglia made her living as an accountant until 2004. Paglia became a full-time member of the tour with a victory over Fisher in February 2004 and is without a sponsor. Paglia remembers those days of crunching numbers, then practicing billiards – all of which allowed her just four hours of sleep on most nights.

"Never give up and be fierce, but humble," Paglia said of the advice her mother, Gail, gave her. "If you're not any of those things, you will get tired."

Even though Fisher is financially stable, she uses her spare time as an ambassador to the sports. Fisher teaches billiards seminars six weekends a year with fellow tour member Gerda Hofstatter. Fisher is interested in creating DVDs to teach the game as well.

"It's a great sport if it's marketed the right way," Fisher said.

Minerich is now tied for the 19th spot on the tour and believes this will be a great season for her, now that she isn't up late at night dealing poker hands.

"I have a lot of support from my coach, friends and family," Minerich said. "If you put yourself in a good position, good things will happen."
 
hey russ

you know russ this thing between me and you is not about money.its the fact that some people play light years better than you and you cant stand it.so to make yourself feel better you say things like , i make more money than you.their is people who have tons of heart and talent and they go out on the world stage and prove it to themselves and the world that they are gifted.then theres guys like you who put a table in their home and hide and tell themselves and others they can win big tourneys lol. you know what russ you can have all the money in the world and you still can not buy greatness.also i have a news flash for you .if you knew how much ive made over the last 10 years of loafing as you called it on the road and in tourney play ,lessons,dvd sell ,you would be sick.you know why because you would see i make as much or more than you and play light years better.lol p.s. im going to bed now and you know what you are gonna do,your going to set there and try to write something to make me feel inferior to you.but you cant you wanna know why .because i would not trade being me over being you in a million years.by for now wannabe
 
john schmidt said:
because i would not trade being me over being you in a million years.by for now wannabe
Click to expand...

Likewise, sir.

I will honestly say to you though, I do not envy you. We all have to reap what we've sown in regards to how we've prepared for our golden years.

John, I don't envy you. I pity you. Unless you find some way to market yourself better than you have done, or unless some super popular pool movie comes along, you are going to have to spend more and more to attend the overseas tournaments in order to make a living.

Yeah, you shoot straight now. You have maybe 10-15 years left where you can compete on a level with the top pros. What happens after that? I mean, seriously, man... You may seem happy go lucky now, but you most probably will marry a girl in the next few years.

If she has a baby, how are you going to support her and the child? If you say you are making a good living year to year, then okay, man.. But if you are making as much as me, then why on earth are you having to offer 50% of yourself in the U.S. Open????

In all honesty, I don't bear any ill willtowards you or any other pro. I just want you guys and gals to take charge of the choices you've made. If you're making money and living like a rock star, great. If you're not, and you're happy with that, that's great too. If you're not and you are not happy with it, I'm just saying you may want to reevaluate what you are going to want from life in ten years.

If you think I envy you or that I am not realistic about my potential, that is your choice. I know how much I improved with minimal practice time. Nothing close to the years you've put in. I have a fair idea of where I'd be with two full years of practice.. I think you give other players too much credit, honestly. A person or two in pm contact with me seem to agree that your emotions are what is holding you back. With your stroke, you are supposed to be winning a lot more tournaments.


Russ
 
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john schmidt said:
you know russ this thing between me and you is not about money.its the fact that some people play light years better than you and you cant stand it.so to make yourself feel better you say things like , i make more money than you.their is people who have tons of heart and talent and they go out on the world stage and prove it to themselves and the world that they are gifted.then theres guys like you who put a table in their home and hide and tell themselves and others they can win big tourneys lol. you know what russ you can have all the money in the world and you still can not buy greatness.also i have a news flash for you .if you knew how much ive made over the last 10 years of loafing as you called it on the road and in tourney play ,lessons,dvd sell ,you would be sick.you know why because you would see i make as much or more than you and play light years better.lol p.s. im going to bed now and you know what you are gonna do,your going to set there and try to write something to make me feel inferior to you.but you cant you wanna know why .because i would not trade being me over being you in a million years.by for now wannabe
Click to expand...

John, forget about it. Plain and simple, you know what's happening, and sadly, some speak about things they have absolutely no clue about.

Keith says hi!

JAM
 
Trash talkers are like dirty dishes no one wants to deal with them, but they are just there.

a trash talker implies that they said something. wink*
 
for the record I would have been hounding her I say.

Probably some senseless chatter they need to have programs at all major tourney events.

It wouldnt have led to anything but yea you know...

ok

she might have even laughed, maybe.

And I wouldve asked to take a picture with her, but those tables are partitioned by some pole or something.
 
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Russ Chewning said:
Likewise, sir.

I will honestly say to you though, I do not envy you. We all have to reap what we've sown in regards to how we've prepared for our golden years.

John, I don't envy you. I pity you. Unless you find some way to market yourself better than you have done, or unless some super popular pool movie comes along, you are going to have to spend more and more to attend the overseas tournaments in order to make a living.

Yeah, you shoot straight now. You have maybe 10-15 years left where you can compete on a level with the top pros. What happens after that? I mean, seriously, man... You may seem happy go lucky now, but you most probably will marry a girl in the next few years.

If she has a baby, how are you going to support her and the child? If you say you are making a good living year to year, then okay, man.. But if you are making as much as me, then why on earth are you having to offer 50% of yourself in the U.S. Open????

In all honesty, I don't bear any ill willtowards you or any other pro. I just want you guys and gals to take charge of the choices you've made. If you're making money and living like a rock star, great. If you're not, and you're happy with that, that's great too. If you're not and you are not happy with it, I'm just saying you may want to reevaluate what you are going to want from life in ten years.

If you think I envy you or that I am not realistic about my potential, that is your choice. I know how much I improved with minimal practice time. Nothing close to the years you've put in. I have a fair idea of where I'd be with two full years of practice.. I think you give other players too much credit, honestly. A person or two in pm contact with me seem to agree that your emotions are what is holding you back. With your stroke, you are supposed to be winning a lot more tournaments.


Russ
Click to expand...
With all due respect (which is none), you sir, are an a$$hole. I just felt that needed to be said....

John loves what he does, and is good at it - there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. So what if he isn't getting rich doing it. Some people actually have jobs they love but don't make a whole lot of money, such as teachers, policemen, pool room owners, nurses....

Your narrowmindedness is astounding. You think because you make money that everybody needs to follow in your footsteps? Can you be more egotistical? As the great and powerful wizard of AZ, please shed some more light on how everyone else should be living - you seem to have everything figured out. Or maybe you should just STFU.

You obviously think you're an educated man, so I'm sure you've read the following poem. Do you know what it means?

The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

-djb
 
DoomCue said:
With all due respect (which is none), you sir, are an a$$hole. I just felt that needed to be said....

John loves what he does, and is good at it - there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. So what if he isn't getting rich doing it. Some people actually have jobs they love but don't make a whole lot of money, such as teachers, policemen, pool room owners, nurses....

Your narrowmindedness is astounding. You think because you make money that everybody needs to follow in your footsteps? Can you be more egotistical? As the great and powerful wizard of AZ, please shed some more light on how everyone else should be living - you seem to have everything figured out. Or maybe you should just STFU.

You obviously think you're an educated man, so I'm sure you've read the following poem. Do you know what it means?

The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

-djb
Click to expand...

Well put... and with a great reference by a wonderful writer. Having an education is great, but some of the dumbest people I know have college degrees. And some of the smartest people I know have no education at all.

Life is a choice and is mostly what we make of it (although there are some people who are definitely dealt a bad hand from birth). In the end, we must be happy with ourselves. If we're not, then we won't be happy with anything else. Russ and John are on opposite ends of the spectrum. But from what I can see by their posts, one is much happier than the other (I'm sure we can figure out who).

Perhaps it is Russ who needs to re-evaluate his choices in life as criticizing pro pool players and voicing his dissatisfaction with a climate that he really has nothing to do with seems "displaced".
 
Russ Chewning said:
I have ZERO sympathy for the players out there who have not been able to make a living even though they are in the top 20. It's a GAME. I think ALL games should be played for the love of the game. Yes, Basketball, baseball, soccer, football, golf, pool, etc. If that were true, we wouldn't have all the high dollar production values, or we might not be able to see every NBA game the whole season.. Oh boo-hoo, that would be a shame.
Click to expand...

It is just one opinion that it's "just a GAME", one that in no way can be said to be a fact except for you individually. For you (and the far majority of people who play) it may be just a game. But it is far more than that for some people, and you aren't in a position to tell them it's merely a game that is not a legitimate career. Why is this a less valid "job" than trading on the stockmarket or working an 8-5 job? In some people's views, these are all just other types of 'games' as well. You can be cynical about it being only a game but anyone can be cynical about any career they choose to be cynical about.

What you don't realize is that you cannot play 'for the love of the game' when you want to play the game so much yet you cannot make ends meet with it. I think the people who really love it play it enough that they need to be making money with it. This is not selling out, or playing for something other than the love of the game. It is just totally false to think that you do not love the game if you prefer playing for money.
 
professional pool players probably earn more than pro lacrosse players, or pro curlers, or pro beach volley ball. These folks play the game for the love of the game. They have figured out how to get paid doing something they love.
I have read many of Russ' posts, and while we disagree on many topics, I will say he sounds like he loves the work he is doing. Why can't we leave it at that?
The pro athletes that make the most money seem to be the ones on team sports, and those at greatest risk for injury or death. The great ones all make more from endorsements than players money.
When I was younger I dreamed of being a professional skier, living somewhere in CO where I could water ski in the morning and snow ski in the afternoon. If I was smart enough to figure out how to make this dream pay my way, I would be living in CO right now.... getting ready to hit the slopes instead of typing this.
More power to you John and those who asspire to be like you. I would only hope that you are making some of those earnings work for your future security.

McCue Banger McCue
 
Let's compare.

John is a happy pool player who is well liked by pool fans and peers.
He is living his life in a way that makes him happy. For the record, John, I am jealous.

Russ is a prime example of misuse of government spending. He is an overpaid AV geek with a very large head.
 
A little insight ....

Well, let me first say, that my life, if written up in a book, would be a best seller, not because of Pool, but just because of all the funny and not-so-funny situations and experiences I have had.

I have been 'single' many times in my life, and am currently so. I have played Pool for 45 years, and always gambled, small and large (depends if you call $3,500 a set large or not). I have been on disbility for a little over 10 years, and only go play Pool on Friday and Saturday nights in tournaments, and for money action. Not much action around anymore, and I do not have the extra money to gamble large like I used to when I worked. I can no longer get a job even though I have much education, degrees, or even a part time job locally because I am overqualified as they tell me, plus this all started when I reached 50. No one wants to hire anyone over 50 nowdays. Shooting Pool is my PART TIME JOB. I have to subsidize my income with Pool money.

I have been married 4 times to 3 women (yes, I married one twice), and it is not as bad as it might sound on the surface. Some of the best Pool I ever shot was when I was married, working 54 hours a week, so lets dispel
that age old rumor that you can not shoot good Pool because you work all week. It is more about how you are physically, emotionally, and intellectually at the time, and how you approach playing the sport.
I might add that all my divorces had absolutely nothing to do with Pool, it was never an issue. My family always came first when I was married.

I never did make 'big' money, but I made a decent living as a Sr. Software Engineer and a Sr. Manufacturing Systems Analyst. I worked for Learjet for 18.5 years, was part of the skeleton crew during that time, and one day, was dropped like a hot potato during a downsizing, thanks to the mindset of the newly driven executives of Bombardier, which acquired Learjet.

Pool is a hard life, one with many bumps along the way, one that is risky, but here I am again, and it is still a major factor in my life, a redeeming one, I don't think, but an ever present one. This is ironic in so many ways, because when I was 23, I went through an agonizing period trying to decide to be a pro, or going ahead with my Education, and get a job.
The job route has turned out to be a bittersweet ending. So, here I sit with all my education looking for home based internet businesses, which are mostly misrepresented or have underlying costs to them that you don't find out about until it is too late.

There were many times when I was married, with all the big payments and responsibilities when I felt hassled, pinned in, and sort of destined to a life
that I did not entirely choose. What did I learn - Life is about passion, do what you like and that interest you, no matter what it is, pursue it with all your heart. It will have good and bad to it, but you will handle those things better if it is something you love.

Whether you pursue Pool as an occupation or as a hobby doesn't matter, just do it with your all. I have often said I don't know whether I chose Pool or it chose me, but it has been around most of my life and still is, and I still love the sport. I have met and made friends with all kinds of people, educated or not, and I would not trade that for anything.

Follow your passions, whatever they may be, and life will be good for you.
And walk with God in your heart.
 
Russ,

You're evidently a knowledgeable player, and I've agreed with many of your posts in the past. However, IMHO, you're way out of line on this one. It is not for us to judge how other people live, as we all suffer from shortcomings in one area or another. Furthermore, the path that one chooses to follow through this life is his own, and if he or she pursues it with diligence and integrity that is all that anyone can ask. The worth of someone's chosen career path cannot be measured by dollars. What makes the work of a stockbroker, for instance, more important than that of someone who molds young minds?

On another point, your contention that no one should be paid large sums to "play a game" is, IMHO, both economically and socially unsound. The fact is that play is a vital component in human culture. In every advanced society, athletic competition and art have been proven to be arenas where the human spirit is put on display. Artists and athletes occupy an important place in any society, and they deserve to be compensated as such.

As far as pool goes, you should remember that pool in the U.S. has not always been in the degraded condition that it is now. During the Civil War, for example, news of billiards championship matches often took pride of place in newspaper coverage over news of the war; and it is known that Ralph Greenleaf made more money that the President, and that his fame exceeded that of most other sports figures of his time. In the present day, pool players enjoy the esteem of their countrymen in nations such as the Phillipines, Taiwan, Aruba, and many other places that we can name. Does this mean that American pool players are less noble or valuable than their counterparts in other countries because they are not as respected here at home?

As a a student and practitioner of jazz, I am all too aware that cultural giants like Charlie Parker, Dexter Gordon, and countless others were reviled and poorly paid in their own country, but received acclaim and financial rewards overseas. Today they are regarded as icons and musical geniuses in the same country that made it impossible for them to be rewarded for the talent, hard work and creativity that they brought to their craft. It is painful to see pool players similarly reviling their own.

Don't hate on those who have chosen to take risks that most of us would not in order to pursue a beautiful and elegant sport that has a great tradition. They work no less at their profession than you do at yours, and we should honor them and raise them up instead of casting them down.
 
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thanks guys

for backing me up with this russ know it all.i dont type fast or well enough to explain how things work to him ,so i am pleased that you guys did it for me.for the record i would get on here and chat about pool all day with everybody on here ,problem is i cant type,second problem i usually get attacked by people like russ.you know when im at dinner and such with all the guys on tour ,we talk about this website .you know what every body says.they say dont type a word ,youll get hammered by people like russ.you know what guys like him always say to get the last word,i make more money than you.well russ theres people who make more than you that does not make you some kind of loser you know.im just doing the best i can in life,im no better or worse than anybody else.lets just all have fun and get along .
 
John ....

john schmidt said:
for backing me up with this russ know it all.i dont type fast or well enough to explain how things work to him ,so i am pleased that you guys did it for me.for the record i would get on here and chat about pool all day with everybody on here ,problem is i cant type,second problem i usually get attacked by people like russ.you know when im at dinner and such with all the guys on tour ,we talk about this website .you know what every body says.they say dont type a word ,youll get hammered by people like russ.you know what guys like him always say to get the last word,i make more money than you.well russ theres people who make more than you that does not make you some kind of loser you know.im just doing the best i can in life,im no better or worse than anybody else.lets just all have fun and get along .
Click to expand...

You are a class act, and I, for one, would be proud to have you as a friend.
 
mantis99 said:
JCIN,
I do not think the point is that a 40 hour work person is happier than a traveling pool player.
Click to expand...

Well, after seeing the way this thread has went (exactly as it had to), looks like I did see the point.

Thanks for the help though.
 
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