My wrap Jig

carguy said:
You know, these wrap fixtures are pretty simple devices. They do a very simple job. It's not particularly amazing that they all resemble each other.
Each one trys to "improve" on it's immediate predecessor in some small way.
As I believe someone once said previously, it's really, really not rocket science. In the grand scheme of things, these pool cues we build are pretty simple machines. Highly nuanced, but simple.

Myself, I use the Unique Products wrap fixture. I have other equipment by this same company. I love it...it's a nice step up in speed from the steel straight edge, clamps and scalpel I used to use. The results are similar.
And I could buy with confidence. No worries: their products work.

If I had not had the money for the Unique fixture I would have made a similar one myself or gone without one, which is not really such a great hardship.

If I made one it would no doubt go through a development period where I thrashed about refining the design 'til it worked to my satisfaction. But since the job it does is so elementary, I have no doubt that mine would look and work similarly to all the other ones, which all look and work a great deal like each other.

Robin Snyder
Click to expand...

They resemble the De Angelo imo. There are only two wrap jigs that enjoyed commercial success afaik. The original De Angelo and the Unique's Magic Wrap Fixture.
The first leather wrapping jig ( outside of just a straight bar ) I know of was the one designed by Ned Morris and his partner. My late mentor made one for himself as it was not really sold commercially. It was as simple as a straight bar on a hinge and the seam was cut in overlap manner.
The De Angelo and Unique's fixtures work really well.
They are missing least 3 elements I'd eventually want in a wrap jig.
I'm in a bind if I want a portable jig or just a fixture locked on a metal lathe.
Locked-on to a metal lathe has some advantages. The only advantage a portable one is you can take it somewhere and do wraps on the spot.
 
I for one would like to be able to cut the wrap completely independent of the cue.

I don't like putting the cue on the lathe, then in the fixture, then on the lathe, etc.

I'd like to cut the wrap, glue it and the cue up, install the wrap and press it out and finish it up.

The jigs work great, they just take too long.
 
RBC said:
I for one would like to be able to cut the wrap completely independent of the cue.

I don't like putting the cue on the lathe, then in the fixture, then on the lathe, etc.

I'd like to cut the wrap, glue it and the cue up, install the wrap and press it out and finish it up.

The jigs work great, they just take too long.
Click to expand...

The idea is tempting - have you tried it? Armed with a template and
a rudimentary knowledge of geometry, it shouldn't be all that hard to do.

IMHO - most problems would come from the fact that real cues in the
real world are not perfect. Minnor variations along the length of the
undercut are always going to be a problem.

So far, I am still of the opinion than no matter how perfect you can cut
a leather blank, you are still going to need to 'hand fit' it to a specific cue.
Exactly how that fitting needs to be acomplished also depends on the
leather used.

And so on...

Dale
 
Royce, if your wrap groove is identical on all your new cues than you may be on to something. How about cutting a wrap and just spot gluing it in place before you finish cut the seem in your fixture. Remove the wrap, draw the perfect template from the wrap, and bingo.
 
DanO said:
Royce, if your wrap groove is identical on all your new cues than you may be on to something. How about cutting a wrap and just spot gluing it in place before you finish cut the seem in your fixture. Remove the wrap, draw the perfect template from the wrap, and bingo.
Click to expand...

It might work for straight angle handles.
Not to sure on compound and curved handles.
 
We're waiting for the next jig Joseph, whats the hold up?
I hear there is one in the making. Care to fill us in on it.
 
DanO said:
Royce, if your wrap groove is identical on all your new cues than you may be on to something. How about cutting a wrap and just spot gluing it in place before you finish cut the seem in your fixture. Remove the wrap, draw the perfect template from the wrap, and bingo.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried it yet.

We really don't do too many leather's right now. But I'm sure we will be adding more leather to the lineup soon and it would be nice to trim all sides with a flat template and have it fit. I think leather is more forgiving than most cuemakers think.

I've also had an idea on how to make an adjustable jig to do the same thing. Theoretically, it should work. You just need the length and 2 diameters. The jig would be tricky though, and you'd need some good math too.

Joey, you may be right about the compound handles, but I'd have to give it a try. I think the leather can be stretched and massaged to fit pretty well. so it might not be that tough.
 
In my early years of doing leather I tried wrapping the cue with paper. Run tape over it a few times and cut a seam down the paper and then lay that on top of a leather blank and cut out a piece. The results were very so so. I have my doubts about about anyone being happy cutting to size then installing. If you have medium stretch leather it works okay. But too stiff or too stretchy and you are in for a nightmare. I think you will find most leather a lot less forgiving than you might think. But with exact same wrap groove every time and a perfect template it might work out better than my paper template method. I know a cuemaker who measured the DeAngelo template length and set up his cues to all have a wrap groove that was a perfect match to the ends of the template. Now that worked out real fast for him. No testing lengths. I can see that working good, and then cutting the seam is no big deal. You never have to remove the cue from the lathe with the jig I build for cutting the seam. Use a little thin double sided tape and you are in business holding each half of the seam down independantly.
 
RBC said:
I haven't tried it yet.

We really don't do too many leather's right now. But I'm sure we will be adding more leather to the lineup soon and it would be nice to trim all sides with a flat template and have it fit. I think leather is more forgiving than most cuemakers think.

I've also had an idea on how to make an adjustable jig to do the same thing. Theoretically, it should work. You just need the length and 2 diameters. The jig would be tricky though, and you'd need some good math too.

Joey, you may be right about the compound handles, but I'd have to give it a try. I think the leather can be stretched and massaged to fit pretty well. so it might not be that tough.
Click to expand...

Some leather can be worked, but then you are back to hand fitting,
and since it seems time is an important consideration, you might be
back to the old square one.

Adjustable jig for 2 diameters and the length - no math involved, just
make 2 jigs that adjust, one for length, one for width.

Dale
 
Ah yes, the taper geometry of a cue.
Why is everyone afraid of the math??
It's relatively easy and it's there to help you if you understand it.
I will advise you in advance though that if the taper of a cue changes, so do it's diameters in the wrap groove.
A .840"x1.240" cue will have different diams. in the wrap groove than a .815"x1.30" cue.
So will the concave & convex arcs change at the top & bottom of the groove.
The length is simple, just measure it.

The equation for finding the width of the wrap at top & bottom of the groove is pretty simple.
pi x dia = circumference. That circumference, when layed-out flat, is the width of the wrap, top & bottom respectfully.
The arcs are a different story. They are totally dependent on the taper of the cue.
Plot the taper of the cue so that the two sides of the taper converge. That's the center of an imaginary circle.
Let's call it zero. The length from zero to the top of the wrap-groove is the radius of one of your imaginary circles.
I say 'one' of your imaginary circles because there will be two. One inside the other and concentric to it.
You could use a very large compass to scribe the arc(s) on your leather or use a string & pencil.
Peg one end of the string at 'zero'. Whatever the radius is of your inner circle is also where you will attach
the pencil along the length of the string. Draw your arc near the top of the leather.
You now have the top arc for that particular cue.
Do the same thing to find the arc for the bottom of the wrap-groove.
The radius of the larger circle is the same as the inner circle plus the length of the wrap-groove.
Scribe or pencil the arc on the leather for the bottom of wrap-groove arc and you're done.
Cut the leather on the arcs and it should fit perfectly in your w/groove.

There are a few caveats to this procedure however. One biggie is that not all cues are of the same diameters.
Nor is the wrap always placed in the same position on the cue. You would have to re-calculate for both of these variables.
Here's what the makers of the wrap templates would prefer that you didn't know.
The templates that they sell and that you probably use are based on the dimensions of one particular cue.
If the dimensions change, so should the template. The variables regarding varying dimensions and wrap location are infinite.
That's one of the drawbacks to the adjustable templates that I've seen offered.
Their lengths can be adjusted but the radius in their arcs stay the same.

Here's why you shouldn't be so quick to demand your money back. You've probably wrapped 100 different cues using that
template and everything has turned-out fine. They turned-out fine because your leather has some stretch/give to it.
You hand-fit your ends (and your seam) and the leather complys. This is what Royce was suggesting when he said "massaging".

BTW, you can make your own template using the instructions given above for cutting the leather.
I would suggest the mtrl. be stainless steel as opposed to plastic or aluminum.

Joey brought up the question of compound tapers in the handle/butt of a cue.
Of all the cues I've seen with a compound taper, the change of the angle/taper doesn't happen within the w/groove.
It happens at the bottom of the forearm. The taper within the w/groove is constant.

PS. Another variable, that I neglected to mention, is the thickness of your leather.
This could require modifying the w/groove to accommodate it's thickness.
Also, when measuring your diameters, it may prove to be more accurate if you where
to measure the actual dia. of the finished cue at the bottom of the forearm rather
than the lowest point at the top of the w/groove.
This should compensate for the thickness of the wrap assuming you've set the depth correctly.
Same for the bottom of the w/groove. Don't measure the w/groove itself, measure the top of the butt-sleeve.
This mod will automatically account for the thickness of the wrap.

HTHs & May The Spirit of the Season be With You,

KJ
 
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Ok here is the deal I am in the process of building a 5 in 1 fixture. Without removing the cue from the fixture.
Here is it what it will do.
1) Linen wraps
2) Leather wraps
3) Straight line cut for the seam in the leather
4) Sanding
5) Finishing

Thanks
Dave


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
KJ Cues said:
Ah yes, the taper geometry of a cue.
Why is everyone afraid of the math??
It's relatively easy and it's there to help you if you understand it.
I will advise you in advance though that if the taper of a cue changes, so do it's diameters in the wrap groove.
A .840"x1.240" cue will have different diams. in the wrap groove than a .815"x1.30" cue.
So will the concave & convex arcs change at the top & bottom of the groove.
The length is simple, just measure it.

The equation for finding the width of the wrap at top & bottom of the groove is pretty simple.
pi x dia = circumference. That circumference, when layed-out flat, is the width of the wrap, top & bottom respectfully.
The arcs are a different story. They are totally dependent on the taper of the cue.
Plot the taper of the cue so that the two sides of the taper converge. That's the center of an imaginary circle.
Let's call it zero. The length from zero to the top of the wrap-groove is the radius of one of your imaginary circles.
I say 'one' of your imaginary circles because there will be two. One inside the other and concentric to it.
You could use a very large compass to scribe the arc(s) on your leather or use a string & pencil.
Peg one end of the string at 'zero'. Whatever the radius is of your inner circle is also where you will attach
the pencil along the length of the string. Draw your arc near the top of the leather.
You now have the top arc for that particular cue.
Do the same thing to find the arc for the bottom of the wrap-groove.
The radius of the larger circle is the same as the inner circle plus the length of the wrap-groove.
Scribe or pencil the arc on the leather for the bottom of wrap-groove arc and you're done.
Cut the leather on the arcs and it should fit perfectly in your w/groove.

There are a few caveats to this procedure however. One biggie is that not all cues are of the same diameters.
Nor is the wrap always placed in the same position on the cue. You would have to re-calculate for both of these variables.
Here's what the makers of the wrap templates would prefer that you didn't know.
The templates that they sell and that you probably use are based on the dimensions of one particular cue.
If the dimensions change, so should the template. The variables regarding varying dimensions and wrap location are infinite.
That's one of the drawbacks to the adjustable templates that I've seen offered.
Their lengths can be adjusted but the radius in their arcs stay the same.

Here's why you shouldn't be so quick to demand your money back. You've probably wrapped 100 different cues using that
template and everything has turned-out fine. They turned-out fine because your leather has some stretch/give to it.
You hand-fit your ends (and your seam) and the leather complys. This is what Royce was suggesting when he said "massaging".

BTW, you can make your own template using the instructions given above for cutting the leather.
I would suggest the mtrl. be stainless steel as opposed to plastic or aluminum.

Joey brought up the question of compound tapers in the handle/butt of a cue.
Of all the cues I've seen with a compound taper, the change of the angle/taper doesn't happen within the w/groove.
It happens at the bottom of the forearm. The taper within the w/groove is constant.

PS. Another variable, that I neglected to mention, is the thickness of your leather.
This could require modifying the w/groove to accommodate it's thickness.
Also, when measuring your diameters, it may prove to be more accurate if you where
to measure the actual dia. of the finished cue at the bottom of the forearm rather
than the lowest point at the top of the w/groove.
This should compensate for the thickness of the wrap assuming you've set the depth correctly.
Same for the bottom of the w/groove. Don't measure the w/groove itself, measure the top of the butt-sleeve.
This mod will automatically account for the thickness of the wrap.

HTHs & May The Spirit of the Season be With You,

KJ
Click to expand...


Nice post KJ
Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Whether we realize it or not, we all massage the leather at the seam. Think about it, as KJ mentioned the circumference at the bottom of the groove is smaller than that at the top of the wrap or forearm/buttsleeve. Theoretically, we would need to cut the leather seams at a slight angle to accommodate this, but we don't. So, we're actually compressing the inside edge of the seam to match up with the top surface of the wrap.

Merry Christmas to all!
 
Dave, do you plan a double cut (for each side of the leather seam) or a single cut (overlap the leather)?
 
DavesCueRepair said:
Double cut one on ea side

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

I built one 20 years ago using a spin-indexer for the head-stock and a single hinged device with a metal straight edge. IIRC about 2 degrees shift worked out perfectly to use the same straight edge to cut both flaps.

Sherm
 
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