Need help with 8-ball break on the bar box.

mattman

mattman

Registered User
Silver Member
Here's the deal. I have a GCI at home and practice a lot. When friends come by, combined with playing with the wife, I get to practice my break:D . I break pretty good and most generally control the CB well and almost never knock the CB off the table.

Here's the problem. League started 5 weeks ago. I am play fairly well, won 18 out 20 games. Out of those 20 games, I broke 10 times. Out of those 10 times I broke, I have knocked the CB off the table maybe 3 or 4 times....not good percentages. The CB goes up in the air and usually either bounces on the table and then off, or strikes another ball on the way down and bounces off the table. It has always been near the center of the table when it flies off, so I am fairly certain that I am hitting the first ball dead on. I usually break straight down the middle and use the rail as a bridge. I get better breaks this way, vs on the head spot. The CB is about 8"-10" off the rail. Tip position is aimed just a hair below center.

Do you think either I am just hitting it too hard and/or because the balls are dirty they stick more? Do you usually slow down your break on the bar boxes?

At home, on my 9ft table, I seldem see whitey jump off the table, let alone land on the floor. And when it does happen, it's usually because I fail to hit the head ball square.

Any advice?
Mattman
 
mattman said:
Here's the deal. I have a GCI at home and practice a lot. When friends come by, combined with playing with the wife, I get to practice my break:D . I break pretty good and most generally control the CB well and almost never knock the CB off the table.

Here's the problem. League started 5 weeks ago. I am play fairly well, won 18 out 20 games. Out of those 20 games, I broke 10 times. Out of those 10 times I broke, I have knocked the CB off the table maybe 3 or 4 times....not good percentages. The CB goes up in the air and usually either bounces on the table and then off, or strikes another ball on the way down and bounces off the table. It has always been near the center of the table when it flies off, so I am fairly certain that I am hitting the first ball dead on. I usually break straight down the middle and use the rail as a bridge. I get better breaks this way, vs on the head spot. The CB is about 8"-10" off the rail. Tip position is aimed just a hair below center.

Do you think either I am just hitting it too hard and/or because the balls are dirty they stick more? Do you usually slow down your break on the bar boxes?

At home, on my 9ft table, I seldem see whitey jump off the table, let alone land on the floor. And when it does happen, it's usually because I fail to hit the head ball square.

Any advice?
Mattman
Click to expand...

I can't say this works with any certainty but try following through more. I think, when breaking, people with shorter follow-throughs get a little hop going.
 
I've found a lot of people who play somewhat different when just playing with friends, etc., vs. when they're playing league, especially on a team. People get in a different mental space - it's competitive, and they don't want to let their team down.

Maybe that's what's going on with you? You're breaking a bit different in league than you do just knocking'em around on your home table, and you're just not noticing it going on?

Have a league teammate come over to your house, and shoot around with him/her for a while - and ask them to observe how you're playing. Then have them watch you the same way your next league night. See if they notice anything different.
 
I too practice on a Gold Crown and knock the CB off the table on a bar box. Seems to me that it is because I shoot a little below center on the GC and this helps me stop the CB in the middle of the table. I remember reading someplace that this type of hit actually floats the CB off the table. Therefore, I am learning that on a Bar box I need to hit just barely below center on the CB.

I was playing on a 7' Diamond this afternoon for about two hours and the CB never left the table. So perhaps your problem is similar to mine. You do not need to hit as low on the CB on a bar box.


I also do not try to hit the CB as hard on a barbox and use about 70% of what I use on the GC.
 
Try moving the cue ball at it's start point back or foward two or three inches. Most breaks that have power behind them will slightly lift off the table on the way to the stack. You may need to change the timing of when it comes back down.

This could be why it's different on the bigger table.
 
My advice would be to focus on leveling your cue a bit more on your breaks on the bar box... get it as level as possible. Cue balls flying off the table on the break is usually indicative of the cue ball being slightly airborne at the time of impact... due to an unwanted downward component during the break stroke.
 
I will try slowing down my break first. If this doesn't work, then I will position the CB in different location. I use to break from the side and got good breaks and kept the CB on the table, but I lost a little control of the CB. In response to ScottW, I do play different when playing with friends and the wife, but my break is just as serious.

Thanks,
Mattman
 
My experience was similar

I've had similar issues in the past and figured it out this way:
1) Break from the rail, CB 8-10" slightly below center will loft the cue ball if you hit with power at all. On the 9' GC the cueball has enough distance to land before it strikes the headball.
2) Shorter distance on the bar box might mean that the same stroke and power doesn't let the cueball land before striking the rack causing a greater percentages of flyers.
3) I didn't decrease power to fix my problem, I pushed the cueball to the headstring and flattened my stroke, reducing the loft and have not jumped off the bar box since.

I have since swithced to the same break on larger tables with equal success.

Good luck!
Steve
 
My favorite barbox 8-ball break is to hit the second ball from as close to the line & the rail as you can get with low outside english. I always check the rack to see which way it is tilted, then hit whichever 2nd ball I can see the most of. With the right tilt, the 8 heads towards the opposite side pocket pretty consistently, and will go in about 10% of the time.
 
I would say cigardave is correct about the level cue. This also happened to me some time ago. I think the cloth has a lot to do with it. A somewhat slower cloth and elevated cue would tend to make the cue ball hop on a break shot.
 
Runnin8 said:
I've had similar issues in the past and figured it out this way:
1) Break from the rail, CB 8-10" slightly below center will loft the cue ball if you hit with power at all. On the 9' GC the cueball has enough distance to land before it strikes the headball.
2) Shorter distance on the bar box might mean that the same stroke and power doesn't let the cueball land before striking the rack causing a greater percentages of flyers.
3) I didn't decrease power to fix my problem, I pushed the cueball to the headstring and flattened my stroke, reducing the loft and have not jumped off the bar box since.

I have since swithced to the same break on larger tables with equal success.

Good luck!
Steve
Click to expand...
I think this anaylsis is the best of what is probably happening. I have tried breaking from the headspot, but seem to lose power....at least on my 9 footer.

Cuaba, in my league the 8 ball on the break doesn't mean jack crap. You do get noted for it in the stats, but it's more of a hinder as when you do make the 8 on the break, you have to put another .75 cents in the table and get the option of spotting the 8 or re-racking and re-breaking.
 
Runnin8 said:
Here's something that helped me with power from the headstring. The guy can flat hit'em!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

Steve
Click to expand...
Yeah....I seen it about 3 times or more. The opening breaks always put a little grin on my face. On occasion I can get 8 ball breaks with spreads like those, but not nearly as consistent as I would like.

I just had a thought. I wonder if I could (and I don't know why not) put the rack of balls closer to the CB (on my 9 footer) to simulate a bar box break. I can do the math, but I forget what the playing surface of barbox is.....44" X 88"?
 
Here it is:
It is a barbox,
Go to the center'ish of the table and back off on the power a bit. Play it as a firm-hard stop shot.

You are going to make at least one and shape isnt that much of a concern on a barbox.

I just read back up the comments section and I will tell you that if you have a strong brek with run out ability, you dont need to try the side 8-ball break rack. BREAK FROM THE "D".
 
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That is a killer break Colin has. That was his own table. Could it be that he has a different kind of high bebound rails on it? How did he break on the IPT tables? Did anyone watch him break there? If he could spread the balls close to that on an IPT table I have to think it's best break for making and spreading balls on a 9 footer that I ever saw. Johnnyt
 
mattman said:
Yeah....I seen it about 3 times or more. The opening breaks always put a little grin on my face. On occasion I can get 8 ball breaks with spreads like those, but not nearly as consistent as I would like.

I just had a thought. I wonder if I could (and I don't know why not) put the rack of balls closer to the CB (on my 9 footer) to simulate a bar box break. I can do the math, but I forget what the playing surface of barbox is.....44" X 88"?
Click to expand...

The 7' bar boxes are 39"x78" so 39" is your number, compared to 50" on your GC.

I'm curious how it turns out.
 
Breaking

One little thing I will mention that I've noticed around here locally. It seems that a lot of people want to really crush the balls on a bar box. When they break the balls, they have a tendency to stroke through the cue ball in an upward fashion, thereby sending the cue ball airborne.

I suggest to those who knock the ball off the table, to pick a spot beyond the cue ball. Then make sure that their cue stick goes straight forward towards that spot. This helps to eliminate the cue from going in an upward motion. Seems to help.You might want to try this.

Other than that, I would start out softer and make sure you are controling whitey, then increase your speed as you go. Couple of weeks and you will have it under control for the rest of the session.

Good Luck
 
Runnin8 said:
The 7' bar boxes are 39"x78" so 39" is your number, compared to 50" on your GC.

I'm curious how it turns out.
Click to expand...

Are you sure?

Good Luck
 
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