If this is true I hope someone starts another Women's Tour. Like the men, the women will go where the money can be made. A big bonus whould be a tour well run for the players. I know one person that fits that bill. Johnnyt
New Board Members for the WPBA?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
If this is true I hope someone starts another Women's Tour. Like the men, the women will go where the money can be made. A big bonus whould be a tour well run for the players. I know one person that fits that bill. Johnnyt
I smell politics.
I guess some folks are the new kids on the block. Welcome to pool in the United States of America. This is the way it is. You can fight it, write about it, be pissed off about it, but, in the end, nobody gives a hoot.
I have a great deal of respect for the WPBA. The UPA, the men's organization, died, thanks to some egg giving another egg with absolutely no experience the power to be the governing body of professional pool.
I wish the WPBA all the best. I hope they survive these tough economic times.
Remind me to relay the story about how the vote was done for the BCA's HOF committee when Earl won the popular vote by a landslide but was passed over once again that year.
This, my friends, is pool, American style.
So because that is the way it has always been we should accept it ?
I reject that notion. I do give a "hoot". Perhaps the reason things have always been the way they are is that very attitude of "thats just the way it is". We get the game we deserve.
I too have a great deal of respect for what the WPBA has built over the years, they are one of the best things going in American pool and I have many friends who either play or desire to play in WPBA events. When people stop asking questions is when the WPBA needs to be very worried because that means people just don't care anymore.
I honestly don't know if Mark getting on the board would have any real effect. That isn't my point. It does not matter who it was. The point is that if a sponsor can control who is in a leadership position of a non profit organization then I would just like to know that is the rules we are playing by.
If that's the case then the WPBA is for sale and the question just becomes how much? Which may not even be a bad thing.
As far as the new kids thing, if that was a shot at me I have been around pool off and on for twenty years and have knowledge of businesses that make pool look squeaky clean in comparison not to mention extremely small potatoes money wise. It doesn't shock or outrage me that political moves are used, I expect it. That doesn't mean I won't ask questions when they happen.
The WPBA is in a bad spot right now. They IMO are vulnerable. If a sponsor is leveraging this position then I think it needs to be known. I could be completely wrong here and if so I will gladly admit it.
I smell politics.
I guess some folks are the new kids on the block. Welcome to pool in the United States of America. This is the way it is. You can fight it, write about it, be pissed off about it, but, in the end, nobody gives a hoot.
I have a great deal of respect for the WPBA. The UPA, the men's organization, died, thanks to some egg giving another egg with absolutely no experience the power to be the governing body of professional pool.
I wish the WPBA all the best. I hope they survive these tough economic times.
Remind me to relay the story about how the vote was done for the BCA's HOF committee when Earl won the popular vote by a landslide but was passed over once again that year.
This, my friends, is pool, American style.
So lets hear the story about Earl and how the UPA went down. I think some can learn from the past mistakes.
One year, the BCA put out a press release and asked the general public who they wanted to be admitted into their Hall of Fame.
They posted a poll on AzBilliards, and there may have been a poll elsewhere, but I did not see a poll on any of the other pool-related sites.
If memory serves me right, there were three names on the list. Earl Strickland won the popular vote by a landslide. I mean, it was like an overwhelming amount, close to 90 percent.
You have to remember, though, that he had been passed over year after year, and so this popular vote mechanism was new. I had never seen the BCA post a poll before and had never seen it since where they actually invite the public to vote.
Needless to say, Earl was passed over that year. There was a conference call of the BCA Hall of Fame Committee, which consisted of mainly pool media members but a few others too.
The public poll didn't mean squat. The members of the HOF committee decided on who was to get in that year, with Earl's overwhelming popular vote not even getting mentioned on the call.
And BTW, one person on the call never heard a vote taken. It was just like it was said so and so is getting in, and thats was it. No vote, nothing.
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Disagree-Maybe one or two but that's it. Look what happened at Galveston when outsiders and 'businessmen' get involved, they make the same dumb mistakes and dont listen to anyone who could see them coming a thousand miles away.
They think, ala Trudeau, if we make it big enough and spend enough $$, the Public will jump on board,sponsors etc. Wish it were true.
If i had a choice of having all businessmen outsiders or all pool insiders, i'll take the insiders.
Nostroke, you were around for the rise and fall of the UPA, I know, and one of the main culprits to its demise, among other things, was the lack of tour events.
In these tough economic times, this is not going to go away. There isn't a whole lot of non-pool-related sponsors stepping up to the plate to support pool.
Case in point, how many American pros are there today who are monetarily sponsored -- not product, but money? I can count them on one hand.
I always thought Allen Hopkins would be the best candidate for any endeavor like this. He not only has the know-how to make things happen, but he's a player himself. I trust Allen.
Nostroke, you were around for the rise and fall of the UPA, I know, and one of the main culprits to its demise, among other things, was the lack of tour events.
In these tough economic times, this is not going to go away. There isn't a whole lot of non-pool-related sponsors stepping up to the plate to support pool.
Case in point, how many American pros are there today who are monetarily sponsored -- not product, but money? I can count them on one hand.
I always thought Allen Hopkins would be the best candidate for any endeavor like this. He not only has the know-how to make things happen, but he's a player himself. I trust Allen.
I just saw the info below your name. I know in the past you were 3rd? but first on Qwerty? Now you are THE World champion?
Tell us the story or give me a link-thanks
PS-In 1/2 hour ill be on the road to the Open- 7 hour drive.
You lucky devil dog. Hope you have fun. Don't forget us plebians stuck here at home, please. In other words, we want full reports, dag nab it.
FULL REPORTS, POOL SMUT, ACTION MATCHES, TOURNAMENT TRIUMPHS. :grin-square:
Today's an excellent day to get by Richmond. You don't even want to be near D.C. during the work week.
When a player's organization attempts to run a tour there will always be drawbacks imo. Limiting tournament opportunities to those which meet lofty minimum requirements in the end is just limiting tournament opportunities. Competition is not a problem, it is a solution.
A player's organization should set guidelines for points awarded and let anybody put up any amount of money they want for tournaments. More money = more points = more top players. Let them compete. Smaller tournaments may be less lucrative for top players, but replacing one big tournament with several smaller ones might befefit a lot of players and the group in general.
A player's organization should set guidelines for points awarded and let anybody put up any amount of money they want for tournaments. More money = more points = more top players. Let them compete. Smaller tournaments may be less lucrative for top players, but replacing one big tournament with several smaller ones might befefit a lot of players and the group in general.
I honestly believe it takes a combination of pool insiders and business minded individuals but, business minded with a background to do whats needed to be done. Just as in pool players, there are many levels of business minded folks out there, some terrific, some not so terrific and could cause bigger problems. It does take someone from outside to see things folks in the middle of the mess cannot see or to being in a new perspective but without the insiders to guide them and educate them on the issues of past, the results will likely be same ole same ole.
I also believe in the post that someone added about having tournaments of any size..............it should be up to the players to play but if there are events even if considered smaller regional or satallite events. I would rather see 20 events a year with 4 being larger and then the other 16 being smaller than to see only 4 per year. It gets the people buzzing and keeps interest in the game and gets to more new pool lovers and potential sponsors. Doing anything differently especially in these difficult economic times makes no sense IMO.
How many players actually feel as if they cannot get to the top 4 to win any real winnings anyway? If the majority of the players would play in regioanl or satalite events, wouldnt it make sense to hold more of them to get full fields and more interest and allow more players to earn a living? its much easier to get a smaller amount of sponsorship at those levels than it is to get a large production tournament sponsorship.
Things will change, I do believe that. I used to start new or revamp companies for a living and this is one in need of being revamped by someone that has the ability, connections and desire! Its simply a matter of who wants to take on the task and it wont all be met with hugs and kisses from everyone.
There are a ton of people waiting, hoping and needing change..............its probably closer than you think or at the least the effort by someone is.
I also believe in the post that someone added about having tournaments of any size..............it should be up to the players to play but if there are events even if considered smaller regional or satallite events. I would rather see 20 events a year with 4 being larger and then the other 16 being smaller than to see only 4 per year. It gets the people buzzing and keeps interest in the game and gets to more new pool lovers and potential sponsors. Doing anything differently especially in these difficult economic times makes no sense IMO.
How many players actually feel as if they cannot get to the top 4 to win any real winnings anyway? If the majority of the players would play in regioanl or satalite events, wouldnt it make sense to hold more of them to get full fields and more interest and allow more players to earn a living? its much easier to get a smaller amount of sponsorship at those levels than it is to get a large production tournament sponsorship.
Things will change, I do believe that. I used to start new or revamp companies for a living and this is one in need of being revamped by someone that has the ability, connections and desire! Its simply a matter of who wants to take on the task and it wont all be met with hugs and kisses from everyone.
There are a ton of people waiting, hoping and needing change..............its probably closer than you think or at the least the effort by someone is.
And about the APA peice of this...................from past experience with how they do business....................I would sadly say I have to believe that wouldve been said. Competition in business is healthy but not when it consumes companies or individuals to the point where theire decisions are made because of it rather than what would benefit the company and in this case the WPBA. Its truly sad that a threat was made if it in fact was................................but in truth, I wouldve expected it from them. Bad business decisions 101 folks!
Quit being such a rumor monger!!!! lol
WPBA elections
I think all industry type boards need both insiders and people outside of the industry to form a good board. However, an industry such as billiards has billiard fans who are experts in other fields. (A banker who is a pool fan, could make a good board member - but a pool player probably would probably not make a good banker association member).
On the other topic.
I have also heard that the APA presented a letter stating they would withdraw their financial support to the WPBA if Mark Griffin was elected. I do not have all the facts seperated from the rumors yet.
Believe me, there were over 64 women in the room - the truth will come out. Plus the board allowed this to occur without offering me any rebuttal. I do not want to overreact - so I will take the time to get all the facts.
Anyone that wants to help me get the truth PLEASE contact me at 702-835-2000 or at markg@playbca.com.
I will state that the APA is once again proving they are a bully. But they have put thrown the WPBA under the bus. What kind of message does this put out for the world to see? What is the APA afraid of? Who in the hell would want to be affiliatd with an organization that handles business in this manner?
There were other options - calling me would have been one.
Pool never is boring---
Mark Griffin
702-835-2000
markg@playbca.com
I think all industry type boards need both insiders and people outside of the industry to form a good board. However, an industry such as billiards has billiard fans who are experts in other fields. (A banker who is a pool fan, could make a good board member - but a pool player probably would probably not make a good banker association member).
On the other topic.
I have also heard that the APA presented a letter stating they would withdraw their financial support to the WPBA if Mark Griffin was elected. I do not have all the facts seperated from the rumors yet.
Believe me, there were over 64 women in the room - the truth will come out. Plus the board allowed this to occur without offering me any rebuttal. I do not want to overreact - so I will take the time to get all the facts.
Anyone that wants to help me get the truth PLEASE contact me at 702-835-2000 or at markg@playbca.com.
I will state that the APA is once again proving they are a bully. But they have put thrown the WPBA under the bus. What kind of message does this put out for the world to see? What is the APA afraid of? Who in the hell would want to be affiliatd with an organization that handles business in this manner?
There were other options - calling me would have been one.
Pool never is boring---
Mark Griffin
702-835-2000
markg@playbca.com
It is what it is. The APA can pull sponsorship for whatever reason at anytime. Thats their perogative and if they object to how things are being handled, then they SHOULD leave. I am not APA supporter , but if the APA feels that way then the WPBA should either look for other sponorship or support their long standing partnership they have with the APA.
WPBA elections
In many ways I agree with your thought. BUT, the purpose of most people involved with pool is to make it grow. The APA's position will only continue to further fracture the industry.
They are bullies and I think this move will only show that too more people.
My goals are to make pool stronger. The WPBA has unfortunately allowed themselves to be 'owned' by a very selfish organization. I feel other sponsors will not look towards the WPBA if this is how they allow their business to be manipulated.
This is all unfortunate and unnecessary. Anyone that wants to continue this discussion (or give up more info on the meting in Lincoln City, please contact me at markg@playbca.com or 702-835-2000.
This probably is not the end of this----
Mark Griffin
""I will agree with you It is what it is. The APA can pull sponsorship for whatever reason at anytime. Thats their perogative and if they object to how things are being handled, then they SHOULD leave. I am not APA supporter , but if the APA feels that way then the WPBA should either look for other sponorship or support their long standing partnership they have with the APA.""
In many ways I agree with your thought. BUT, the purpose of most people involved with pool is to make it grow. The APA's position will only continue to further fracture the industry.
They are bullies and I think this move will only show that too more people.
My goals are to make pool stronger. The WPBA has unfortunately allowed themselves to be 'owned' by a very selfish organization. I feel other sponsors will not look towards the WPBA if this is how they allow their business to be manipulated.
This is all unfortunate and unnecessary. Anyone that wants to continue this discussion (or give up more info on the meting in Lincoln City, please contact me at markg@playbca.com or 702-835-2000.
This probably is not the end of this----
Mark Griffin
""I will agree with you It is what it is. The APA can pull sponsorship for whatever reason at anytime. Thats their perogative and if they object to how things are being handled, then they SHOULD leave. I am not APA supporter , but if the APA feels that way then the WPBA should either look for other sponorship or support their long standing partnership they have with the APA.""
We normally try to stay out of the battles within the organizations and support/sponsor the sport and events.
That said, here is something to think on... As far as whether a sponsor should/should not continue supporting, regardless of who is elected:
If a group of guys you like needed $100 to do something good and you had the $100 to spare, you'd lend it to them, right? Now, take that same $100, the same purpose, and put your arch enemy in touch with and representing your money. Would you still give it to them? Probably not. That's YOUR money you're contributing to their cause, and you are careful/particular about where you put your money.
Unfortunately, sad things like this happen. The President of the USA gets the same treatment. People who might sponsor events related to the president might not do so, if the guy they don't like gets elected. Countries support/sponsor the government of the USA, until someone gets in office that they don't like and can't seem to (or don't want to) work with.
None of it is right. It puts the little guy, who is dependent on the support, out in the cold. He has nothing to do with it, but it is politics. It has been happening since the beginning of time.
For that one, ugly reason, we do our best to support the sport and the events, not necessarily the organizations.
Missed opportunity for WPBA!!!! Wow...
What are you guys thinking? The WPBA is going backwards over the last few years, which is bad for all players, male and female... The women have had the best foundation in our sport.. Now, at a time they need it most, they turn down a guy that has all the resourses to turn that organization into the best it could be EVER! Mark has the money, the knowledge, the experience, the tables(diamond)which they will need!,the contacts, the man power..More important the Love for the game.. Just look at the way he does things.. I went to his room in Anchorage, Alaska back in the early 90's.What a great room. It was rich with the history of the game, done in great taste.. This man takes pride in what he takes on, That one of many traits for the success he has...
What a missed opportunity for the WPBA. It saddens me because I have a lot of friends on the tour that this decision will effect in the future..
I just don't see how the new elects have even half the experience between all of em' compared to mark.. What do they bring to the table for the tour??
What are you guys thinking? The WPBA is going backwards over the last few years, which is bad for all players, male and female... The women have had the best foundation in our sport.. Now, at a time they need it most, they turn down a guy that has all the resourses to turn that organization into the best it could be EVER! Mark has the money, the knowledge, the experience, the tables(diamond)which they will need!,the contacts, the man power..More important the Love for the game.. Just look at the way he does things.. I went to his room in Anchorage, Alaska back in the early 90's.What a great room. It was rich with the history of the game, done in great taste.. This man takes pride in what he takes on, That one of many traits for the success he has...
What a missed opportunity for the WPBA. It saddens me because I have a lot of friends on the tour that this decision will effect in the future..
I just don't see how the new elects have even half the experience between all of em' compared to mark.. What do they bring to the table for the tour??
Go get em' BCA! I'm a Griffin voter anyway!! I have seen his results for about 15 years..You get my approval Mark!! LOL.
Beckley.
Beckley.
This is a very true post and very sad at the same time. It seems politics touches every aspect of our lives and there are places that it has no place in. When professional pool and pool related companies are struggling to survive, I would hope that the largest league system there is would see the good press and intelligence of banding together with other do gooders regardless of competition and do whats best for pool and pool as a business.
This wasnt just political...it was downright stupid and spiteful!
The example you used about $100 is a great one but i bet if you said the survival of X depends on it..................most would see past the issue and provide the $100. Dont look to the APA to do anything that doesnt benefit them as individuals and as a company because you wont see it. They arent here to support a sport, game or industry, they are here to make money period. thats good for them but in truth, its very bad for the sport and in my opinion, shows what they are really about and its isnt the betterment of the industry.
Whether Mark was voted in or not isnt going to stop him from having one of the largest most notable impacts on pool as anyone has ever seen if he chooses to take it on but it does show how the APA continues to reap benefit for themselves rather than promoting the industry for anyone else.
The WPBA while acting out of fear most likely, is going to be yet another casualty if they dont get needed help and sadly, the APA that they count on will likely not be their saving grace. I do understand why they would react to keep the APA when its all they really have though.
The APA contiues to show that bigger isnt better and that they are truly in it for themselves and not for the industry. It may be at the expense of the WPBA this time which is very sad sine they have been the only real structured professional pool in this country that has done so well for so long.