New direction for the players

[JCIN]

Was not there just recently hear an auction of a $250 Jack Justis case with 90% of the top pros signed it and it auctioned off for less than the case price alone?? I think the market will tell ya the value of these autos real soon.

To me an autograph from some one in a sport the level of pool, bowling, darts, what have you is not for monetary value. It is for the connection to a person or player you respect for whatever reason. The only reason to pay for an autograph IMO is if logistics prevent a person from getting it first hand or the item that is signed appeals to the person.

Once it becomes all about money then the soul of thing is gone. Just my opinion.

Oh yeah, Bignasty won that Justis case in the AZ raffle last year and donated it so we could raffle it off with the money going to Bugs.

 

[Ant812]

I should have been more clear in my initial post. This is not about denying little Johnny his free autograph. The players will still sign autographs -- if they feel like it -- on paper, programs etc. They will not sign PRODUCTS OR SOUVENIRS without an endorsement commission -- and why should they? An Ivan Roderiguez baseball glove aint free, and he gets his cut for his replicated signature and endorsement. These are like mini-endorsements, and a way for the players to make a buck.

the Beard

im not an autograph type of person but if i was and i wanted my own cue ball signed that i had brought and was refused or had seen or heard of someone refused, i would definately think different of the celebrity and it wouldne be in a good way. if the players arent making enough money by playing pool and need to stupe to this level then they should get a better job like everyone else does.

 

[JAM]

....if the players arent making enough money by playing pool and need to stupe to this level then they should get a better job like everyone else does.

This is exactly the line of reasoning that prevented me from posting on this thread.

Stuping to that level to bash pool players, then maybe everybody who bashes pool players should quit posting negatively about pool players and go find another sports professional to bash.

JAM

 

[crawfish]

This will be my last post on this thread. Thanks for all your input, I believe my idea has been distorted and misconstrued, but that is probably more my fault than anybody else's. Tact in delivery has never been a long suit of mine, but I will take one more stab at it.
Out of 140 posts --- the point nobody seems to get -- I am the one that is paying for an autograph. I am the one that thinks their signature is valuable and am willing to put up my money to back up my belief. No one else is being asked to pay for an autograph. It is me who pays them for every souvenir they sign for me. I give the guys a batch of cue balls to sign, they sign them, and I pay them, in front, for their efforts. A cue maker sends me a batch of sticks to be signed, the players sign them, and I pay them for doing so, and send the sticks back to the cuemaker to market as special edition items. Hopefully, collectors and afficanados will buy these items and we can keep the cycle going. I bear sole financial responsibility for my idea. If that is stupid and insane, then it is only me that needs to be committed. To those that argue that a pool player's signature is not so valuable when you compare it to mainstream popular sports figures, that's your opinion, and it won't cost you a quarter if my differing opinion is ill founded. I'm the one whose bankroll is going to go into the toilet. Don't worry about me. I'm a big boy, I've endured much worse before. Go back to post #1 and open up the attachments. I intend to sell laser etched (the laser etching monogram is not shown in the attached sample), monogrammed cueballs in a trophy case, with a real player's signature on it, as a tournament souvenir for $25. The customers will be paying for the product only, I will have already paid the players their commission.

The Beard
Meth? Nah, just pills and coke. 67 years old, healthy as a horse, and clean as a hounds-tooth for 25 years. Very poor sex life, however.

Let's see.... you're fronting the cash in the projection of profit? I would like my autograph from someone to be an experience that I will remember. With this suggestion, I walk up to a stand, meet you or an assistant, give money, and receive an item signed (or supposed signed) by whoever I choose? Wow, what a moment! I know this has to be some kind of comic relief from work, right? Come on. Let's compare it to my experience getting a ball handed to me by Willie Stargell in the stands of a baseball game. I handed him a pen back, and he wrote: "To Keith, keep hitting them." HHMMM..... I guess it's kind of the same thing, except I took my ten bucks and bought hotdogs and drinks.

 

[DaveK]

This is exactly the line of reasoning that prevented me from posting on this thread.

Stuping to that level to bash pool players, then maybe everybody who bashes pool players should quit posting negatively about pool players and go find another sports professional to bash.

JAM

A fair number of professional football players who play in the CFL have second jobs. Many second tier professional hockey and soccer players have second jobs, the semi-pro leagues do not pay the big bucks like the premier leagues. To suggest that a pro athlete take a second job is not a bash, it's a reality for many.

Dave

 

[lodini]

This is exactly the line of reasoning that prevented me from posting on this thread.

Stuping to that level to bash pool players, then maybe everybody who bashes pool players should quit posting negatively about pool players and go find another sports professional to bash.

JAM

With the exception of a very few, I think the majority of posters here aren't bashing pool players when they say that they don't agree with this plan. Just like the people who think that the waterboy is the one who signs autographs for pro teams, I think most are afraid of what this concept could do to a sport that right now thrives on the personal contact with the great players. Think of the thread going right now where everyone is thanking you and Keith for the photos you sent... that is really awesome and really made those people's day. We face losing that special connection between the pros and the fans if we allow the space between them to get too big.

 

[JAM]

A fair number of professional football players who play in the CFL have second jobs. Many second tier professional hockey and soccer players have second jobs, the semi-pro leagues do not pay the big bucks like the premier leagues. To suggest that a pro athlete take a second job is not a bash, it's a reality for many.

Dave

No matter what I say, DaveK, whatever topic, you will always have a response opposite to me. I think you thrive on it and wait for the moment to follow my posts. I have noticed a pattern.

I did not interpret his post to mean a pool player needed to get a second job. My opinion differs from yours, so be it.

JAM

 

[COLLECTION GURU]

Banking With The Beard But Don't Go To The Bank With The Beard

I am putting together an organization that will insure that the players get paid for their autographs. No more cue balls, shirts, photos, or sticks signed for nix. Every other sports celebrity in the world gets paid big money to sign sports gear, but not our guys. I am going to try and change all that. I talked to all the major players at the Olympics in Louisville this Nov. To a man they were all excited by the idea. To start it off I paid all of them -- in front-- to sign some cue balls and other stuff. I am going to have them, and other top players, from Efren on down, pre-autograph sports gear to be marketed from my booth at DCC and then on my website with the boys getting a cut of everything they sign -- in front. At Derby City I will be at a booth that will have, among other things, pre-autographed memorabilia, and the ability to provide -- on request -- autographs on whatever memorabilia the fans provide, their shirts, sticks, whatever. The players will get paid for every signature. I am then going to take it further and solicit the big billiard supply companies and allow them to advertise and sell, officially autographed memorabilia, balls, cues, clothing, etc. I'm also going to hit on the cuemakers and allow them to sell their sticks with a real autograph on them, not a machine print. Naturally, that would allow the cuemakers to charge a few bucks extra for a special edition cue. For this service they would pay our organization a fee. The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC. They will refer all requests to my booth. To give an idea of what the marketing for this stuff might look like on a suppliers catalog page, I'm including a preview of some of the marketing I am going to do on my webpage where I am going to solicit requests for autographed cueballs and display cases. A fan can reserve an autographed cueball and trophy case and I will get his ball signed for him at Derby City in Jan.

The Beard
(exception: the Bugs signed cueballs on display below are not for sale)

MR. FREDDY, YOU ARE GREAT FOR THIS SPORT YOU EXCEL AT AND CARE ABOUT. THIS IDEA IS AS SOUND AS HILLARY'S HEALTH CARE PLAN; SOUNDS GOOD BUT WILL POOP OUT. I TOO LOVE POOL AND AM INVIGORATED THE LAST THREE YEARS AS I NEAR THE COFFIN AGE. SUPPLY AND DEMAND IS AN ECONOMIC FACT AND IMPACTS YOUR IDEA IN THIS WAY. THE REASON THE DEMAND IS HIGH FOR AUTOGRAPHS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE FREE. ANY PRICE WILL DECREASE DEMAND FOR SEVERAL REASONS:
1. GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!
2. INCREASE THE VALUE OF ITEMS ALREADY SIGNED; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!
3. CREATE RESENTMENT FROM CASUAL FANS; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
4. ANOTHER MOUTH TO FEED; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
5. CREATE INCIDENTS BETWEEN THE "STARS" AND THE PAYING PUBLIC;
GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!

I THINK AN INTERESTING STUDY WHICH I WOULD VOLUNTEER TO PREPARE
WOULD BE HOW MANY AUTOGRAPHS DO THE TOP LADIES SIGN FOR FREE VS THE NUMBER THEY SELL FROM THEIR WEBSITES. AS THE LADIES ARE FURTHER ADVANCED THAN THE MEN IN MARKETING THEMSELVES, MEN CAN'T SET ALARM CLOCKS AS YOU KNOW FROM THE PREVIOUS DCC MISSING STARS AT MATCH TIME; THE INTERNET? NOT!!!!!!!!

I WAS EATING BREAKFAST WITH A GREAT POOL PLAYER AND SAW MIKE SIGEL SITTING NEAR US. I WAS INFORMED THAT "TRUDEAU'S TOT" CHARGED $5 FOR AN AUTOGRAPH IN HIS PRIME. AS HE HAD LEFT, I WANTED TO KNOW THAT EARLIER SO I COULD ASK FOR AN AUTOGRAPH AND IF HE ASKED FOR $5 I WOULD FLING THE CURRENCY IN PENNIES TO MR. SIGEL.


I WISH YOU THE BEST BUT NOT IN THIS PROJECT AS I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR POOL.

 

[JAM]

With the exception of a very few, I think the majority of posters here aren't bashing pool players when they say that they don't agree with this plan. Just like the people who think that the waterboy is the one who signs autographs for pro teams, I think most are afraid of what this concept could do to a sport that right now thrives on the personal contact with the great players. Think of the thread going right now where everyone is thanking you and Keith for the photos you sent... that is really awesome and really made those people's day. We face losing that special connection between the pros and the fans if we allow the space between them to get too big.

Then maybe you just might understand why some pool players may find it offensive to read the crap on this forum bashing pool players. Some players do go out of their way for fans and pool enthusiasts.

Freddy posted up an idea on this thread, and it breaks my heart to read some of the mean-spirited responses.

Special connection? You wonder why pros don't like posting on AzBilliards? This thread says it all.

JAM

 

[JAM]

MR. FREDDY, YOU ARE GREAT FOR THIS SPORT YOU EXCEL AT AND CARE ABOUT. THIS IDEA IS AS SOUND AS HILLARY'S HEALTH CARE PLAN; SOUNDS GOOD BUT WILL POOP OUT. I TOO LOVE POOL AND AM INVIGORATED THE LAST THREE YEARS AS I NEAR THE COFFIN AGE. SUPPLY AND DEMAND IS AN ECONOMIC FACT AND IMPACTS YOUR IDEA IN THIS WAY. THE REASON THE DEMAND IS HIGH FOR AUTOGRAPHS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE FREE. ANY PRICE WILL DECREASE DEMAND FOR SEVERAL REASONS:
1. GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!
2. INCREASE THE VALUE OF ITEMS ALREADY SIGNED; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!
3. CREATE RESENTMENT FROM CASUAL FANS; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
4. ANOTHER MOUTH TO FEED; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
5. CREATE INCIDENTS BETWEEN THE "STARS" AND THE PAYING PUBLIC;
GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!

I THINK AN INTERESTING STUDY WHICH I WOULD VOLUNTEER TO PREPARE
WOULD BE HOW MANY AUTOGRAPHS DO THE TOP LADIES SIGN FOR FREE VS THE NUMBER THEY SELL FROM THEIR WEBSITES. AS THE LADIES ARE FURTHER ADVANCED THAN THE MEN IN MARKETING THEMSELVES, MEN CAN'T SET ALARM CLOCKS AS YOU KNOW FROM THE PREVIOUS DCC MISSING STARS AT MATCH TIME; THE INTERNET? NOT!!!!!!!!

I WAS EATING BREAKFAST WITH A GREAT POOL PLAYER AND SAW MIKE SIGEL SITTING NEAR US. I WAS INFORMED THAT "TRUDEAU'S TOT" CHARGED $5 FOR AN AUTOGRAPH IN HIS PRIME. AS HE HAD LEFT, I WANTED TO KNOW THAT EARLIER SO I COULD ASK FOR AN AUTOGRAPH AND IF HE ASKED FOR $5 I WOULD FLING THE CURRENCY IN PENNIES TO MR. SIGEL.


I WISH YOU THE BEST BUT NOT IN THIS PROJECT AS I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR POOL.

Where did this egg come from?

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

MR. FREDDY, YOU ARE GREAT FOR THIS SPORT YOU EXCEL AT AND CARE ABOUT. THIS IDEA IS AS SOUND AS HILLARY'S HEALTH CARE PLAN; SOUNDS GOOD BUT WILL POOP OUT. I TOO LOVE POOL AND AM INVIGORATED THE LAST THREE YEARS AS I NEAR THE COFFIN AGE. SUPPLY AND DEMAND IS AN ECONOMIC FACT AND IMPACTS YOUR IDEA IN THIS WAY. THE REASON THE DEMAND IS HIGH FOR AUTOGRAPHS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE FREE. ANY PRICE WILL DECREASE DEMAND FOR SEVERAL REASONS:
1. GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!
2. INCREASE THE VALUE OF ITEMS ALREADY SIGNED; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!
3. CREATE RESENTMENT FROM CASUAL FANS; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
4. ANOTHER MOUTH TO FEED; GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
5. CREATE INCIDENTS BETWEEN THE "STARS" AND THE PAYING PUBLIC;
GREEDY BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!

I THINK AN INTERESTING STUDY WHICH I WOULD VOLUNTEER TO PREPARE
WOULD BE HOW MANY AUTOGRAPHS DO THE TOP LADIES SIGN FOR FREE VS THE NUMBER THEY SELL FROM THEIR WEBSITES. AS THE LADIES ARE FURTHER ADVANCED THAN THE MEN IN MARKETING THEMSELVES, MEN CAN'T SET ALARM CLOCKS AS YOU KNOW FROM THE PREVIOUS DCC MISSING STARS AT MATCH TIME; THE INTERNET? NOT!!!!!!!!

I WAS EATING BREAKFAST WITH A GREAT POOL PLAYER AND SAW MIKE SIGEL SITTING NEAR US. I WAS INFORMED THAT "TRUDEAU'S TOT" CHARGED $5 FOR AN AUTOGRAPH IN HIS PRIME. AS HE HAD LEFT, I WANTED TO KNOW THAT EARLIER SO I COULD ASK FOR AN AUTOGRAPH AND IF HE ASKED FOR $5 I WOULD FLING THE CURRENCY IN PENNIES TO MR. SIGEL.


I WISH YOU THE BEST BUT NOT IN THIS PROJECT AS I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR POOL.

I finally got to take off my glasses to read something. Thanks.
Now, what did you say about Sea Gulls?

 

[lodini]

Then maybe you just might understand why some pool players may find it offensive to read the crap on this forum bashing pool players. Some players do go out of their way for fans and pool enthusiasts.

Freddy posted up an idea on this thread, and it breaks my heart to read some of the mean-spirited responses.

Special connection? You wonder why pros don't like posting on AzBilliards? This thread says it all.

JAM

EVERY sports website has its share of haters. EVERY professional athlete has people speaking up against them. EVERY professional sport has people who claim to be fans, but have lots of negative things to say about it. This is not unique to pool and it definitely doesn't mean that they should turn their backs on their real fans to get back at the negative ones.

The "special connection" I was referring to is the access fans have to the pros. Without a unified pro system, a fan can actually find themselves competing in a tournament with one of their heroes! That's unheard of in most sports. But it's also what seperates pool from the big pro sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, etc). Knowing the difference is what makes some of us question ventures like the one proposed. Just because it's a differing opinion does not make it negative or insulting.

 

[JAM]

The "special connection" I was referring to is the access fans have to the pros. Without a unified pro system, a fan can actually find themselves competing in a tournament with one of their heroes! That's unheard of in most sports. But it's also what separates pool from the big pro sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, etc).

I agree that the men pros in pool are suffering a unified pro system in the States.

Knowing the difference is what makes some of us question ventures like the one proposed. Just because it's a differing opinion does not make it negative or insulting.

Well, Lodini, I was not stating that all opposing views to Freddy's concept were negative.

I did make mention of the person who thought pool players, like Freddy, "stuping," I think was the word he used, to this level should "get a job." It was a rotten thing to say, and that is my opinion. If it differs from yours, then tough cookies.

JAM

 

[Ant812]

This is exactly the line of reasoning that prevented me from posting on this thread.

Stuping to that level to bash pool players, then maybe everybody who bashes pool players should quit posting negatively about pool players and go find another sports professional to bash.

JAM

i didnt BASH anyone. if i did i would have named names which i dont have. i just dont think any professional in pool or ANY sport for that matter should agree to this type of program. but that just my opinion which i am entitled to just like you are entitled to yours.
didnt mean to ruffle any feathers but i stand my ground on how i feel about it and unfortunately its not changeable in this matter.

 

[lodini]

Well, Lodini, I was not stating that all opposing views to Freddy's concept were negative.



JAM

I guess I misunderstood your line that "This thread says it all." Sounded like you were referring to multiple posters, not just one.

 

[neroxpress]

man that was a bunch of big talk there

 

[JAM]

I guess I misunderstood your line that "This thread says it all." Sounded like you were referring to multiple posters, not just one.

I did not think it necessary to reference the post numbers which I interpreted as negative when I made the statement, "This thread says it all." Yes, you did misunderstand, Lodini.

JAM

P.S. FWIW, there were multiple posts which I deemed as negative.

There were some that I thought were constructive criticism in a positive way.

There were some posts that I thought were outright postive.

Should I have referenced each and every post on this thread and categorized them before I made the statement? I have never seen anyone else do that on this forum before.

 

[lodini]

I did not think it necessary to reference the post numbers which I interpreted as negative when I made the statement, "This thread says it all." Yes, you did misunderstand, Lodini.

JAM

My humblest apologies!!! (Man, you ARE a tough cookie) Geez...

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

My Biggest Problem Is Remembering What I've Said

i didnt BASH anyone. if i did i would have named names which i dont have. i just dont think any professional in pool or ANY sport for that matter should agree to this type of program. but that just my opinion which i am entitled to just like you are entitled to yours.
didnt mean to ruffle any feathers but i stand my ground on how i feel about it and unfortunately its not changeable in this matter.

Well, unlike you, I reserve the right to change my mind. Hell, I may even APOLOGIZE for something I've said at a later point in time... imo
Doug
( I'm sticking with my original replies until I change them )


Edited: to change an S to a Z (dammit)



.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I May Offer Some "Blank Checks" Autographed By Smorgass Bored

There were some posts that I thought were outright postive.

Should I have referenced each and every post on this thread and categorized them before I made the statement? I have never seen anyone else do that on this forum before.
JAM

Yes, please reference all posts by number. Not only may it start a trend, but my Vote could be easily swayed.
Doug
( I'm in Florida........ imo )



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