New direction for the players

freddy the beard said:
I am putting together an organization that will insure that the players get paid for their autographs. No more cue balls, shirts, photos, or sticks signed for nix. Every other sports celebrity in the world gets paid big money to sign sports gear, but not our guys. I am going to try and change all that. I talked to all the major players at the Olympics in Louisville this Nov. To a man they were all excited by the idea. To start it off I paid all of them -- in front-- to sign some cue balls and other stuff. I am going to have them, and other top players, from Efren on down, pre-autograph sports gear to be marketed from my booth at DCC and then on my website with the boys getting a cut of everything they sign -- in front. At Derby City I will be at a booth that will have, among other things, pre-autographed memorabilia, and the ability to provide -- on request -- autographs on whatever memorabilia the fans provide, their shirts, sticks, whatever. The players will get paid for every signature. I am then going to take it further and solicit the big billiard supply companies and allow them to advertise and sell, officially autographed memorabilia, balls, cues, clothing, etc. I'm also going to hit on the cuemakers and allow them to sell their sticks with a real autograph on them, not a machine print. Naturally, that would allow the cuemakers to charge a few bucks extra for a special edition cue. For this service they would pay our organization a fee. The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC. They will refer all requests to my booth. To give an idea of what the marketing for this stuff might look like on a suppliers catalog page, I'm including a preview of some of the marketing I am going to do on my webpage where I am going to solicit requests for autographed cueballs and display cases. A fan can reserve an autographed cueball and trophy case and I will get his ball signed for him at Derby City in Jan.

The Beard
(exception: the Bugs signed cueballs on display below are not for sale)
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wow thats a bad idea. I personaly have never understood why anyone would want someones name written on something, unless the have $ signs in their eyes. I couldnt imagine a kid asking for a autograph at derby city and a pro saying "yea kid I will sign your whatever for a few bucks". Talk about a way to loose fan support, which isnt much.
 
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Concur with all replies...go ahead and sell memorabilia at your discretion....but dont denigrate Reyes, Archer, Fisher or Lee to effectively set up cool aid stands at tourneys and shows to sell ink.
 
This is the first time I have read this post and I've only read the original posts... so I am in noway swayed by what has been said already...

Freddy I've respected you and your post since you've been posting on this board and this is by far one of the worst and ill-thought-out things I've ever read. You make it sound like you are really doing something to help the players and the sport. From what it sounds like... you are only doing it to get your cut of what you think is an untapped market.

One of the main things I love about professional pool is that you get to interact with the players and that the pool players are not in it just for the money.

One of the things that has always stuck in my mind since I've heard it was when Mike Segal told a kid he wouldn't sign something for the him because he thought he should paid just like every other sport. I think Max Eberle overheard it and he signed something for the kid.

If this is the way to move pool forward... You guys can leave me behind.
 
I have a signed Randy Moss jersey #84 vikings, I have a signed Brett Farvre jersey #4 Packers, a signed John Elway jersey#7 Broncos, and most recently an Adrian Peterson Jersey #28 vikings.

I got them all in person and never paid a dime for the autograph, and only paid for 2 of the jerseys.

when your fans (and no professional athlete has fewer fans than pro pool players) ask for your autograph.. you do it... and you smile and be as nice as you can be. and if any of them ever asked me to pay for it. I would no longer be a fan.
 
Ktown D said:
I accidentally "good" repped you for this and I really wish there was a way I could rectify it. You deserve as much bad rep as you can get from your assinine comments. You are a tool.
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I tried to give you some rep to make up for your error but alas, I have to spread it around first! I did send some to the fool though, first time I've ever neg-repped anyone.

As to the topic, I'd never pay for an autograph. Don't get me wrong, I love to get stuff signed but it has to be something I bring with me. It just feels more "real" that way. For the same reason I'd never buy a signed item from Ebay. To me it's like wearing a band's tour t-shirt when you didn't see them play.
 
ShootingArts said:
Jay,

I assume you mean that you would pay her to let you sign an autograph? If so the line forms to my left!

Hu
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No butting in line. I saw her first!
 
JCIN said:
I think I get what Freddy is trying to accomplish. We sell autographed stuff and the players get half. We buy the stuff, they sign it, we put it on the site and ship it then we split the money in half. So far a good deal for all. The thing is if a guy brings a cueball or shirt he can get the same thing for free at our events, as he should. Basically what we are selling is convience. It gives people a way to get a piece of memorabelia(sp) if they are unable to get to the venue. We have had nothing but positive responses so far.

That said, I think trying to build a market through forced exclusivity is a non starter, as evidenced by the response to this thread. The answer IMO is through marketing and having cool stuff signed and ready to go. Diana Hoppe is a great example. For a very reasonable price you get an original photograph that is signed and she can even do custom stuff right there because she brings all the stuff necessary.

I don't think people will pay for an autograph.I mean that in the sense of bringing a cue to a table and paying a guy to sign it. The only way to give that value is through the no signing outside of the table route. Which we have established don't go over so good. I know they will pay for signed merchandise. They wont buy many and they wont pay much but it can sell.

They key is making the items that they sign have value and make people say "That is cool...and it's signed too."

I think everyone latched on to the no freebies gist right off the bat and said "That is nuts" I know I did. But after reading some of Freddie's responses I think I get what he's after. The key is to provide value for the money, either convience or gee whiz factor. If you want exclusivity make the item a limited edition. We did it with a photo I made up of Shane and Corey, signed and framed, we made 4. $50 a pop. They all sold. No one is gonna get rich but the fans get a cool piece and the players and us get lunch money. It's a start.

I hope whatever it ends up being everyone walks away happy.
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Good point Justin. Years ago on the old Camel Pro Tour, they would have eight or ten top players sign a bunch of cue balls. Then they offered these cue balls for sale for something like $25, and guess what. They all got sold.
They had some kind of holder for the ball as I recall.

They would even sell them at the BCA Trade Expo in Vegas at the PPA booth.
 
Freddy, you are missing a huge point that has been made over and over.

This audience ( AZB ) is much more in touch with what will or won't fly than the average joe who *might* buys something on impulse.

IMO, for the real hard core market, you are wasting valuable time posting, the memrabillia needs to be signed, collected and offered for sale on a web site that will cater to a global market.

You are focusing on a micro economy vs. a macro.

the guys who drive hours and hours to get to the DCC to support the players and game are the WRONG ones to alienate.


Just my humble opinion.
 
One last gasp

This will be my last post on this thread. Thanks for all your input, I believe my idea has been distorted and misconstrued, but that is probably more my fault than anybody else's. Tact in delivery has never been a long suit of mine, but I will take one more stab at it.
Out of 140 posts --- the point nobody seems to get -- I am the one that is paying for an autograph. I am the one that thinks their signature is valuable and am willing to put up my money to back up my belief. No one else is being asked to pay for an autograph. It is me who pays them for every souvenir they sign for me. I give the guys a batch of cue balls to sign, they sign them, and I pay them, in front, for their efforts. A cue maker sends me a batch of sticks to be signed, the players sign them, and I pay them for doing so, and send the sticks back to the cuemaker to market as special edition items. Hopefully, collectors and afficanados will buy these items and we can keep the cycle going. I bear sole financial responsibility for my idea. If that is stupid and insane, then it is only me that needs to be committed. To those that argue that a pool player's signature is not so valuable when you compare it to mainstream popular sports figures, that's your opinion, and it won't cost you a quarter if my differing opinion is ill founded. I'm the one whose bankroll is going to go into the toilet. Don't worry about me. I'm a big boy, I've endured much worse before. Go back to post #1 and open up the attachments. I intend to sell laser etched (the laser etching monogram is not shown in the attached sample), monogrammed cueballs in a trophy case, with a real player's signature on it, as a tournament souvenir for $25. The customers will be paying for the product only, I will have already paid the players their commission.

The Beard
Meth? Nah, just pills and coke. 67 years old, healthy as a horse, and clean as a hounds-tooth for 25 years. Very poor sex life, however.
 
Freddy, I think most understand by now

We realize that you are putting bucks up front buying signatures as a business venture. You are also selling the signatures. If there is any doubt offer the same laser engraved cueballs side by side with the ones with autographs added and put the same price on them. Tell me how sales go.

The statement that all players signing for you had agreed not to sign for free at the DCC stirred the controversy. Nobody minds you trying to make a buck. Trying to set yourself up as the middleman between the players and fans, at least in many eyes, well that is when the poop hit the proverbial fan!

Good luck selling your souvenirs, I mean that sincerely. I suggest that you release players from any obligation to you not to do any signings themselves or the backlash against you and them may far outweigh the value of the sales.

Hu




freddy the beard said:
This will be my last post on this thread. Thanks for all your input, I believe my idea has been distorted and misconstrued, but that is probably more my fault than anybody else's. Tact in delivery has never been a long suit of mine, but I will take one more stab at it.
Out of 140 posts --- the point nobody seems to get -- I am the one that is paying for an autograph. I am the one that thinks their signature is valuable and am willing to put up my money to back up my belief. No one else is being asked to pay for an autograph. It is me who pays them for every souvenir they sign for me. I give the guys a batch of cue balls to sign, they sign them, and I pay them, in front, for their efforts. A cue maker sends me a batch of sticks to be signed, the players sign them, and I pay them for doing so, and send the sticks back to the cuemaker to market as special edition items. Hopefully, collectors and afficanados will buy these items and we can keep the cycle going. I bear sole financial responsibility for my idea. If that is stupid and insane, then it is only me that needs to be committed. To those that argue that a pool player's signature is not so valuable when you compare it to mainstream popular sports figures, that's your opinion, and it won't cost you a quarter if my differing opinion is ill founded. I'm the one whose bankroll is going to go into the toilet. Don't worry about me. I'm a big boy, I've endured much worse before. Go back to post #1 and open up the attachments. I intend to sell laser etched (the laser etching monogram is not shown in the attached sample), monogrammed cueballs in a trophy case, with a real player's signature on it, as a tournament souvenir for $25. The customers will be paying for the product only, I will have already paid the players their commission.

The Beard
Meth? Nah, just pills and coke. 67 years old, healthy as a horse, and clean as a hounds-tooth for 25 years. Very poor sex life, however.
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freddy the beard said:
This will be my last post on this thread. Thanks for all your input, I believe my idea has been distorted and misconstrued, but that is probably more my fault than anybody else's. Tact in delivery has never been a long suit of mine, but I will take one more stab at it.
Out of 140 posts --- the point nobody seems to get -- I am the one that is paying for an autograph. I am the one that thinks their signature is valuable and am willing to put up my money to back up my belief. No one else is being asked to pay for an autograph. It is me who pays them for every souvenir they sign for me. I give the guys a batch of cue balls to sign, they sign them, and I pay them, in front, for their efforts. A cue maker sends me a batch of sticks to be signed, the players sign them, and I pay them for doing so, and send the sticks back to the cuemaker to market as special edition items. Hopefully, collectors and afficanados will buy these items and we can keep the cycle going. I bear sole financial responsibility for my idea. If that is stupid and insane, then it is only me that needs to be committed. To those that argue that a pool player's signature is not so valuable when you compare it to mainstream popular sports figures, that's your opinion, and it won't cost you a quarter if my differing opinion is ill founded. I'm the one whose bankroll is going to go into the toilet. Don't worry about me. I'm a big boy, I've endured much worse before. Go back to post #1 and open up the attachments. I intend to sell laser etched (the laser etching monogram is not shown in the attached sample), monogrammed cueballs in a trophy case, with a real player's signature on it, as a tournament souvenir for $25. The customers will be paying for the product only, I will have already paid the players their commission.

The Beard
Meth? Nah, just pills and coke. 67 years old, healthy as a horse, and clean as a hounds-tooth for 25 years. Very poor sex life, however.
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Freddy, I don't think anyone here can say they have an issue with what you have wrote above. I do hope that works for you and I don't think many people missed that point.

Like you mentioned, things more often than not get taken out of context and misconstrued in these forums where they may not be if you were speaking directly to the person.

I believe the issue that most posters have touched on (myself included) is this statement in your OP:
freddy the beard said:
The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC. They will refer all requests to my booth.
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What this implies is that the fans can not approach the player for an autograph, picture, or anything else because they have to go to your booth.

This sport thrives in part because of the accessibility to the players. I think what is misconstrued is that you are trying to take that away.

However, for me personally, if I walked up to a player and asked them to sign my program, a tournament flyer, or my case, and was told that I had to go to your booth to buy it, I know I wouldn't do that.

But, if for example I wanted to buy a gift for someone, say a signed cue ball, I would have no issue in doing that.

Another popular example could be auto racing. These guys make a fortune on there memorabilia, shirts, diecasts, etc with their trademarked signatures. However if a fan sees a driver and asks them to sign a hat, and the driver tells them to go to their souvenir trailer to buy it, do you really think the fan will do so? More likely is the fan will not even bother. How fast would that driver's popularity decline as a result? Can you imagine Richard Petty telling his fans that he won't sign anything because they have to go to he trailer to buy it?

You may be onto something by being able to offer memorabilia to fans who otherwise don't have access to the players. Just don't try to take away the ability of the fans to approach the players.

IMO, that's what the posters in this thread are trying to convey to you.


Good luck with your venture,
Craig
 
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bigskyjake said:
Blackjack said:
Straight back and in the corner QUOTE]

Hey Dave, in Chicago I believe it's called "up under me" :D
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LOL...I haven't heard that term since the guy I played in the Bank event last year at the Derby. Unfortunately for me he said it alot.
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Good Luck, Freddy

The problem with going into an autograph business is that players will sign cues, posters, picutres, cueballs, etc. on their own and cut out the middle man if they can turn a dollar.

More inportantly, is that people don't know what an authentic signature looks likes and if there's ANY money to be made, people will simply counterfeit sign items themselves. In the world of 'autographs', there are more bogus signatures than there are REAL signatures. Even if you offer a certificate of authenticity, those can be forged also. It's done all the time.

Like most everyone else here, I wish you VERY good luck with your undertaking..... just keep banking them in.

Doug
 
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