New Respect For Snooker Players.

Scaramouche said:
This thread now has far more postings than the entire snooker section since inception:D

Money is not found in just prize money, endorsements, and exhibitions. It is comes from in coaching for big bucks. Doug Mountjoy is mentioned on this page.

http://www.alshindagah.com/julaug2003/snooker.html

Everything is relative of course but don't assume that Mountjoy earned any big bucks coaching in UAE simply because it is the oil rich Middle East:)

Competition is fierce on all job fronts and the days of comparative megabucks for sports coaches (even soccer ones who are the traditional top earners) from overseas are long long gone. Furthermore the cost of living is now horrendous in several respects. There are no fortunes to be made as a snooker coach here.

Just as a passing point of interest given other posts in this thread, Mountjoy did in fact also play uk style 8 ball for the Welsh International team just a few years ago. He was no world beater at that discipline but competent enough:)
 
yobagua said:
Hey Quentin how do you get on the rough side of things. I mean you are a handsome talented guy. But everything you get into turns downright ugly. Last time I saw you you got beat by a lower rated snooker player named Andy Hicks? was it? A guy that would make Inspecor Clousseau look like a Tarzan. A true bald little computer type nice guy and you challenged him to a fist fight on national tv. How do you get into these scrapes? You really deserve better.
And Virgo and THorne and Steve Davis was just loathing your publicized boxing match. Is that how you yobs are still settling things. Pub brawling? Come on man this is the 21st century.
And why come on here and pound on your mates from America. Remember us? When Winnie practically begged us to get into the old War to save Ole Englands butts from der schiklegruber. Remember us? Where the Stones and Lennon and his boys use to come and rip off all the black blues artist for their music like Muddy Waters and Little Walter and Buddy Guy and make millions of it and pretended to invent it?
Stay where you are man and enjoy your "chook" and "bay Bugs" and your Vegemite. Enjoy your retirement. Let us second rate cueists get on with our life.


yes life is good for me down under that is why i am not playing american pool although the little taste i had of it in the ipt was unexpectatly good

i will play john smidt and some of the other players for sure when i start playing again. like i said i dont have the time or interest to learn games with no money or interest like one pocket, banks, but i will play 8 ball. learn some 10 ball and john and i will play for some money 5-10k most likely between june and the end of the year. it is my own money so this 20k a leg crap john mentioned is silly iv only ever heard of these games banks oone ball etc

im not being cocky but im doing very well and it would be stupid of me to go back to playing unless it was ipt type payouts.
i will take a 1 month holiday later in the year and make contact with these players.

your right i do turn things ugly it surprises me, i do like to shit stir i cant help it when john and i do play i will love the tension and so will everyone else.

as for the fight he said something to me after i lost you dont kick a man when he is down i never do, so i said outside i ended up fighting another tough snooker player and then a bigish type gaelic footballer i never got a scratch on me except for some rope burn lol. although the press said i had a broken nose unbelievable.

i financed all the boxing paid for venue, ring, advertising and worked out how much to pay my opponents etc, i had a 50-50 partner and cleared $60,000 for 12 minutes of fighting.

i had a ball doing it and the 12 hundred people at bethnall green im told had a great time too, so i never saw the problem with it people just have to realise there is more to things than what they first see
 
hi

chamillionare said:
yes life is good for me down under that is why i am not playing american pool although the little taste i had of it in the ipt was unexpectatly good

i will play john smidt and some of the other players for sure when i start playing again. like i said i dont have the time or interest to learn games with no money or interest like one pocket, banks, but i will play 8 ball. learn some 10 ball and john and i will play for some money 5-10k most likely between june and the end of the year. it is my own money so this 20k a leg crap john mentioned is silly iv only ever heard of these games banks oone ball etc

im not being cocky but im doing very well and it would be stupid of me to go back to playing unless it was ipt type payouts.
i will take a 1 month holiday later in the year and make contact with these players.

your right i do turn things ugly it surprises me, i do like to shit stir i cant help it when john and i do play i will love the tension and so will everyone else.

as for the fight he said something to me after i lost you dont kick a man when he is down i never do, so i said outside i ended up fighting another tough snooker player and then a bigish type gaelic footballer i never got a scratch on me except for some rope burn lol. although the press said i had a broken nose unbelievable.

i financed all the boxing paid for venue, ring, advertising and worked out how much to pay my opponents etc, i had a 50-50 partner and cleared $60,000 for 12 minutes of fighting.

i had a ball doing it and the 12 hundred people at bethnall green im told had a great time too, so i never saw the problem with it people just have to realise there is more to things than what they first see
again thats my point quintenn.ive taken 15 years to learn to play the different games in pool ,and you say with just a little practice you can play them.your right you can play them but i would think you will have a tough time beating me at say 14.1 with only 3 months practice.its harder than 8ball trustme.i think you are super talented and could be a monster poolplayer and already are.i just wish you would understand that its taken guys like me years to play all the pool games at pro level and when you say im overrated and with a few months practice you can play me even,that makes me say come on and bet high.anyway no hard feelings but when you come over i will give you action at 10ball and 14.1.i have no doubt you will be great at pool eventually if not already i just think you will realize that a few months is not enough to play guys like me even.
 
I just wish in these debates that people would look at the meaningful facts. The only way to compare is compare events that have happened at pro level. Stuff like my sister beat Tiger woods at pitch and putt once doesn't really count for much.

The way I see it we have had a couple of Americans (to there credit) go over to the UK and try to crack it. We also have many Snooker players that have tried the other way.

It's a shame that there haven't been more pool-snooker test cases but the thing to note is that the guys like rempe did go over when American Pool was in a much healthier state than today and the talent pool of snooker was a tiny fraction of today (like golf millions of kids in the UK saw what money could be like and mispent there youths!)

All this well lets play longer races or various minor games argument is BS. We should be comparing pro tournament level races only. The whole point of the debate is if each player could compete at pro level in either code. If Pro level pool races aren't adequete to differentiate between who's the best player then what does that say about Pro Pool!

Snooker - Pool
Peach, Manalo, Drago, Davis, Grey etc have had a lot of success in pool. I also don't think its true that it takes years for players to convert. Mark Grey has become European Number 1 in not much more than his first year on tour, an amazing feat. Lots to Snooker players have been successful early on playing pool tournaments with their snooker cues and crap equipment. I actually think most converted players have early success, then a long period of mediocre success as there potting advantage degrades. Then more success later on as they learn all the skills required and not just rely on their potting ability.


Pool - Snooker
Rempe and Mizz by all accounts put in a lot of dedication and seemed to reach a competitive level. However they where never a threat to win an event and in his own words Rempe admitted words to the effect of no American pool player had a chance to convert.
Efren's had success in the Asian games which isn't close to winning a ranking event but again he admitted he wasn't good enough to compete.


I think certain games lend themselves to snooker players more than others. IMO 14.1 would be the easiest, the biggest problem of most snooker players is the break in such games as 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball etc. There are so many similarities between Snooker and 14.1 the only major problem I see is the change of equipment. A race to 150/200 (world championship level races) between john and QH would be closer than most people think IF QH took it seriously enough to learn what he needs to learn tactics wise. I'd like to see it happen though, would put an end to all this speculation, a 14.1 action challenge between QH and JS anyone? :)
 
Well The One. You bring up important points but one that I'd like to take issue with is the "minor game" issue. You see who is to determine whats "minor". Some consider one pocket to be the toughest game in pool. I dont think any one from any country will see the likes of Efren Reyes in that capacity. I dont care how long you practice. Oh he can be beat just like Tiger Woods but eventually even up Efren will beat you in this game.
Now we can debate wether one pocket is a minor game but you have to bring in the issue of culture.
Reading Steve Davis' bio and Jimmy White's bio they lived the lives of snooker. Day in and day out. Now lets go to the Phillipines where Rotation is the number one game. I dont care how long you practive day in and day out those Filipino's like Efren will put a walloping on you in their national game. Rotation is part of their "culture". I think this is why Rempe and Mizerak said their was no way to break into snooker for an outsider at that time because you had to be a part of that society to excel in it.
So is Rotation a "minor" game. Then you are really saying the Phillipines is a "minor" country or culture. If you say 9 ball or 14.1 which are the sports of Americans. And remember snooker is a "minor" game here. You are actually saying America is a "minor" country. Particularly if you come on the boards and claim that our US Champion is a chump. Now we can safely say that Brittiania does not rule the waves anymore so it doesnt matter to me if snooker is a tougher game or if snooker players are better than pool players. I am indifferent. I love em both. But hell If I am going to let some loud mouth player who never won any big tournament come on the boards and put down the US Champion. It just isnt going to cut it. Cause what you are doing is demeaning my "culture".
 
yobagua said:
Well The One. You bring up important points but one that I'd like to take issue with is the "minor game" issue. You see who is to determine whats "minor". Some consider one pocket to be the toughest game in pool. I dont think any one from any country will see the likes of Efren Reyes in that capacity. I dont care how long you practice. Oh he can be beat just like Tiger Woods but eventually even up Efren will beat you in this game.
Now we can debate wether one pocket is a minor game but you have to bring in the issue of culture.
Reading Steve Davis' bio and Jimmy White's bio they lived the lives of snooker. Day in and day out. Now lets go to the Phillipines where Rotation is the number one game. I dont care how long you practive day in and day out those Filipino's like Efren will put a walloping on you in their national game. Rotation is part of their "culture". I think this is why Rempe and Mizerak said their was no way to break into snooker for an outsider at that time because you had to be a part of that society to excel in it.
So is Rotation a "minor" game. Then you are really saying the Phillipines is a "minor" country or culture. If you say 9 ball or 14.1 which are the sports of Americans. And remember snooker is a "minor" game here. You are actually saying America is a "minor" country. Particularly if you come on the boards and claim that our US Champion is a chump. Now we can safely say that Brittiania does not rule the waves anymore so it doesnt matter to me if snooker is a tougher game or if snooker players are better than pool players. I am indifferent. I love em both. But hell If I am going to let some loud mouth player who never won any big tournament come on the boards and put down the US Champion. It just isnt going to cut it. Cause what you are doing is demeaning my "culture".
Geez louise, you're completely overreacting. I posted pretty much the same thing as the TheOne a couple of posts back. How come you didn't say I was "demeaning your culture"?

Why are pool players so sensitive about this topic? Let's be clear...I'm a pool player, not a snooker player. I love playing pool, and I love watching pool. I don't play snooker, and I really don't like watching it either. But the facts clearly suggest that the transition from snooker to pool is easier than the transition from pool to snooker.
 
What you are doing is comparing apples to oranges. The idea that I am overeacting to your ideas are silly. The competition of snooker does not lie in its isolated state. It is played in competition primarily in the UK. Now are the people there imbued with some kind of genetic makeup that makes them superior cue artists than anywhere else. No its because it is part of their culture. They live not only with it but live it. You cant seperate the two. Social conditions and the sport. Is snooker harder than Rotation? Try it for a year and you will not beat an Efren Reyes or a Ronnie Alcano in it either. The science is completely different.
When some guy comes on here and says the US Champion is second rate and not worthy of the title and got lucky I take that as a personal affront. Particularly from a guy who has not excelled in his own sport. What is he saying? That pool is not a worthy sport? That even a second rate snooker player can dominate over a ChampionAmerican pool player? That what my friends and associates consider a highly worthwile effort nothing compared to his sport? I am reacting to nonsense like this.
 
yobagua said:
When some guy comes on here and says the US Champion is second rate and not worthy of the title and got lucky I take that as a personal affront. Particularly from a guy who has not excelled in his own sport. What is he saying? That pool is not a worthy sport? That even a second rate snooker player can dominate over a ChampionAmerican pool player? That what my friends and associates consider a highly worthwile effort nothing compared to his sport? I am reacting to nonsense like this.
Quentin knows exactly what he's doing. He's getting under your skin and John's. Another few posts you'll be so desperate to get at him you'll be paying his air fair and lodge. And don't think he's as inexperienced as he's letting you think. However meaningless they may have been, to date he's won every inter-cuesport challenge that he's entered as far as I recall.

Boro Nut
 
I understand what youre saying Boro. But I been around the block once or twice myself. I been 40 years in a pool hall and seen all kinds of come ons and cons. I learned from the best. Jerry the Greek and his dog King. Cripple Shorty. Cuban Joe. Pancho. No nit wit is going to get my cabbage without me getting the nut on my side. I aint drooling for no tie me kangaroo down sport to come over here and start a ruckus. And I dont need his cash.
But trying going into Chicago and telling them any snooker player can beat them in their "minor" game of Banks or down south as well. You will get strong opposition. Im just discussing what was presented to me for discussing
 
yobagua said:
Well The One. You bring up important points but one that I'd like to take issue with is the "minor game" issue. You see who is to determine whats "minor". Some consider one pocket to be the toughest game in pool. I dont think any one from any country will see the likes of Efren Reyes in that capacity. I dont care how long you practice. Oh he can be beat just like Tiger Woods but eventually even up Efren will beat you in this game.
Now we can debate wether one pocket is a minor game but you have to bring in the issue of culture.
Reading Steve Davis' bio and Jimmy White's bio they lived the lives of snooker. Day in and day out. Now lets go to the Phillipines where Rotation is the number one game. I dont care how long you practive day in and day out those Filipino's like Efren will put a walloping on you in their national game. Rotation is part of their "culture". I think this is why Rempe and Mizerak said their was no way to break into snooker for an outsider at that time because you had to be a part of that society to excel in it.
So is Rotation a "minor" game. Then you are really saying the Phillipines is a "minor" country or culture. If you say 9 ball or 14.1 which are the sports of Americans. And remember snooker is a "minor" game here. You are actually saying America is a "minor" country. Particularly if you come on the boards and claim that our US Champion is a chump. Now we can safely say that Brittiania does not rule the waves anymore so it doesnt matter to me if snooker is a tougher game or if snooker players are better than pool players. I am indifferent. I love em both. But hell If I am going to let some loud mouth player who never won any big tournament come on the boards and put down the US Champion. It just isnt going to cut it. Cause what you are doing is demeaning my "culture".

You seem to be upset by my "minor" phrase. Let me explain:

I don't think any Snooker player has ever claimed he could compete at 1 pocket, banks or rotation with a few months practice. They're not so daft as to suggest such a thing because they know the difference and these games are very niche.

I have never seen a 1 pocket tournament held in any other country than the US, and I've never seen a rotation tournament played outside the Phillipines. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen them.

Snooker on the other hand is played extensively in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Canada, China, Hong Kong, Europe, and many other commonwealth countries from Singapore to Sri Lanka.

Snooker is part of the Asean games and probably as the best chance to be part of the olympics than any cue sport. Although British based players have an advantage I disagree it is the major restrictive element.

Many Thai, Chinese, Australian, Canadian and players from several other countries have believed in themselves enough to go to the UK and succeed. Many of these players have done it with much much less financial backing than an American player might have had.

Do you think a player like Manalo had a better chance of making it at Snooker than one of the Thai players? The Thai players made it where Manalo didn't. Manalo has become a major major force in the world of pool though.

Also do you think John (sorry!) could go to the Phillipines and beat Efren at rotation? Efren is an absolute genius, and no Snooker or Pool player is going to beat him at the games that maximise his skills. But sadly 8 Ball, 9 Ball, and 14.1 are games that provide a much more level playing field at typical pro tournament level races.
 
Well Said Craig!

TheOne said:
You seem to be upset by my "minor" phrase. Let me explain:

I don't think any Snooker player has ever claimed he could compete at 1 pocket, banks or rotation with a few months practice. They're not so daft as to suggest such a thing because they know the difference and these games are very niche.

I have never seen a 1 pocket tournament held in any other country than the US, and I've never seen a rotation tournament played outside the Phillipines. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen them.

Snooker on the other hand is played extensively in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Canada, China, Hong Kong, Europe, and many other commonwealth countries from Singapore to Sri Lanka.

Snooker is part of the Asean games and probably as the best chance to be part of the olympics than any cue sport. Although British based players have an advantage I disagree it is the major restrictive element.

Many Thai, Chinese, Australian, Canadian and players from several other countries have believed in themselves enough to go to the UK and succeed. Many of these players have done it with much much less financial backing than an American player might have had.

Do you think a player like Manalo had a better chance of making it at Snooker than one of the Thai players? The Thai players made it where Manalo didn't. Manalo has become a major major force in the world of pool though.

Also do you think John (sorry!) could go to the Phillipines and beat Efren at rotation? Efren is an absolute genius, and no Snooker or Pool player is going to beat him at the games that maximise his skills. But sadly 8 Ball, 9 Ball, and 14.1 are games that provide a much more level playing field at typical pro tournament level races.

Remember guys this is a "discussion" forum not a "***** & insult" forum. Let's just remember to be kind;)
 
9_Ball_King said:
Remember guys this is a "discussion" forum not a "***** & insult" forum. Let's just remember to be kind;)

You quoted my post, didn't think I insulted anyone in that reply? :confused:
 
I didn't mean you....

TheOne said:
You quoted my post, didn't think I insulted anyone in that reply? :confused:

Not you Craig.....but as I read through the thread I see, shall we call it, some musings/chest-thumping not really conducive to a good "discussion". Your post is great......and I still really love that avatar dude:D
 
Boro Nut said:
Quentin knows exactly what he's doing. He's getting under your skin and John's. Another few posts you'll be so desperate to get at him you'll be paying his air fair and lodge. And don't think he's as inexperienced as he's letting you think. However meaningless they may have been, to date he's won every inter-cuesport challenge that he's entered as far as I recall.

Boro Nut

IMO, that means he's been playing all the wrong people.
 
Have any arrangements been made? Will the actionreport pick it up? Are we looking at shane, john or blackjack?
 
Time has passed and things change. Not everything eminates from the West anymore. Snooker of course is popular in those colonized countries of a once great power. In America we broke away from Colonial powers wishing to develop our own culture and our own history. As an industrial power we developed into a nation of individuals. Our own music, our own industry, our own sports. Pool being one of them and one pocket especially.
Now when you say "minor" are you explaining your terminology or retracting into a "niche" kind of thing. Pretty clumsy transition I say. No One Pocket is not being played worldwide but neither was American Football big anywhere else nor do I think baseball is really being played in Europe. So are they "minor" sports or "niche" sports. As an American I say NO.
I dont object to respecting snooker players. Not at all I am a great fan of Jimmy White. I think Ronnie is fabulous. Davis is a great ambassador. And Hendry is Hendry. But please show some respect for the American pool cueist. I think comparing pool to snooker is about as smart as comparing soccer to football.
What I object to and I repeat is thinking someone like John Schmidt a great cueist is second rate compared to the lowliest of snooker players. He is the US open Champion and deserves the credit that he is due. Thats why its called the MOSCONI cup. We give a great cueist his due. Now if you want to say that poor Willie was playing a moderately easy game and that all those high runs and tournament wins were just a breeze in the game of 14.1 you would sound ridiculous. So does Quentin Hann.
As far as the Thai cueist goes. A man like James Wattana had a very rough time in the UK. Traveling back and forth to his country but he was supported by a benevolent benefactor. THE KING OF THAILAND. Im sure if any one was supported by the head of ones country and given a kingly stipend he could make a go at it anywhere. Perhaps Manalo didnt have that kind of support.
Now lets end this on the word of respect for both sports. Im sure we agree that they are both sports that require top skills and determination. And neither one excels over the other.
 
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All this well lets play longer races or various minor games argument is BS. We should be comparing pro tournament level races only. The whole point of the debate is if each player could compete at pro level in either code. If Pro level pool races aren't adequete to differentiate between who's the best player then what does that say about Pro Pool!

what do you mean this longer races issue is bs? it's no excuse or anything it's just stating the facts which you yourself i think agree with. ("If Pro level pool races aren't adequete to differentiate between who's the best player then what does that say about Pro Pool!")

well it says that the pro pool tournament format isn't good enough to show the best player. exactly. so if you make it a longer race then it becomes more true and the pool player would have the big advantage.

lets reverse it for a minute. say if john schmidt was playing quentin hann in a snooker and pool challenge, would it be fair if the pool part was race to fifty ten ball and the snooker part one frame? quentin misses a long opening red and john manages a 70 break or something then it's over. wouldnt be fair.

saying the longer races argument is bs is wrong because it's completely relevant.
 
I will say only one thing: Snooker and pool are two sports that need to be highly skilled in order to be a Top recognisable player. BUT in the snooker accuracy and lack of luck determines the level of difficulty thus which of two sports has to be more recognised and well payed. Unfortunatelly, for pool the 9-ball is dominant and level luck is pretty high. If 14.1 was the most popular one then things might be better for pool....well that was not only one thing after all :D
 
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