Boro Nut said:
He beat the best players over there. That's who he beat!
New Respect For Snooker Players.
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
He beat the best players over there. That's who he beat!
Chpping a red is basic safety. At pro level there is a lot more to it than that. When I said he didn't have a clue about safety what I meant was he knew the basics but it was pretty easy for him to be out moved without him really knowing what was going on (pool players think 1 pocket). John was very complimentary about Rempe's game. Don't get me wrong Rempe was competitive and I think he won a match before he played John (could somebody who is not as lazy as me please look this up). I do remember Mizerak playing and he did not have the gear Rempe had. What Rempe did kinda proves the point that myself and a few other posters were trying to make. Rempe is a great player and he put in enough time to be fairly competitive. Had he put in more time he would have done better. The problem for players today is that it is much harder to justify as the pool of players is much deeper than it was then. All Rempe had to do was pay his entry and play. Today you have to play there for a year just to qualify for a main tour event.worriedbeef said:
Rempe in my opinion deserves crazy respect for giving it a real go
there's lots of cash over there just waiting to be won and he went after it
it's also a hell of a lot easier (logistically speaking) for the top carom players to try their hand but you don't see too many of them doing it
as hard as it may be, if an American pool player were to actually win a ranking event, he'd probably be the most talked about guy on the circuit and the endorsements would be on par with what Hendry and O'Sullivan get
I guess Rempe saw that
there's lots of cash over there just waiting to be won and he went after it
it's also a hell of a lot easier (logistically speaking) for the top carom players to try their hand but you don't see too many of them doing it
as hard as it may be, if an American pool player were to actually win a ranking event, he'd probably be the most talked about guy on the circuit and the endorsements would be on par with what Hendry and O'Sullivan get
I guess Rempe saw that
"Much easier" implies a comparison, doesn't it? I won't deny that the UK snooker players "sucked" when they participated in that particular pool competition. But to what exactly are you comparing that? What evidence out there that suggests that American pool players had an equally hard (or easier) time competing in foreign snooker events?Cornerman said:
All we have really is Mizerak and Rempe as data, and it's safe to say they didn't exactly excel at snooker. But on the flip side, you have players like Allison, Karen, Peach, Drago, Davis, and numerous others who have not actually "sucked" at pool.
We even have an actual poster that is posting in this very thread that is indisputable evidence that supports the claim that the transition from pool to snooker is easier. Can you not deny chamillionare's very respectable performances in the two IPT events in which he participated?
I don't disagree with what you said here.Cornerman said:
No, I wouldn't call that evidence. If you call that evidence, then I say that a hack like me sucking at pool and then sucking even more on a snooker table gives evidence to the contrary.Cornerman said:
Again, what I bolded implies a comparison. Easier compared to what? Pool to snooker? Doesn't make sense if you say that they came from a "snooker background".Cornerman said:
I, as well as many posters here, never said that the transition from snooker to pool is "easy". Though, I did claim that it is "easier". Easier compared to what? Compared to the transition from pool to snooker. And you can't say there is absolutely no evidence that supports that claim, because that is just ridiculous.Cornerman said:
jsp <~~ uses facts too
EDIT: also want to add that I never claimed that "pool is easier than snooker", but that the "transition" from snooker to pool is
Last edited:
Boro Nut said:
Sorry Boro mate but Jay's the one who is on the money here. Jim Rempe did indeed win several tournaments and titles in uk 8 ball and he won them by beating some very good players indeed, not the least of whom being the legendary Ross McInnes, Keith Brewer, Leo The Hat, Maltese Joe and many others. Hell, even I had the dubious pleasure of losing to all of them, including Jim Rempe more than once
I also recall Rempe giving Steve Davis a rather brisk lesson in uk 8 ball pool beating him in an exhibition challenge about 7-1 before losing I think 7-0 in the snooker return leg.
In fact uk 8 ball had a far bigger tv audience (World of Sport, Saturday)then than it has now and in real terms the prizemoney for the largest of the tournaments was way better than in uk 8 ball now. Even the occasional multi national would be involved in sponsorship (eg The Suzuki British Masters won by Ross). Nowadays, despite as you quite rightly say some very highly talented exponents, uk 8 ball style pool is covered in black and blue marks where all self respecting multi nationals have been prodding it with 10 foot barge poles
chamillionare said:
Quentin, pool is not just 8-ball. There is 9-ball, 10-ball, 14.1, banks, and 1-pocket. The world already knows that snooker players can be top level 8-ball players, as we saw in the IPT.
However, pool is not just 8-ball. You said that you barely needed any practice before competing in a pool event. If that is the case, you should come to the Derby City Classic and try to snap off the banks or the 1-pocket division. And why not give the 14.1 or 9-ball a try too.
Your $100,000 challenge is nothing more than snooker vs 8-ball, not pool. Your challenge would be fair if it included most of the other pool disciplines as well. Snooker contains elements of games such as 14.1 and 9-ball, so I don't see why you will only play 8-ball.
cuetechasaurus said:
The only IPT Tour members/qualifiers genuinely entitled to be considered as 'snooker players' trying out American pool were Quinten Hann (IPT ranked 16th) who had great results, Ronnie O'Sullivan (110th) and Jimmy White (175th) neither of whom exactly advertised the snooker player conversion argument.
Maybe rather than snooker players you are thinking more of Uk style 8 ball players.......such as Appleton (13th), Hill (15th), Boyes (19th), Beaufils (26th), Davies (44th), McKenna (58th), Melling 61st, a fairly minor pro snooker player granted but better known and with more success as a uk 8 ball player), Morris (69th), Shaw (72nd), Raybone (80th), Harrison (82nd) and Saleh (137th).
You are of course correct about Quinten's challenge being snooker v 8 ball and no doubt you also know exactly why he would be so keen to take such a negligible risk bet. Who can blame him, he very nearly got a bite
Quick question- Does O'Sullivan still hold the record for the world's fastest 147? Because Drago plays a bit faster than him, and I'm sure he's ran 147 quite a few times. Anyone know the answer to this?
memikey said:The only IPT Tour members/qualifiers genuinely entitled to be considered as 'snooker players' trying out American pool were Quinten Hann (IPT ranked 16th) who had great results, Ronnie O'Sullivan (110th) and Jimmy White (175th) neither of whom exactly advertised the snooker player conversion argument.
Maybe rather than snooker players you are thinking more of Uk style 8 ball players.......such as Appleton (13th), Hill (15th), Boyes (19th), Beaufils (26th), Davies (44th), McKenna (58th), Melling 61st, a fairly minor pro snooker player granted but better known and with more success as a uk 8 ball player), Morris (69th), Shaw (72nd), Raybone (80th), Harrison (82nd) and Saleh (137th).
You are of course correct about Quinten's challenge being snooker v 8 ball and no doubt you also know exactly why he would be so keen to take such a negligible risk bet. Who can blame him, he very nearly got a bite
You are right, I thought they were snooker players. I could have sworn that I read Karl Boyes was mainly a snooker player.
This also makes me wonder about English 8-ball. It's played on a small table, right? What is it about that game that makes them such good pool players? I've never seen English 8-ball played.
Cornerman said:
I was watching the World Pool Championships over the holidays - the sports networks use billiards as a filler.
Earl was using a jump cue. Drago said he was going to get one.
Alex Lely mentioned that more UK snooker players are turning up on the Euro Tour.
With more snooker players playing the American game, we will be able to test opinions based on a bigger sample
Of course, it won't mean much in the U.S. until some American player wins big on a snooker table, the equivalent of what Lemond and Armstrong did for bike racing
john schmidt said:
Hi John,
I know its not twice as hard but having experienced both games at a reasonable level and knowing the difference between myself and say Ronnie I have no doubt about my statement. But just opinions of course. Snooker and 14.1 have a lot in common.
Drago I believe has the fastest 100 break in around 3 minutes, think it?s on YouTube.
BoroNut still makes the most sense on this endless debate and it's a position I strongly agree with.
AGE is the absolute crux of this debate. I totally agree that no current pool player could make the transition to Snooker even if they practiced for 5 years and moved to the UK.
Could Efren or Earl have become a world snooker champion if that picked up a snooker cue aged 6? of course they could have.
The barriers of entry for snooker at a late age IMO are unquestionably too high.
Pool in large part is an ageless sport and Snooker players will continue to make the transistion.
cuetechasaurus said:
Drago is faster, but he is only a sprinter
1996 UK Championship - Fastest Century - Tony Drago vs John Higgins - Frame 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVaUhlgIa6U
cuetechasaurus said:
Ronnie still holds the record for the fastest 147, as Drago has never had one on tv. Drago does hold the record for the fastest centurary however, and that can be viewed here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HVaUhlgIa6U
This is ronnie's 147 record: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=btmB-p_0QFg
cuetechasaurus said:
Understandable misconception as they all wield a stick as if they could be top snooker players
Karl obviously plays snooker now and again as does nearly all uk style 8 ball players but that's really just for for fun as none of those on the IPT roster bar Melling could even begin to be competitive with the likes of Hann on a snooker table over a lengthy race. Boyezy's girlfriend is a better snooker player than him.....and I'm not joking. The only three current snooker pros who play quite regular uk style 8 ball are Mark Selby, Tom Ford and Chris Melling, though Graham Dott has played a bit in Scotland in previous years.Uk 8 ball tends to be payed on a 7ft x 3.5ft table with nap cloth and snooker style fairly tight pockets although the side pockets are disroportionately more generous to accepting angled pots than a snooker table (or an American pool table for that matter). In fact the commonest basic error I see from uk 8 ball players when first converting to American 8 ball is in sometimes selecting the lower percentage side pocket options instead of the longer pot into the corner. This common decision error is influenced by their brain muscle memory
re uk tables. They learn quick though The latter stages (quarter finals onwards) of one of the two different uk style 8 ball world championships are sometimes played on 8ft x 4ft tables of similar design, simply for better television appearance.
Why are they so good at pool? Because they are all layabout good for nothing gamblers with nothing better to do with their time of course (sorry Daz, Boyzey, Mick et al)
I think the small playing surface and tighter corner pockets which they are familiar with combine to give them a solid grounding in both positional play and potting ability. They are used to having very little leeway in how much of the pocket they can steal in order to assist cue ball positioning aspects for the next ball. After they have learned how to factor in the additional leeway which the American pockets give them in this respect their confidence is usually sky high on American tables which in turn has a knock-on effect in better play. They learn very quickly the different frequency of how often running side type shots are needed as opposed to the more common stun and draw shots on uk equipment.
They do have some trouble with an apparent "slide" effect when banking off American cushions as opposed to uk style tables. This was particularly prevalent on some of the tables covered with new IPT cloth.
Just my tuppence worth attempt at answering your question cutechasauros. Thankfully I was never as good as them or wouldn't have had the career I've now got, so don't take any of it as gospel. They are mostly top whack sound blokes and I am certain that if they read this and think there is enough interest one or two would give you any reasons I may have missed, though it's probably difficult for them to do it fully without appearing to blow their own trumpets
Last edited:
i totally agree raybo.raybo147 said:
hi
spot on russ.i would have said the same thing but i type too slow.thanks for telling it like it is.see you at derby palRuss Chewning said:I think we are on the same page. The "ZOMG, the snooker stroke is just the NUTZ, and can't be beat!!!!!!!!!" crowd need to qualify the statement "It's harder for top level Pool players to play top level Snooker than it is for top level Snooker players to play top level Pool." statement with the addendum of "because there is no realistic competition for snooker, or even many snooker tables for that matter, in America. The same is not true for pool in Europe."
Anyone who says it is just because snooker players are much more talented, is just being a fanboy. The top American (and international) poolplayers have what it takes to reach the top in snooker, which is simply: the hand-eye coordination to make the long, tough shot, the mental ability to make the tough shot when possibly the whole match rides on one shot, the the burning desire to win.
That's ALL it takes, people. If Efren Reyes grew up in a country that played only snooker, and he played it from 10 years old on, he'd have a World Snooker Championship under his belt.
As far as I know, all the top poolplayers peak in their late 20's, early 30's. The peak might be earlier for snooker players, but whatever that peak is for snooker, I am SURE that if any of our top players grew up in England, and had the time to practice to reach the top of the game and peak in the proper age range, they'd do JUST as well. As far as I know, Brits, Scotsmen, Irishmen, and other assorted countries don't have the market cornered on good eyesight and hand/eye coordination.
And ANOTHER thing.... Just laying out a blanket challenge "Well if pool players are SSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo good, then why don't they practice up on a snooker table from a young age, and come over and snap off some of this easy snooker money", is simply ludicrous.
Why? Well Thailand has snooker tables EVERYWHERE, but they still don't have many top top professional snooker players. Why, because they are too far away from England, and have little chance to compete against top snooker players.
God d**n it, becoming a top player in ANY game REQUIRES playing against top talent!! Do you understand, you snooker fanboys??? REQUIRES IT.
American snooker players have little chance to play against top snooker talent. European players play in local events with Hohmann, Souquet, Fiejen, etc...etc...etc ALL the time. I am QUITE sure that every snooker player who tries to convert to pool gets his head beat in by the top players for a good 2-3 years, even AFTER his fundementals have been perfected.
Gee, that's about the time it takes an American pool player to start winning major events after he pretty much has his full game together, innit?
Russ
This started out as a new found respect for snooker players. Im sorry if I got caught up in the negative aspect when Quentinn Hann chimed in with his put down of John Schmidt. I think John is a rare talent and we are fortunate to have him grace our sport with not only his abilities but with his sportsmanship. For someone who is known in his sport to have no-class and causes a ruckus wherever he goes I should have known better to respond.
I have been watching snooker from across the pond for over 10 years. I have a friend who ships me all his copies of the matches. From Alex Higgins and Ray Reardon and Joe Davis on down to today. I have nothing but RESPECT for their game. I even am a fan of English Billiards.
I highly respect Steve Davis' pool game and I applaud him that he is making this transition well. He played brilliantly in the WPC in 2005 and is always a threat to knock you out of the standings. Drago as well, like Jay said, is "the real thing". I now hear John Higgins is coming around to it too.
As for Efren taking up snooker. Does the man have to constantly amaze you to prove that he is a special cue talent. Dont forget he won a medal in the the Asian olympics once in snooker. Im sure if had put his talents to it he could had done well but he lives in the Phillipines and there is no money in it there. Its rotation, baby. And is he not still the worlds best as he proved it when he recently drilled Ronnie Alcano the 2005 world champ in a set of Rotation. Would any snooker player like to get 3 months of practice and challenge Efren to a Rotation match? I dont think so.
John thanks for participating on this forum. You are a US Champion and we are proud of you.
I have been watching snooker from across the pond for over 10 years. I have a friend who ships me all his copies of the matches. From Alex Higgins and Ray Reardon and Joe Davis on down to today. I have nothing but RESPECT for their game. I even am a fan of English Billiards.
I highly respect Steve Davis' pool game and I applaud him that he is making this transition well. He played brilliantly in the WPC in 2005 and is always a threat to knock you out of the standings. Drago as well, like Jay said, is "the real thing". I now hear John Higgins is coming around to it too.
As for Efren taking up snooker. Does the man have to constantly amaze you to prove that he is a special cue talent. Dont forget he won a medal in the the Asian olympics once in snooker. Im sure if had put his talents to it he could had done well but he lives in the Phillipines and there is no money in it there. Its rotation, baby. And is he not still the worlds best as he proved it when he recently drilled Ronnie Alcano the 2005 world champ in a set of Rotation. Would any snooker player like to get 3 months of practice and challenge Efren to a Rotation match? I dont think so.
John thanks for participating on this forum. You are a US Champion and we are proud of you.