Niel's F. Dennis O's, Mica's racking tricks

T

TomInFaribo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since Shane is getting so much heat on racking I thought we might want to take a look at other players.
Nie lLongoni Benelux Open Niels Feijen vs Karl Boyes HD YouTube
Niel @ 6:25 touching the balls WITH BOTH HANDS after Karl racked and @ 25:00 Karl is calling Niel on his racking techniques.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW8Jpoy7T8

Dennis O
Swanee 18 - FINAL MATCH / Mika Immonen vs Dennis Orcollo / Feb 2014
@ 4:15 Touching 1 ball after removing rack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfygzMIT_k0

Mica
Same match playing Dennis above.
@54:30 touching balls after racking

My point being they all do it. I didn't do lots of viewing/searching. We may hear lots of but, but, but. But I say I've got it on vid.

The only one I saw on the stream messing with the balls after the rack was removed was Mica. He was stretching the cloth with a push/pound affect and always on the same side of rack. Who ever was in the booth stated he was just checking for to make sure rack was tight. I disagree. This may be the newest technique in creating wing ball gaps IMHO without touching the balls.

Dennis O is a class act along with Shane in my book. Can't speak for Niel. I have seen Mica do things to shark his opponent. Even at this open when he played Niel he made several non-sportsman moves.

Its sad that people from the US try to sling Mud on their own US players when no one really knows.
The only thing we do know is they have all touched the balls at one time or another after the rack is removed.

The other thing we do KNOW is JAY checked Shane's but not Dennis's rack in the championship match. Why was that? What's fair is fair. Right? We also do know Mark Wilson was calling for a time clock on Dennis O racking in his semifinal against Shane. The only one that should be removed from all this controversy is Shane as He didn't check any racks and played the best pool I have ever seen.

Congrats to you SVB!!!!!! You make the majority of US players proud to be American.
 
They all know how to make the ball on the break. They ALL KNOW! I know... of course they know. Haters, it seems, are just gonna hate.
 
cleary said:
They all know how to make the ball on the break. They ALL KNOW! I know... of course they know. Haters, it seems, are just gonna hate.
Click to expand...

They have to hate on something.

When Corey D. was pattern racking at the USBTC, some people (including myself) defended him, because it took skill to rack and break the pattern to get a combo on the nine. The rest are pattern racking or massaging the rack to get what they want. The way all the haters see things, is they would rather the players make no balls, than to pattern rack and get a good layout.
 
the rules don't work

DAVE_M said:
They have to hate on something.

When Corey D. was pattern racking at the USBTC, some people (including myself) defended him, because it took skill to rack and break the pattern to get a combo on the nine. The rest are pattern racking or massaging the rack to get what they want. The way all the haters see things, is they would rather the players make no balls, than to pattern rack and get a good layout.
Click to expand...



The rules call for most balls to be "randomly placed" or words to similar effect. That doesn't mean pattern rack but all or nearly all players do indeed pattern rack. Anyone wanting to check that is welcome to.

The rules need to be changed to restrict the balls to two patterns, one the mirror image of the other. "Random" can't be enforced, a pattern can be.

Always ways to cheat, and that is what deliberately creating gaps by either player is. Doesn't matter if they do it with the rack down, touching balls with the rack gone, or by moving the cloth around. I do have to note that people touching balls can as easily be closing gaps as opening them so perhaps they are within the spirit of the rules even if the rack is gone.

Ultimately pool is a gentleman's game. There are many places to cheat that there are no defenses to prevent. For cash, best to not play cheaters. In tournaments there is often no choice. Then do you wallow in the mud with them or take the high road and accept that you are giving them an edge, in effect a spot? For years I wallowed in the mud with the other players. I let them make the rules and I played the same. Now I prefer to just not play the cheaters. Pro's don't have that luxury.

Hu
 
cleary said:
They all know how to make the ball on the break. They ALL KNOW! I know... of course they know. Haters, it seems, are just gonna hate.
Click to expand...

That was pretty much Niels point. Rack your own sucks.


P.S.
Whatever Shane is doing is not known but to make the corner ball go straight in when the nine is on the spot is like magic. Or perhaps its not and everyone just needs more practice.
 
I watched majority of the tournament. I didn't catch Shane touching the balls after them being racked at all.

Where is this accusation coming from? Did anyone not watch the final? Shane would rack, Dennis would inspect. I did not see once that either player touched the balls after racking them.

Even with neutral rackers, I will bet my money on people complaining about something.
 
ShootingArts said:
The rules need to be changed to restrict the balls to two patterns, one the mirror image of the other. "Random" can't be enforced, a pattern can be.



Hu
Click to expand...

I fear that establishing pre-determined patterns (especially just two) will make the game even more robotic than it already is. Players will figure out the best break for those two patterns and never vary from it. That could lead to just one kind of break. Instructors will teach that particular kind of break and no other.

Pattern racking solution:

Breaker racks the balls in any pattern he wants. Opponent has the option to require the breaker to exchange the position any two balls (except the one and nine or ten, of course).

After the position exchange the breaker racks the balls tight and breaks. No touching the balls after you've lifted the triangle.

This solution is based on the theory that you can destroy any pattern by exchanging the position of just two balls. Try it; you'll see that it works.

No software, no sheets with pre-determined racks, no nothing -- just ten seconds to exchange the position of two balls.
 
After all the threads about the break, rack rigging, touching balls and all I have been having a crazy thought go through my mind. With some trepidation I now give the most radical way to avoid all these problems. Third party breakers, imagine pulling someone out of the stand hand them a cue and tell them to give it a whack. Bet nine ball becomes a whole lot less predictable. Just think about it, this is not the first 'out of the box' thought I've had. Another was to make one pocket more interesting once all the balls are above the middle string the pockets change ends, And no I gave up drinking years ago.
 
TomInFaribo said:
Since Shane is getting so much heat on racking I thought we might want to take a look at other players.
Nie lLongoni Benelux Open Niels Feijen vs Karl Boyes HD YouTube
Niel @ 6:25 touching the balls WITH BOTH HANDS after Karl racked and @ 25:00 Karl is calling Niel on his racking techniques.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW8Jpoy7T8

Dennis O
Swanee 18 - FINAL MATCH / Mika Immonen vs Dennis Orcollo / Feb 2014
@ 4:15 Touching 1 ball after removing rack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfygzMIT_k0

Mica
Same match playing Dennis above.
@54:30 touching balls after racking

My point being they all do it. I didn't do lots of viewing/searching. We may hear lots of but, but, but. But I say I've got it on vid.

The only one I saw on the stream messing with the balls after the rack was removed was Mica. He was stretching the cloth with a push/pound affect and always on the same side of rack. Who ever was in the booth stated he was just checking for to make sure rack was tight. I disagree. This may be the newest technique in creating wing ball gaps IMHO without touching the balls.

Dennis O is a class act along with Shane in my book. Can't speak for Niel. I have seen Mica do things to shark his opponent. Even at this open when he played Niel he made several non-sportsman moves.

Its sad that people from the US try to sling Mud on their own US players when no one really knows.
The only thing we do know is they have all touched the balls at one time or another after the rack is removed.

The other thing we do KNOW is JAY checked Shane's but not Dennis's rack in the championship match. Why was that? What's fair is fair. Right? We also do know Mark Wilson was calling for a time clock on Dennis O racking in his semifinal against Shane. The only one that should be removed from all this controversy is Shane as He didn't check any racks and played the best pool I have ever seen.

Congrats to you SVB!!!!!! You make the majority of US players proud to be American.
Click to expand...

Since Neil's feels like Shane is some kind of a trick racker, I am very sure Shane would go over to Europe to play a race to 50 in 10 ball winner breaks with a neutral racker. I really think Neil's should prove a point and play Shane even in a big money match with someone else racking. The other option would be to just shut up..
 
Great post here. This needs to be brought up more, how Shane never checked the rack of orcollo and Nick on that final day at all, and Jay was checking at random.

From the deleted niels post on his Facebook, tells me even he thinks he was wrong to post that.

Shane put up with it all like the best in the world would.
 
markgw said:
Since Neil's feels like Shane is some kind of a trick racker, I am very sure Shane would go over to Europe to play a race to 50 in 10 ball winner breaks with a neutral racker. I really think Neil's should prove a point and play Shane even in a big money match with someone else racking. The other option would be to just shut up..
Click to expand...

lol, we all know that is never going to happen. Anyone from Europe would be at least a 5-7 game dog in a race to 50 with Shane.
 
markgw said:
Since Neil's feels like Shane is some kind of a trick racker, I am very sure Shane would go over to Europe to play a race to 50 in 10 ball winner breaks with a neutral racker. I really think Neil's should prove a point and play Shane even in a big money match with someone else racking. The other option would be to just shut up..
Click to expand...

i suspect alternate break would make more sense in that scenario not winners
 
Lets try to figure this out

1. Rack your own. Players and Fans *****

2. Opponent racks. Players and Fans *****

3. Ref Racks. Players and Fans *****

4. Magic rack. Players and Fans *****

I could go on and on. But what is the point. Someone is always going to *****.

Here is a novel idea. Why not just sit back and enjoy watching the greatest players in the world do what they do best.
 
You forgot one...

Poolshootindon said:
1. Rack your own. Players and Fans *****

2. Opponent racks. Players and Fans *****

3. Ref Racks. Players and Fans *****

4. Magic rack. Players and Fans *****

I could go on and on. But what is the point. Someone is always going to *****.

Here is a novel idea. Why not just sit back and enjoy watching the greatest players in the world do what they do best.
Click to expand...

5. Shane wins Players and Fans of other players *****

Jaden
 
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