No more secrets in pool

CJ Wiley said:
Vernon Elliot had some serious secrets - were you lucky enough, Mike, to meet him in your adventures? Vernon was called "the Faceless Man" and had a brutally effective game on all tables, playing most games.

We played in Indianapolis when I was 19....what an experience that was, 12 hours of $200 a game 9-ball on the bar box at Tommy Staton's place.....and I had no idea who he was, although it was certainly a "tiger by the tail". LoL

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Only 12 hours?
 
My point of view is it doesn't matter what some else says or does. It is up to me to find the answers about pool.

It is up to me to develop my style of play, to understand what is happening on the table. What works for me.

There have been those at the room that want to tell me their secerts about pool.....they aren't secerts just personal style of play techniques. I'll listen, evaluate what was stated and go about my business.

it is sad that there is a trend that only professional knows how to play pool. There are pro level players at there but the only reason they don't play at the pro level is because of the current state of pro pool.

I'm in this boat. Just to much hassle for the investment to start. Plus 9 ball is not for me nor is bar box. This doesn't mean I don't have the skill to play pro level. I do......regardless what others might think about my skill, which they have never seen.

Ask pros in all sports on how they got and maintain there skill.....the answer will be practice and not knowing secrets.

That's my secret.......
 
IMO the secret to being a top pro pool player is start playing at an early age and having natural ability, hit a lot of balls and hang with top players while learning. Johnnyt

PS: Most top American pool players came up from the same mold. Home table with father or other relative a good player and teacher. Family or relative owned a poolroom. Started playing at 10 or younger. They all left school at 16 or before, because they were making such good money in the begining, until they were known. Then no sneaking up, just giving too much weight.
 
Yah thats the mold!

Johnnyt said:
IMO the secret to being a top pro pool player is start playing at an early age and having natural ability, hit a lot of balls and hang with top players while learning. Johnnyt

PS: Most top American pool players came up from the same mold. Home table with father or other relative a good player and teacher. Family or relative owned a poolroom. Started playing at 10 or younger. They all left school at 16 or before, because they were making such good money in the begining, until they were known. Then no sneaking up, just giving too much weight.
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You got that one pretty well nailed! Agreed!
 
I see high level players miss shots, miss position, miss kick shots etc.

Yes, there are "secrets".
 
336Robin said:
Secrets perhaps not. Useful references and specific details on how to utilize them...absolutely.

I had a top banker show me a reference method he used and all he knew to tell me after showing to me was....all I can say is that is a powerful thing in pool. It took awhile to understand how to use it. Eventually I found a better reference method that worked over a larger range of bank shots.

Are these things secret? Probably not but are they widely known and used.....absolutely not. I never say there aren't secrets when I find someone who can perform a skill at a much higher rate of completion that I can. When I do I ask them how they do it. Will they tell? Not always.

I am playing a man who can kick a cue ball off the bottom rail and pass bank a ball near the next rail very close to his pocket in one pocket. There is no way hes telling how he goes about figuring out a reference for that but he has one, first a reference then a feel for the application of it. Would I like to know it. Oh yes, its the difference between being able to learn a specific skill and hitting a million balls. There are special keys that make things easier in many aspects, but there isn't anything that covers the whole gamut of the skills in pool not when shot making is only a piece of the puzzle. Reference Systems that make use easier yes absolutely. Can they be a valuable secret/method that helps you learn...yes.
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Good post. I'll pay to learn something that improves my game everyday
 
If by "secrets" we mean that which is unknown to us, I believe there are some. And basically what you're doing when you match up with someone is betting that you know more secrets than the other guy.

One other thought: I think when you get to the point of knowing "a lot" of secrets" the game gets more fun because what's happening on the table is that you get to use all the secrets you know to solve the puzzle on the table. And the more secrets you know the easier you can take a rack apart or put your opponent in a death trap.

If you're not having fun at pool, then you just don't know enough secrets.

Lou Figueroa
starting to
sound like CJ
 
The application of the secret

lfigueroa said:
If by "secrets" we mean that which is unknown to us, I believe there are some. And basically what you're doing when you match up with someone is betting that you know more secrets than the other guy.

One other thought: I think when you get to the point of knowing "a lot" of secrets" the game gets more fun because what's happening on the table is that you get to use all the secrets you know to solve the puzzle on the table. And the more secrets you know the easier you can take a rack apart or put your opponent in a death trap.

If you're not having fun at pool, then you just don't know enough secrets.

Lou Figueroa
starting to
sound like CJ
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.....and with a synergistic application of the secret, kind of like when a Knight swings his sword he releases his touch of synergy, all of the planets align and you just swing this way and that and run out from all over. That's how it was always meant to be done. Be one with the ball and the planets, after all they are very much alike well maybe a touch.
 
There are no more secrets, but many more SILVER BULLET'S and a 55 gallon drum of snake oil. Johnnyt
 
CJ Wiley said:
Vernon Elliot had some serious secrets - were you lucky enough, Mike, to meet him in your adventures? Vernon was called "the Faceless Man" and had a brutally effective game on all tables, playing most games.

We played in Indianapolis when I was 19....what an experience that was, 12 hours of $200 a game 9-ball on the bar box at Tommy Staton's place.....and I had no idea who he was, although it was certainly a "tiger by the tail". LoL
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Never ran into him, but heard stories from Robert LeBlanc. I was told he was at the top level for many years though nobody had even heard of him. He probably put a cramp in a bunch of road players' budgets. :)

Best,
Mike
 
The next thing I knew the guy had pulled out a pistol and put it on the table

Mikjary said:
Never ran into him, but heard stories from Robert LeBlanc. I was told he was at the top level for many years though nobody had even heard of him. He probably put a cramp in a bunch of road players' budgets. :)

Best,
Mike
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I was playing Robert in a small bar in Illinois one time and a guy started betting on the side with me. At that point I ran a few racks and got the guy 5 games loser. The next thing I knew the guy had pulled out a pistol and put it on the table in front of him. He somehow thought he was getting hustled and was going to "strong arm" us back out of the money......we just quit and left the guy sitting there.....things got really tense!!!

Robert probably remembers what happened better than me at this point, it was just a blur to me. LoL .....some strange things happen sometimes when gambling at pool.....especially around alcohol and tush-hogs. ;)
 
CJ Wiley said:
I was playing Robert in a small bar in Illinois one time and a guy started betting on the side with me. At that point I ran a few racks and got the guy 5 games loser. The next thing I knew the guy had pulled out a pistol and put it on the table in front of him. He somehow thought he was getting hustled and was going to "strong arm" us back out of the money......we just quit and left the guy sitting there.....things got really tense!!!

Robert probably remembers what happened better than me at this point, it was just a blur to me. LoL .....some strange things happen sometimes when gambling at pool.....especially around alcohol and tush-hogs. ;)
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I traveled with Robert and always had adventures. Robert seemed like a magnet for drama. He could usually talk up a game wherever we went. He'd be your best friend, or get spitting mad and woof till you had to play. :wink:

He woofed at Tommy Spencer in Chicago to play some on the bar rag. Tommy liked the big tables and Robert was strong on the smaller tables. Finally, Tommy agreed, Robert won the flip and ran the session. Tommy got so mad, we had to get between them to save Robert's a$$. :grin-square:

Best,
Mike
 
hmmm

But TOI! CTE! TNA! NYPD! Lol We should be friends StraightP99. I used to wrry about things like this a lot when I first started playing and now I watch videos out of interest, but no matter how many theories I look at, as long as I look at the contact point and and stroke straight it goes in the hole! That being said I have only been playing a year and a half and after playing in a tournament this weekend realize and that I I have about half of the ways to move the cue ball figured out and even those I can't fully control. I really just need to due drills for patters that include shot making. If I throw in lots of speed control patterns I'm good to go. I know this will help my ball pocketing because it will force me to focus and get steely rather than just hit balls.
 
Place the cue ball and an object ball on the rail obove the side pocket. Both frozen to the rail. Now shoot the object ball in the corner past the side pocket. Is there a secret to making this shot more consistently? Don't know if there are secrets but there are tips that may not be common knowledge.
 
jburkm002 said:
... Don't know if there are secrets but there are tips that may not be common knowledge.
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If we define "common knowledge" as what has been written down and published, I think there very, very few "secrets" left.

However, pool players don't read, so among pool players there are lots of secrets. The "ten times fuller" system is a good example. It is a way to figure out where the front object ball of a frozen pair will go depending on where you hit it. Hint: it does not go along the tangent/kiss line.

The system was described in one of Bob Byrne's columns around 1978 and is in one of his books -- probably his "Advanced Technique" book. It has been described and discussed many times on the InterWebz.

Fast forward to about 2005. I'm talking to a Hall-of-Famer and he wants to show me a new shot he just learned. It's a form of "ten times fuller" but with a very restricted setup. I showed him the general system.

Continue forward to a year ago. I'm at an expo playing one pocket with one of the top 10 players in the US. A frozen ball shot comes up for him and I say, "Why didn't you just shoot the 10?" He was surprised that you could force a frozen ball through a blocker. That's a shot that has some utility at one pocket and straight pool.

Another example of lack of pool literacy would be Jean Balukas who said she had never read a pool book. That was back before Ray Martin's 99 Critical Shots which was nearly the first pool book with a lot of good info, so books could not have helped her nearly as much as playing with/around great players in her father's room. I'd give her a pass, but not the others.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If we define "common knowledge" as what has been written down and published, I think there very, very few "secrets" left.

However, pool players don't read, so among pool players there are lots of secrets. The "ten times fuller" system is a good example. It is a way to figure out where the front object ball of a frozen pair will go depending on where you hit it. Hint: it does not go along the tangent/kiss line.

The system was described in one of Bob Byrne's columns around 1978 and is in one of his books -- probably his "Advanced Technique" book. It has been described and discussed many times on the InterWebz.

Fast forward to about 2005. I'm talking to a Hall-of-Famer and he wants to show me a new shot he just learned. It's a form of "ten times fuller" but with a very restricted setup. I showed him the general system.

Continue forward to a year ago. I'm at an expo playing one pocket with one of the top 10 players in the US. A frozen ball shot comes up for him and I say, "Why didn't you just shoot the 10?" He was surprised that you could force a frozen ball through a blocker. That's a shot that has some utility at one pocket and straight pool.
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For those who don't know this "secret" and want to learn it, see:

NV B.56 - Bob Jewett's ten-times-fuller frozen-object-ball aiming system

Here's an example where it is very useful to know in one-pocket:

HSV B.7 - one-pocket frozen-ball spot shot

Regards,
Dave
 
I learned something recently that elevated my game, something I have never heard discussed before, even searched the internet. Bert Kinister dropped a few bombshell secrets in some of his videos. There are certain shots that are 99% make for me when others or 80 and below, thanks to bert. I still have trouble with spot shots in a game situation. If i am practicing and I get the feel of the shot I can make 9 out of 10 but for a one of one attempt I am about 50/50. I need to improve that shot.

There are still some secrets I am sure. Many are not true or best practices. There are some truths that I have become to be guided by on my continued path of knowledge

1) aiming and your stroke needs to be automatic
2) Any system that makes you pivot when lining up us pure bunk.
3) you must be able to find center CB
4) your stroke must be straight
5) your final backswing must be slow with a smooth transition
6) PSR is essential
7) lining up the shot in a consistent fashion and have a consistent stable stance with enough clearance.

If I miss a shot it is almost always a breakdown in one of those. Not because I am missing some piece of hidden knowledge.

So prove me wrong, tell me a secret.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If we define "common knowledge" as what has been written down and published, I think there very, very few "secrets" left.

However, pool players don't read, so among pool players there are lots of secrets. The "ten times fuller" system is a good example. It is a way to figure out where the front object ball of a frozen pair will go depending on where you hit it. Hint: it does not go along the tangent/kiss line.

QUOTE]

Bob, I have found that the "Ten Times Fuller" system can be changed by the amount of draw you put on the cue ball. Did you experience this?
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Call them "secrets," or "tips," "wisdom," or even my favorite "guidance".

Secrets in pool are simply short-cuts in most cases, to get where you want your game to be faster and more effectively.

It's like traveling in a foreign land, it's best to hire a guide to show you the "secret" ways to get from point A to point B rather than get lost trying yourself. Many players spend years trying to improve and hit a wall that is self imposed....the simply get lost.

My techniques and systems have been passed down from many top players through the years and have kept me on the right path. I never could have reached the top position in the world without this knowledge.

Call them "secrets," "tips," "wisdom," or even {my favorite} "guidance"......whatever you call this knowledge, it's prudent to get access to it, and when you learn it's also good to share it with others that would appreciate it.

What it comes down to is some people like to get directions and some like to find their own way. I believe a mixture of both is probably ideal, although I prefer to get help from experienced players when possible......Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, Corey Deuel and Hunter Lombardo helped me when I first started back playing in Tunica and it's now that I see how vital their input was to my game returning to 98% (2% to go ;))
 
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