Non forfeit at White Diamonds - Whats up with that!!!

SUPERSTAR said:
Forfeit him, and let whoever got him in the calcutta, cry like a sissy, and let them skin their horse alive for not showing up on time.
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Ha, right.

This is, imho, one of pool's biggest problems: lack of integrity and the dissing of us normal players.

It's one reason I slowed my tourney play to a crawl. I rarely take the time anymore to enter as I've been burnt by time-wasters too often, players and directors.

Jeff Livingston
 
JoeyA said:
While I completely understand an opponent wanting to wait for a top player to return to the tournament area, even past the allotted time for various reasons, it just isn't fair.

Simply answered based upon these conditions, YES, a forfeiture should have been Jesse's fate.

The rules should be the same for all players, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

The other thing that I REALLY can't stand is when a tournament director will ask the player, "Well, so-and-so isn't here. What do you want to do? :confused:

The tournament director should never leave it up to either of the players to change the rules of the event.:mad:
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Or they say after the starting time, "So n So just called and he'll be here in 15 minutes." It happened to me in the last tourney I was in. I waited, and lost the match:mad:...but won the tourney. :grin-square: The (always) late guy bombed early.

The pool gods love me.

Jeff Livingston
 
pt109 said:
I agree with not having to cough up somebody's calcutta money....
...but I DON'T agree that there should be no repercussions...
In a calcutta, you have a responsibility to play your hardest, same thing
applies if there is a gate or added money involved.

As a TD, if a player didn't have a good reason to miss his match, I would
bar him for a year ( assuming it's a regular tournament or tour)
...third time, barred for life.

In the 60's,when you could buy a new Fairlane for less than $2,500, golf
generated $100,000 calcuttas....this would not have happened if the
players were not responsible and honorable.
Golf is doing pretty good right now.
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Ok but they have to give me half of what they win,right?:wink: Not arguing, just asking.And no,I do not have to play my hardest cause I came for the tourney and not the calcutta.Sometimes I like to dump myself just for the punishment.I could care less who is along for the ride. Calcuttas are just another black eye in pool if you ask me.

And onemore no.....the player late for the match should never ever be asked by anyone if he can still play the match.How stupid is that!!??

I just had a good idea.Lets make some rules and play by them.:eek: John B.
 
JAM said:
I agree 100 percent. How could anyone expect the player to pay back the calcutta railbirds?

Most of the calcutta railbirds don't give the player a bone even when the player wins.

The player doesn't owe any allegiance to the calcutta. That is there for the pure enjoyment of backers, railbirds, and the viewing public.

Everybody should know this, and if they don't, well, it's buyer beware anytime you buy anyone in a calcutta. You risk losing your dough.

It would be like me going to the horse races and asking for them to pay me back for my expenses at the track if my horse is scratched. Gimme a break!
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First of all, JAM, if a horse is scratched, there are refunds involved....
..and if the jockey or driver is deemed to have not tried to win, there
are repercussions for him as well by the racing authorities.

I feel players should respect a tournament with a calcutta, or not enter.
I like bidding in a calcutta, but sometimes I look at the entries and decide
to take a pass...I want a fair run for my money.

I think some partnerships and family members should only be put on
auction as ENTRIES,(you buy one, you buy them all).

If we want to clean up the game, this is a good place to start.
No wonder so many gamblers go to casinos...you know you're going
against it, but you expect it to be on the square.
 
pt109 said:
First of all, JAM, if a horse is scratched, there are refunds involved....
..and if the jockey or driver is deemed to have not tried to win, there
are repercussions for him as well by the racing authorities.

I feel players should respect a tournament with a calcutta, or not enter.
I like bidding in a calcutta, but sometimes I look at the entries and decide
to take a pass...I want a fair run for my money.

I think some partnerships and family members should only be put on
auction as ENTRIES,(you buy one, you buy them all).

If we want to clean up the game, this is a good place to start.
No wonder so many gamblers go to casinos...you know you're going
against it, but you expect it to be on the square.
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I see where you're coming from, but the thing is that the horse that was scratched owes me nothing as the spectator. That is my point.

Same with the calcuttas. They are there for the entertainment of the attendees. The players sometimes do get involved and buy themselves, but the majority of the calcutta participants are railbirds, backers, et cetera.

You can't compare pool to golf in this regard, though. There's no parallel there since golf payouts are so much higher, not to mention that there's a legitimate golf tour for pros.

In pool it's the Wild Wild West with each player trying to eke out a living for themselves. There are players who give away product for free, only to get slapped in the face by those who sell it on eBay. There are players who contribute their time to charity events, but you don't read about these folks. Instead, you got some Teddy Bear cat writing about a dump. The negative garners more attention than the positive, but make no mistake about it, there are positives out there in pool. Nobody cares to notice them.
 
JAM said:
You can't compare pool to golf in this regard, though. There's no parallel there since golf payouts are so much higher, not to mention that there's a legitimate golf tour for pros.
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Ah, but you CAN compare golf to pool.
Before golf hit the big time, there was more money in gambling than tour
play, just like pool in the 60's and 70's.

I started working in a pro shop when I was 12..my boss came from that
era....good golfers were often known as 'golf bums'..he told me a lot.

Sam Snead made the transition from money player to tournament player
Tim Holland stayed on the action side...he later won the world back-
gammon championship.

Golfers were ready for their big break....
..I'd like to see pool get ready for theirs.
 
pt109 said:
Ah, but you CAN compare golf to pool.
Before golf hit the big time, there was more money in gambling than tour
play, just like pool in the 60's and 70's.

I started working in a pro shop when I was 12..my boss came from that
era....good golfers were often known as 'golf bums'..he told me a lot.

Sam Snead made the transition from money player to tournament player
Tim Holland stayed on the action side...he later won the world back-
gammon championship.

Golfers were ready for their big break....
..I'd like to see pool get ready for theirs.
Click to expand...

Golf always has been a rich man's high. I did a job about the history of golf in my area, and I was shocked at learning how it advanced through the years, how the country clubs treated it, house pros, caddies picked up on the corner like laborers, et cetera.

Pool isn't a rich man's high; rather, it's a working man's recreation in most circles.
 
John Brumback said:
How about this.....If i have to pay them back if something happens and I'm late for the match or say..I just don't feel like playing.. then when I win or get in the $ they HAVE to pay me half.Fairs fair,right?

Example: I've been on the road for a month or two,sick of pool and pool players and I lose the first round in a stinkin bar rag tourney with like 150 players..well,I decide to just go home right then.Well the next time I'm down that way some ***** wants me to give him half his $ back that HE blew on me in the calcutta.Yeah right,I told him to go take hike. Is it really any wonder why pool stays in the shitter.Not in my mind it's not.
That might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard of in my life of pool, that I might have to pay someone back for something I'm not even in for. I paid "(MY) ENTRY FEE"
I'm just so glad I don't do this crap for a living anymore.The player should never have to pay anyone back in a stinkin calcutta!!!! period. John B.
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It does seem a little silly to me if someone thinks the player should have to give the calcutta buyer half of the calcutta buy because the player decided not to play in the match.

HOWEVER, if a player is of the mindset that he may or may not finish the tournament, because he may not be playing well, or because he got knocked into the one loss bracket, or he's not feeling well, or he's tired, or his wife wants him home or he just wants to go home (pick one), then that player should tell the tournament director BEFORE THE CALCUTTA to remove him from the Calcutta list.
 
Ahhhh Sam Snead, he taught my dad how to golf; was friends with my grandfather & my dad would caddy for him some back when he gambled! I agree with your analogy though :)


pt109 said:
Ah, but you CAN compare golf to pool.
Before golf hit the big time, there was more money in gambling than tour
play, just like pool in the 60's and 70's.

I started working in a pro shop when I was 12..my boss came from that
era....good golfers were often known as 'golf bums'..he told me a lot.

Sam Snead made the transition from money player to tournament player
Tim Holland stayed on the action side...he later won the world back-
gammon championship.

Golfers were ready for their big break....
..I'd like to see pool get ready for theirs.
Click to expand...
 
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Calcutta

You buy someone in the Calcutta and you are assuming whatever risk comes with it. If they forfeit or don't show or go home, looks like you just wasted your money.

That's how I feel about it. There's just too many variables again. It would be nice if the buyer could be protected a little more, but it's just too difficult. They can't do full blown investigations into why someone didn't make it on time for their match.

It's easy for me, I just don't participate.

And when I still see people selling for $4000, it doesn't appear to be that much of an issue with those guys that are buying.
 
pt109 said:
Ah, but you CAN compare golf to pool.
Before golf hit the big time, there was more money in gambling than tour
play, just like pool in the 60's and 70's.

I started working in a pro shop when I was 12..my boss came from that
era....good golfers were often known as 'golf bums'..he told me a lot.

Sam Snead made the transition from money player to tournament player
Tim Holland stayed on the action side...he later won the world back-
gammon championship.

Golfers were ready for their big break....
..I'd like to see pool get ready for theirs.[/QUOTE

Back in the days golf, pool, bowling,and tennis were huge gambling games/sports before they made the bigtime. Even semi-pro and pick up games in baseball, football, and basketball were big into gambling. Most baseball games they were playing for a hell of a lot more than a keg of beer on third base. Jam just is way to young to remember. Johnnyt
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Kid Dynomite said:
Calcutta is fun but needs more safety valves and rules. Like one issuing auto refund if a bought player is forfeited!
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This seems reasonable to me... this may be a dense question but why can't this be the policy?
When there's an unexpected forfeit, take the bet back out of the pot and return it to the bettor, no harm no foul.

I'm guessing there must be some way this can be abused? How?
 
CreeDo said:
This seems reasonable to me... this may be a dense question but why can't this be the policy?
When there's an unexpected forfeit, take the bet back out of the pot and return it to the bettor, no harm no foul.

I'm guessing there must be some way this can be abused? How?
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I expect a refund if my player doesn't show for the tournament.

I bought the big favorite to win a tournament once....
...for a pretty low price.....he was from outta town and wasn't there yet.
I neglected to tell anybody that he had called me enroute, and I quietly
paid his entry fee.
He showed up 5 minutes before his match was called, and robbed the field.

Many people called me a bandit that day....
I told them two things they didn't seem to be aware of...
a-if you buy a player and he doesn't show, you get your money back.
b-when I walked wearing a mask..Did you think it was the Lone Ranger?
:cool:
 
JoeyA said:
It does seem a little silly to me if someone thinks the player should have to give the calcutta buyer half of the calcutta buy because the player decided not to play in the match.

HOWEVER, if a player is of the mindset that he may or may not finish the tournament, because he may not be playing well, or because he got knocked into the one loss bracket, or he's not feeling well, or he's tired, or his wife wants him home or he just wants to go home (pick one), then that player should tell the tournament director BEFORE THE CALCUTTA to remove him from the Calcutta list.
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The solution is a side pot and only the player could buy in , if someone wanted to pay their entry in the side pot it would be strictly between the backer and player , any deals gone bad would be their problem. TD would only receive funds and pay funds to player.

The buy in could be in increments, say 100,300 and 500 as examples, if the 1st place player invested 100 and the 3rd place finisher invested 500 , he would more than likely drag more from the pot.I don't have the math skills to figure this out but i'm sure someone who does could figure out payout structure and template and could be used by everyone depending on how many buy in levels you had.

This would save auction time and start tournaments earlier , player would have to find own financing. I doubt there would be as much funding , but i doubt a side pot would be illegal in any jurisdiction since it is essentially an extra voluntary entry fee , whose payout would only be for those who bought in.
 
david(tx) said:
the solution is a side pot and only the player could buy in , if someone wanted to pay their entry in the side pot it would be strictly between the backer and player , any deals gone bad would be their problem. Td would only receive funds and pay funds to player.

The buy in could be in increments, say 100,300 and 500 as examples, if the 1st place player invested 100 and the 3rd place finisher invested 500 , he would more than likely drag more from the pot.i don't have the math skills to figure this out but i'm sure someone who does could figure out payout structure and template and could be used by everyone depending on how many buy in levels you had.

This would save auction time and start tournaments earlier , player would have to find own financing. I doubt there would be as much funding , but i doubt a side pot would be illegal in any jurisdiction since it is essentially an extra voluntary entry fee , whose payout would only be for those who bought in.
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what??????
 
david(tx) said:
If the side pot pays 8 places , and you finish in one of those spots , based on your buy in and order of finish you'll drag out a certain percentage of the side pot money.
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Those are fun, kind of gives you an extra shot at winning something! :)
 
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